No damage from falling

[Robyn]

The recent threads on Desolidification and variants thereof have led me to resurrect a power idea I once asked McCoy about; it was a very expensive build.

 

This is a build challenge - how few points can you use to create a power that will ensure the character never takes damage from falling?

 

Assume that FrED's "30 inches" for terminal velocity is an effective limiter on the "from any height" variable.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Since the HERO system does not include terminal velocity

Yes it does. Terminal velocity is 30" per Segment, and (for falls of 11" or longer) it causes 1d6 normal physical damage per 1"/Segment of velocity. (5ER, page 434) So a fall at terminal velocity does 30d6 physical normal damage.

 

So to be absolutely certain you never took any damage from Falling (not even STUN damage), you'd need 180 PD, Only vs. Falling Damage (-2), for 60 points.

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Yes it does. Terminal velocity is 30" per Segment' date=' and (for falls of 11" or longer) it causes 1d6 normal physical damage per 1"/Segment of velocity. (5ER, page 434)[/quote']

 

Well. 4th Edition does not have any rules on terminal velocity

 

(I checked. Pages 175 & 176.)

 

edit: original post's wording preserved here for posterity:

 

Since the HERO system does not include terminal velocity, assume that the vertical range of Earth's atmosphere is an effective limiter on the "from any height" variable. Assume, also, that the gravity is Earthlike, providing for an acceleration then movement each Segment of +5".

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

So to be absolutely certain you never took any damage from Falling (not even STUN damage)' date=' you'd need 180 PD, Only vs. Falling Damage (-2), for 60 points.[/quote']

 

I should mention that the previous build was Superleap with -1 for "only falling/landings".

 

This would be 30 Active Points in the Superleap, 15 Real Points?

[Dr.Device]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Stop! Teleportation 1", No Relative Velocity, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; (When about to hit the ground at greater than 1" velocity); +1) (30 Active Points)

 

and if you want to be absolutely sure you know it's coming:

 

There it Is Detect The Ground 13- (Unusual Group), Range, Sense (10 Active Points); Only for Trigger (-1)

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

1 Flight 1", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (4 Active Points); Only to prevent falling (-2)

 

You'll have to voluntarily turn it off to go down stairs or use an elevator, but you'll never, ever fall.

 

You can still take downward KB or be thrown down, but then that's not exactly falling.

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Stop! Teleportation 1", No Relative Velocity, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; (When about to hit the ground at greater than 1" velocity); +1) (30 Active Points)

 

and if you want to be absolutely sure you know it's coming:

 

There it Is Detect The Ground 13- (Unusual Group), Range, Sense (10 Active Points); Only for Trigger (-1)

Beat me to it! I was going to add:

Side Effects: Character goes prone unless a Breakfall roll based on the initial fall succeeds (-0)

BTW: I don't think the Detect is at all necessary. The character doesn't usually have to (be able to) perceive the Trigger condition; it just has to be generally detectable with normal senses.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Silly me... I assumed you wanted a way to eliminate the damage from a falling impact... not prevent the impact itself.

 

If you *did* keep going the defense route, you could effectly be immune to it (taking no more than a handful of STUN even from terminal falls) for way less than 60 points even.

 

45 PD (only vs. falling damage; -2) for 15 points will prevent the BODY damage (the odds of rolling more than 45 BODY on 30 dice are pretty astronomical). Then add 75% Physical Damage Reduction (only vs. falling damage; -2) for 13 points to eliminate most of the STUN.

 

For 28 points, you'd only take 15 STUN from a fall at terminal velocity (less, once you factor in your other defenses).

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Well. 4th Edition does not have any rules on terminal velocity

 

(I checked. Pages 175 & 176.)

Well, yeah, really it did. If you look at the table on page 175, you'll note that the Current Velocity never goes above 30". They just forgot to explicity say in the text, "Oh by the way, velocity tops out at 30" per Segment." You have to deduce it for yourself from the table.

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Well, everything might have to be Resistant for the cases where falling damage is considered a Killing Attack (landing on particular terrain/objects).

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Silly me... I assumed you wanted a way to eliminate the damage from a falling impact... not prevent the impact itself.

 

I'm pretty sure Superleap doesn't prevent the impact.

[Dr.Device]

Re: No damage from falling

 

BTW: I don't think the Detect is at all necessary. The character doesn't usually have to (be able to) perceive the Trigger condition; it just has to be generally detectable with normal senses.

 

You're probably right. I was just considering cases like falling into a darkness field or similar.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Why not:

 

Always Land Gently As A Feather: Gliding, 1", Only To Slow Falls To The Point Of No Damage On Impact (-1)

 

1 point.

[fwcain]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Why not:

 

Always Land Gently As A Feather: Gliding, 1", Only To Slow Falls To The Point Of No Damage On Impact (-1)

 

1 point.

Because Gliding and Flight, when used to "go upwards," just reduce your downward velocity by an amount equal to the combat move. So, your power write-up would knock off -1" from the 30" terminal velocity.

 

Even worse, falling occurs -EVERY SEGMENT-, while this power write-up works only on your Phase.

 

Now, if you bumped it up to a full 30" of Gliding (not just 1"), that should do the trick...

 

Franklin

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I think the PD (and/or DamRed) is the way to go as the only passive option. I'm thinking, when you really need this more than any other time? When your unconscious body is being tossed from a plane.

 

 

 

 

Or something similar. Happens to me all the time.

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Because Gliding and Flight, when used to "go upwards," just reduce your downward velocity by an amount equal to the combat move. So, your power write-up would knock off -1" from the 30" terminal velocity.

 

Even worse, falling occurs -EVERY SEGMENT-, while this power write-up works only on your Phase.

 

Now, if you bumped it up to a full 30" of Gliding (not just 1"), that should do the trick...

 

Franklin

Right. You'd have to use your Turn Mode to steer your fall away from vertical instead.

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Because Gliding and Flight, when used to "go upwards," just reduce your downward velocity by an amount equal to the combat move. So, your power write-up would knock off -1" from the 30" terminal velocity.

 

Even worse, falling occurs -EVERY SEGMENT-, while this power write-up works only on your Phase.

 

Now, if you bumped it up to a full 30" of Gliding (not just 1"), that should do the trick...

 

Franklin

 

If you turn on Doc's Gliding power at the start of a fall, you'll never reach terminal velocity. Falling every segment is no more a factor for someone gilding this way than any other gliding character.

 

My 1" 0 End Persistant Flight never even needs to be be turned on unless you voluntarily turn it off. You'll be physically incapable of falling at all.

 

If you wait until you're an instant from hitting the ground, you'll need 60" of movement, not 30", as upward movement is halved. The 1" Teleport with zero momentum build would work fine, as would a massive PD build.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I think the PD (and/or DamRed) is the way to go as the only passive option. I'm thinking' date=' when you really need this more than any other time? When your unconscious body is being tossed from a plane. [/quote']

 

If the power is on a Trigger, that would do the trick. A Triggered power can go off even if the character who initiated it is no longer conscious.

 

The bigger question is whether it should cost only a few points to negate falling damage. For myself, I have no problem with this being an inexpensive ability. It's negating environmental damage only, and Life Support makes megating most forms of environmental damage fairly inexpensive. So I'd allow an inexpensive build in any game where I would have allowed Life Support to other environmental extremes.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I think Robyn started this thread in response to some of the quirks regarding desolidification brought up in another recent thread.

 

Currently, 5er allows a Plastic-Man/Mr. Fantastic type character to use the power to simulate a malleable body:

5er page 148, last paragraph:

Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects

(-1/2): This Limitation represents a form of Desolidification that does not provide true intangibility; it simulates mist form powers, malleable bodies, and similar abilities. The character can squeeze through very tiny openings, but cannot actually pass through physical objects.

He's still immune from damage

as per standard Desolidification (though many powers with this Limitation also take the

Does Not Protect Against Damage

Limitation).

However, Mr. Long has ruled that this immunity does not apply to damage from falling and hitting the ground. And it is my opinion that the ruling is points based only.

 

How does this ruling figure in with anyone else's use of Desol as a type of Invulnerability?

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Why not:

 

Always Land Gently As A Feather: Gliding, 1", Only To Slow Falls To The Point Of No Damage On Impact (-1)

 

1 point.

 

Rep for going after the cheapest possible build. But, if I'm not incorrect, this would cause the character to fall at 1" until they hit the ground. This looks more like "Levitation, downward only, Uncontrolled/Triggered (only when not supported by any solid objects)" than falling. It also looks very different to the character and any observers, and seriously affects movement speed: what's the point of diving off a rooftop to elude pursuers by being able to get up and walk away before they can take the elevator/stairs down, if they can hop off and hold on to you or just take aim and fire as you float on your leisurely way down?

 

I know that the power will need to have Visible Power Effects, but let me add a caveat to that: only visible at the ground floor. The "fall" itself is normal, it's that impact at the end which the character needs to walk away from.

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

How does this ruling figure in with anyone else's use of Desol as a type of Invulnerability?

 

I think Steve has changed his mind again, as he did on several other 5thED constructs. He may want Desolid as Invulnerability gone.

 

In my own campaigns, if you're Desolid and hit the ground, you'll keep going, unless limits or SFX suggest otherwise. If you have Desolid based Invulnerability, you'll take no damage. If and when Steve splits the Damage Protection and Movement aspects of Desolid, I'll follow the new price structure.

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I know that the power will need to have Visible Power Effects, but let me add a caveat to that: only visible at the ground floor. The "fall" itself is normal, it's that impact at the end which the character needs to walk away from.

 

Then you're back to the Teleport build, or 60" of Superleap, both on a trigger, both limited to toping the momentum of a fall. You'll end up paying 30 or so points, give or take.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: No damage from falling

 

If you turn on Doc's Gliding power at the start of a fall' date=' you'll never reach terminal velocity. Falling every segment is no more a factor for someone gilding this way than any other gliding character.[/quote']

That was EXACTLY what I had in mind... never having the chance to build up the velocity in the first place, but you're still going DOWN no matter what.

 

Thanks for pointing out what I forgot to state, OddHat!

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Then you're back to the Teleport build' date=' or 60" of Superleap,[/quote']

 

Hmm? Why 60" of Superleap?

 

Thanks to everyone for their contributions so far!

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Hmm? Why 60" of Superleap?

 

Thanks to everyone for their contributions so far!

 

Upward movement is halved. To cancel 30" of downward velocity takes 60" of upward movement.