bryanb Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hi Everyone, I just wanted to ask everyone a quick question on how to create a series of powers. Now, the concept is this - the person is a mutant that has certain powers. These powers are enhanced in strength when using different focii (one foci for each). So, originally the powers (say EB, Egoblast and Flash) are built in a multipower. I know want to add the effect of amplifying a powers (adding more dice) when a focus is used, with each power having a different focus. Note that the focus is not required to use the power, it only strengthens it. So how does everyone (anyone?) suggest I go from here? Linked doesn't seem right and I'm kinda stumped... The collective wisdom of the boards is greatly appreciated. ***If someone could advise how to do this in HD it would REALLY help!!*** Daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers As far as HD 3.0 goes, I have no clue (still haven't gotten it yet). But as for building it in HERO, it's easy. Blinding Lights : 6d6 Sight Group Flash, blah blah Ads; blah blah Lims. Glitter Makes It Worse: +3d6 Sight Group Flash, blah blah Ads; blah blah Lims, OIF - jar of glitter (-1/2). Total effect: 9d6 Sight Group Flash. Back in 4th, there was a lot of fun to be had with partially Limited Powers - powers with Disads on only some of the effect. This was very common with Lims like Increased END and Extra Time. FREd makes it a little easier by telling you to build the base of the power, and the differently-limited icing is built seperately and simply called the rest of the power. Take a look in the back of USPD I for Energy Conversion for a great - simple - build in this vein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanb Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Thanks for the quick reply - another question though. The "Gitter Makes it worse" would be built out of the MP...correct? Are there any special restrictions for this? If anyone else knows how to do this in HD it would be a great help! Thanks Daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Right, basically that's it. You could try something like this (Hero Designer, or your GM, may puke on this). Multipower Reserve, X points (m) Slot One (m) Slot Two (m) Slot Three Multipower Reserve, Y points, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) to above multipower. (m) Slot One, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) Slot One above (m) Slot Two, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) Slot Two above (m) Slot Three, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) Slot Three above Note this requires only one Foci (The Thingy). If you have more than one, the reserve of the second multipower proabably qualifies for a -1/4 lim at most. This allows you to use the first multipower, and the second if you have a foci, but you can't use the second by itself, even if you have the foci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Back in 4th' date=' there was a lot of fun to be had with partially Limited Powers - powers with Disads on only some of the effect.[/quote'] Partially limited powers was what I had in mind, too: Assume a 45-point reserve for the Multipower. Going by 4th Edition point costs (because I know that HA levels, at least, have been changed/fixed), I'll model an RKA and a Flash power, each with different Foci. I'll also need to give their Multipower slot cost (real points divided by 5), which I'll abbreviate as MP: Flames of Ra 2d6 RKA (30 AP, 30 RP, 6 MP) Eye of Ra +1d6 RKA (15 AP), Focus: magnifying glass (10 RP, 2 MP) Solar Flare 2d6 Flash: Sight Group (30 AP, 30 RP, 6 MP) Solar Oven +1d6 Flash: Sight Group (20 AP), Focus: mirror (13 RP, 3 MP) Awkward (the math didn't work out exactly, I had to think up mutant powers first and then adjust the MP reserve because Flash had a cost adder and the power concept would affect the entire sight group), but serviceable. Also, the "Oven" part is misnamed, that goes more with a damage power than a blinding power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnston Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers The bonus multipower as a whole would have a focus disadvantage. As for how you do it in HD, what's the problem? You just write down the second half of the multipower in the next slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanb Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Partially limited powers was what I had in mind, too: Assume a 45-point reserve for the Multipower. Going by 4th Edition point costs (because I know that HA levels, at least, have been changed/fixed), I'll model an RKA and a Flash power, each with different Foci. I'll also need to give their Multipower slot cost (real points divided by 5), which I'll abbreviate as MP: Flames of Ra 2d6 RKA (30 AP, 30 RP, 6 MP) Eye of Ra +1d6 RKA (15 AP), Focus: magnifying glass (10 RP, 2 MP) Solar Flare 2d6 Flash: Sight Group (30 AP, 30 RP, 6 MP) Solar Oven +1d6 Flash: Sight Group (20 AP), Focus: mirror (13 RP, 3 MP) Awkward (the math didn't work out exactly, I had to think up mutant powers first and then adjust the MP reserve because Flash had a cost adder and the power concept would affect the entire sight group), but serviceable. Also, the "Oven" part is misnamed, that goes more with a damage power than a blinding power. That's pretty straightforward but....should there be another lim on the booster powers (Eye of Ra and Solar oven)? I say this because the idea would be that if the MP is unable to be used (say...a mutant suppressor field) the additional powers would not be able to be used either? What do you think? Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers That's pretty straightforward but....should there be another lim on the booster powers (Eye of Ra and Solar oven)? I say this because the idea would be that if the MP is unable to be used (say...a mutant suppressor field) the additional powers would not be able to be used either? They would all be classified as "mutant powers", so any "mutant suppressor field" would affect each of them, not just one. The character could hypothetically put their MP points into Flames of Ra and Solar Oven, though, and I'm not sure if that would have any effect. Either the Solar Oven would have no effect because Solar Flare wasn't active, or you would need to introduce some element of randomness and just buy it as a straight Aid (or is it Succor?) to the appropriate power; Aid doesn't let you boost a power you don't have (it explicitly forbids giving the character powers they didn't have, this way). You might be able to take it as a single Aid, in fact, to "any other power inside the Multipower". No, wait; something about the powers inside a framework exceeding their initial build limit strikes me as off about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Multipower Reserve, X points (m) Slot One (m) Slot Two (m) Slot Three Multipower Reserve, Y points, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) to above multipower. (m) Slot One, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) Slot One above (m) Slot Two, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) Slot Two above (m) Slot Three, OIF Thingy (-1/2), Linked (-1/2) Slot Three above That's the way I'd do it, except without the Linked Limitation anywhere. Linked is for powers that must be used with each other, but that do not add to each other. For example, if you buy: EB: 10d6 EB: +3d6; Only When... (-...) the extra dice of EB do not get Linked, but they do form a 13d6 attack rather than a 10d6 attack and a 3d6 attack that apply separately to defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers I agree with Prestidigitator, Lined is not appropriate for this. This simply a Partially Limited Power: Mulipower Pool Xpoints + Ypoints;OAF 1u) Xpoints + Ypoints;OAF 2u) Xpoints + Ypoints;OAF The fact that when it gets built in Hero Designer it's bought as two seperate Pools because HD doesn't have a way of creating Partially Limited Powers easily is simply an artifact of notation. Not Mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers That's the way I'd do it' date=' except without the [i']Linked[/i] Limitation anywhere. Linked is for powers that must be used with each other, but that do not add to each other. For example, ... Ooo, didn't know that, thanks for the catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers So far this thread appears to be a revival of the partially limited multipower and/or mpa threads of the recent past. The proposed partialy limited multipower builds are not legal (by 5er rules, not just HD). However, another approach that might be legal and accomplish the same effect would be to build the focus using an Aid or Succor with standard effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers What's the page reference that dissallow's a partially limited MP Pool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers What's the page reference that dissallow's a partially limited MP Pool? see this post: Re: Partially Limited Multipower Reserve? http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=708243&postcount=6 it states 5er 310 but I don't have my copy handy to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Neither do I, just wanted to know where to look when I got home. Thnx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Right. Technically it becomes legal if you reduce the value of the Limitation instead of only applying it to part of the Power/Framework (e.g., "Loses half effectiveness without OAF (-1/4)"). I find the partial-pool method a lot more appealing aesthetically and mathematically, and see no reason it should be illegal. So there's a rule I just flat out ignore in my campaigns. (Note: the question was how to do it, not how to do it in, "a completely official-rules-legal way.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Hero System also normally allows a pretty fine-grained approach to character building. There's not much difference between 10 PD and 11 PD, but Hero allows you to buy PD in single points. The -1/4 Power Works at Half Effectiveness Without OIF is pretty coarse by contrast. It's half power or nutin'. The partial pool method allows the player to get exactly the limitation they want, and pay for it appropriately. I find most players seem to enjoy getting exactly the character they want. Its one of the strengths of the Hero System, and something most people seem to enjoy very much. I liken it to the character creation system in City of Heroes. If the partial pool method is illegal, I'd like to see Steve officially recognize it and bless it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers ...snip... (Note: the question was how to do it, not how to do it in, "a completely official-rules-legal way.") so whose rules are we discussing here then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers A completely Rules Method: Buy the Multipower Pool to the max AP of the powers when used full strength. Buy each slot as a Partially Limited Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers so whose rules are we discussing here then? Hero System rules. That doesn't necesarily mean, "official," cannon. It is somewhere between that and a loose toolkit approach, as always. Welcome to the Hero Games Forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers see this post: Re: Partially Limited Multipower Reserve? http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=708243&postcount=6 it states 5er 310 but I don't have my copy handy to confirm. Paraphrasing (because I don't want to get in trouble for quoting too much) the only bit on p. 310 that mentions anything about this is the first "example" under the No Combining Of Frameworks subsection of General Rules, which says (roughly): You can't have a slot in a Framework that adds to another slot in the same or another Framework. Technically, we don't want that. We want a Partially Limited Power, with which Hero Designer has issues, but is doable if you're willing to visualize creatively. Simply build the power in question as a Compound Power, with the extra focus-requiring-power as next power in the build. When it comes time to print out your sheet, bring it up as an alterable file, and go through adding "+" signs. It's even easier if you're doing this by pencil. Just build the focusless power as normal, then say plus and put the focused power; maybe point out the full effect on the next line for ease of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers The problem with that aproach is that as soon as you say that a multipower of reserve active points of A' + B' with all slots constructed with compound power A + B where reserve B' and power B have a common limitation and power A is usable by itself without the limitation you have, in fact, created 2 different multipowers and thus violated the quoted rule. I am not saying I totally agree with this rule. I am just pointing out what the rule currently is. I used to think that one way around this was possible via Variable Limitation but recently discovered that this Limitation is not allowed on a Multipower Reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Start by designing the basic Multipower, without the Focus enhancements. The enhancements could then be done as an Aid, with enough Variable Effect to increase the Reserve and all of the Slots simultaneously, or just the slots if the Reserve is already bigger. In the Focus description, there's a section on Multiple Foci. In a nutshell, if a Power requires more than one Focus, but operates at reduced effectiveness if only some of the Foci are lost, the value of the Limitation is reduced by -1/4. So if you had a 4 Slot Multipower and 5 OAFs, one for each slot and one for the Reserve, it would be a -3/4 Limitation on the Aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiree Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers How about just building the Focus with Aid with the various limitations you want to add to it. This should be legal, and very straight forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Re: How do I build: Foci enhanced powers Yep, I mentioned this earlier as well. see post # 12 http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1080586&postcount=12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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