Richard Logue Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 How would you give someone else Personal Immunity? Say, for example, you've got a Change Environment effect going on that gives out a few penalties like minus perception and OCV and such. You bought the power, cleverly enough, with Personal Immunity. That covers you, but how about your friends? How can you give them Personal Immunity as well? Another example. In the Babylon 5 episodes where Sheridan, Sinclair, Ivanova, etc, went to hang out on Babylon 4, Zathros gave each of them a time stabilizer to keep them from feeling the effects of the time distor..... I think I may have just figured it out. Naked Modifier (Personal Immunity), Usable On Others. Does that sound right, or no? Something seems amiss with it, especially with trying to plug it into Hero Designer. Set me straight? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRavenIs Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Environment Movement vs the effect in a focus, easy and cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... It depends on what you are Personally Immunitising. If its a small CE (eg an Ice Slick ala SubZero) Environmental Movement would work, in theory. My only caveat would be SFX. For some kind of Star Trek, phase shifter or transporter signal enhancer thats fine. If you are talking about some kind of EB, Explosion or TK Windstorm I would require a naked Personal Immunity, UBO. I guess it really comes down to the utility and how many points its worth. Its a judgement call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRavenIs Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... I agree, I was using what was posted, a Change Environment. If it was a directed attack then the naked mod is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Or make the attack NND and hand your friends the defense, which may not cost any points at all. Green Power Ring -- Big Green Blender (25d6 NND, no range, AoE, defense is wearing a yellow tie). Green Guy: "Ok, before we start this battle, I have these cheap yellow ties I got on sale at Wal-Mart that I want you each to wear..." Feral Boy: *groan* "Not again!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Hmm. How about: Naked Advantage: Usable By Others + Personal Immunity (+3/4); Only for Conferring Personal Immunity (-3/2); Just guessing at the value of the Limitation. Scale to taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... How would you give someone else Personal Immunity? Say, for example, you've got a Change Environment effect going on that gives out a few penalties like minus perception and OCV and such. You bought the power, cleverly enough, with Personal Immunity. That covers you, but how about your friends? How can you give them Personal Immunity as well? Another example. In the Babylon 5 episodes where Sheridan, Sinclair, Ivanova, etc, went to hang out on Babylon 4, Zathros gave each of them a time stabilizer to keep them from feeling the effects of the time distor..... I think I may have just figured it out. Naked Modifier (Personal Immunity), Usable On Others. Does that sound right, or no? Something seems amiss with it, especially with trying to plug it into Hero Designer. Set me straight? Richard Just thinking out loud but... Can you apply Selective(from AOE) to the power? Even if it wasn't originally meant for this, it seems like a very similar circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchman Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... We created an extension of the personal immunity advantage for our fantasy game. It goes something like this: +1/4 Personal Immunity +1/4 Granted Immunity (Yourself and 1 other person) +1/4 2x number of people (including yourself) +1/4 Choose at Casting Example: For a +1 advantage you can grant immunity to 4 people you choose when you activate the power, or for 8 people you choose when you buy the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchman Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Just thinking out loud but... Can you apply Selective(from AOE) to the power? Even if it wasn't originally meant for this, it seems like a very similar circumstance. Yes, you can. Page 250 of ReFred. It becomes a +1/2 advantage for CE, but still well worth it and more elegant than the house rule I've been using. Excuse me, I've got some spells to re-design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... The Selective advantage is definitely the way to go. But this raises another issue in my mind. Say I have a "Zone of Night" Change Environment power that essentially makes it normal darkness and gives everyone -4 visual PER. Okay, now I make it Selective, because it doesn't affect my buddies who have the magic charm I have given them. Now say I have a "Zone of Onions" CE where the effect is the same, but the SFX is that the PER penalty is from watering, tearing eyes, not darkness. Again, me and my pals are not affected because it is Selective and we have our lucky charms. Now what if there is somebody outside the area of affect for the CE who is trying to spot someone in the field (like a sniper trying to off me so the CE ceases). Logically, for the Zone of Night, he should have PER penalties to spot me, but not for the Zone of Onions. So is this just a question of SFX? Is is reasonable to say that the Zone of Night can affect people trying to see into it even though they don't have the magic charm? Did I just try to hijack this thread? Sorry. Any thoughts? ____________________________________________________________ "Some people spread happiness wherever they go. Others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... The Selective advantage is definitely the way to go. But this raises another issue in my mind. Say I have a "Zone of Night" Change Environment power that essentially makes it normal darkness and gives everyone -4 visual PER. Okay, now I make it Selective, because it doesn't affect my buddies who have the magic charm I have given them. Now say I have a "Zone of Onions" CE where the effect is the same, but the SFX is that the PER penalty is from watering, tearing eyes, not darkness. Again, me and my pals are not affected because it is Selective and we have our lucky charms. Now what if there is somebody outside the area of affect for the CE who is trying to spot someone in the field (like a sniper trying to off me so the CE ceases). Logically, for the Zone of Night, he should have PER penalties to spot me, but not for the Zone of Onions. So is this just a question of SFX? Is is reasonable to say that the Zone of Night can affect people trying to see into it even though they don't have the magic charm? Did I just try to hijack this thread? Sorry. Any thoughts? ____________________________________________________________ "Some people spread happiness wherever they go. Others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde Special effect definitely comes into play at times, and this is one I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchman Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... mmm...oinions.... I think I need to go have lunch now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Hmm. How about: Naked Advantage: Usable By Others + Personal Immunity (+3/4); Only for Conferring Personal Immunity (-3/2); Just guessing at the value of the Limitation. Scale to taste. Actually.. since a NA is a Power in and of itself you apply Advantages and Limitations normally: They Won't Catch Us, We're On A Mission From God...: Personal Immunity (+1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of Change Environment Power, Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1) (30 Active Points/30 Real Points) like so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... The Selective advantage is definitely the way to go. But this raises another issue in my mind. Say I have a "Zone of Night" Change Environment power that essentially makes it normal darkness and gives everyone -4 visual PER. Okay, now I make it Selective, because it doesn't affect my buddies who have the magic charm I have given them. Now say I have a "Zone of Onions" CE where the effect is the same, but the SFX is that the PER penalty is from watering, tearing eyes, not darkness. Again, me and my pals are not affected because it is Selective and we have our lucky charms. Now what if there is somebody outside the area of affect for the CE who is trying to spot someone in the field (like a sniper trying to off me so the CE ceases). Logically, for the Zone of Night, he should have PER penalties to spot me, but not for the Zone of Onions. So is this just a question of SFX? Is is reasonable to say that the Zone of Night can affect people trying to see into it even though they don't have the magic charm? Did I just try to hijack this thread? Sorry. Any thoughts? I wouldn't necessarily say Selective is the way to handle this. Remember that a Selective AoE is going to force you to make attack rolls vs. those you still want to affect, so you aren't going to be guaranteed of affecting everyone in the area you haven't excluded. For that particular example, in fact, I would instead buy the Change Environment unaffected, and buy those, "charms," as something like +4 to Per rolls; UBO; Only vs. My Change Environment Penalties (-2). Defenses, extra Str, Still/Characteristic Roll bonuses, etc., could be bought in similar ways for the other aspects of Change Environment (and even for other types of Power). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Actually.. since a NA is a Power in and of itself you apply Advantages and Limitations normally: They Won't Catch Us, We're On A Mission From God...: Personal Immunity (+1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of Change Environment Power, Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1) (30 Active Points/30 Real Points) like so. Yeah, but the idea is that you have to grant them the whole power and Personal Immunity in order for them to be immune to it (not just a Personal Immunity Naked Advantage). After all, unless you have specific GM permission you can't use Personal Immunity to be immune to a power you don't possess. So my solution was to grant them the whole power with Personal Immunity applied, and just restrict its application to only the immunity part of it. Of course, if you already have Personal Immunity on your power, you just use the limited UBO (not both UBO and Personal Immunity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... I wouldn't necessarily say Selective is the way to handle this. Remember that a Selective AoE is going to force you to make attack rolls vs. those you still want to affect, so you aren't going to be guaranteed of affecting everyone in the area you haven't excluded. For that particular example, in fact, I would instead buy the Change Environment unaffected, and buy those, "charms," as something like +4 to Per rolls; UBO; Only vs. My Change Environment Penalties (-2). Defenses, extra Str, Still/Characteristic Roll bonuses, etc., could be bought in similar ways for the other aspects of Change Environment (and even for other types of Power). Okay, upon reflection you are right; the charms are really a separate ability and should be bought as such. If they are only going to work on my own power, then they will be pretty cheap and worth sinking a few points into for the sake of the team. And it may even be cheaper than putting the +½ advantage of Selective on the Change Environment power too. Good call. ______________________________________________________ "Some people spread joy wherever they go. Others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Yeah' date=' but the idea is that you have to grant them the whole power [i']and Personal Immunity[/i] in order for them to be immune to it (not just a Personal Immunity Naked Advantage). After all, unless you have specific GM permission you can't use Personal Immunity to be immune to a power you don't possess. So my solution was to grant them the whole power with Personal Immunity applied, and just restrict its application to only the immunity part of it. Of course, if you already have Personal Immunity on your power, you just use the limited UBO (not both UBO and Personal Immunity). Oh right ... gotcha.. I see what you were doing now. Nevermind me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Now say I have a "Zone of Onions" CE where the effect is the same, but the SFX is that the PER penalty is from watering, tearing eyes, not darkness. Again, me and my pals are not affected because it is Selective and we have our lucky charms. Now what if there is somebody outside the area of affect for the CE who is trying to spot someone in the field (like a sniper trying to off me so the CE ceases). Logically, for the Zone of Night, he should have PER penalties to spot me, but not for the Zone of Onions. So is this just a question of SFX? Is is reasonable to say that the Zone of Night can affect people trying to see into it even though they don't have the magic charm? Did I just try to hijack this thread? Sorry. Any thoughts? Seems like the simplest way to handle this would be to buy the Onion Zone with a Limitation for "Does not affect those outside the AoE looking into the AoE." Which could be a fairly substantial lim, depending on how big the area is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Yeah' date=' but the idea is that you have to grant them the whole power [i']and Personal Immunity[/i] in order for them to be immune to it (not just a Personal Immunity Naked Advantage). After all, unless you have specific GM permission you can't use Personal Immunity to be immune to a power you don't possess. So my solution was to grant them the whole power with Personal Immunity applied, and just restrict its application to only the immunity part of it. Of course, if you already have Personal Immunity on your power, you just use the limited UBO (not both UBO and Personal Immunity). Seems overly complicated to me. I think I'd just ask for dispensation from the GM to allow me to buy Personal Immunity, UOO only to give my teammates against a specific power that *I* have. Seems like a reasonable enough request to me, SFX and campaign permitting, and abuse potential seems minimal. Heck, as a GM the mere thought that a player actually wants to spend points on something to help another PC would be enough to inspire leniency on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... The Selective advantage is definitely the way to go. But this raises another issue in my mind. Say I have a "Zone of Night" Change Environment power that essentially makes it normal darkness and gives everyone -4 visual PER. Okay, now I make it Selective, because it doesn't affect my buddies who have the magic charm I have given them. Now say I have a "Zone of Onions" CE where the effect is the same, but the SFX is that the PER penalty is from watering, tearing eyes, not darkness. Again, me and my pals are not affected because it is Selective and we have our lucky charms. Now what if there is somebody outside the area of affect for the CE who is trying to spot someone in the field (like a sniper trying to off me so the CE ceases). Logically, for the Zone of Night, he should have PER penalties to spot me, but not for the Zone of Onions. So is this just a question of SFX? Is is reasonable to say that the Zone of Night can affect people trying to see into it even though they don't have the magic charm? Did I just try to hijack this thread? Sorry. Any thoughts? going to threadjack for a second here... the problem you're going to encounter in you examples above with Zone of Onions and Zone of Night is that CE does not cause modifiers for those outside the Zone. So your Zone Of Night isn't really a big dark field, but an area where people's eyes are tricked into thinking it is Night/Dark out, as long as they are in the Area of the CE. Outside the area they aren't affected at all by the CE - no matter how you define it. If you wanted PER Modifiers to see into, as well as out of, the Zone what you really wanted was Darkness - not Change Environment. This is the part where you must use the correct Power to model the desired Effect. /threadjack As for the whole Charm issue ... you could also consider placing a Limitation on the initial Power of "Not Vs Those With the Correct Magic Charm" ... and the charm itself is just a thing. Ideally only your friends have the charm, but anyone can pick up/grab the charm and be free of the effects.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... Seems overly complicated to me. I think I'd just ask for dispensation from the GM to allow me to buy Personal Immunity' date=' UOO[/i'] only to give my teammates against a specific power that *I* have. Seems like a reasonable enough request to me, SFX and campaign permitting, and abuse potential seems minimal. Heck, as a GM the mere thought that a player actually wants to spend points on something to help another PC would be enough to inspire leniency on my part. True. However, if the GM weren't completely comfortable with allowing that, my way might be a little more appealing. Eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Re: Personal Immunity: How to... As for the whole Charm issue ... you could also consider placing a Limitation on the initial Power of "Not Vs Those With the Correct Magic Charm" ... and the charm itself is just a thing. Ideally only your friends have the charm' date=' but anyone can pick up/grab the charm and be free of the effects....[/quote'] True. As a GM I would probably rule that as at most a -0 (if not an Advantage) unless the circumstance is going to be reasonably common instead of granting you selective exclusivity 99% of the time, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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