Superfluous Powers

[Mike W]

Re: Superfluous Powers

 

If someone thinks Armor is superfluous, what does that make Force Field?

 

While it's true that Gliding and Swinging could be built as variations on Flight (and who says they can't hover? What do you think Spiderman is doing when he's just "hanging around?") it's also true that ALL the movement powers could be covered by a supergeneric "Movement" power, or even that Running and the rest could be folded into Flight with various advantages and limits.

 

But my nomination for power that would cause the biggest uproar if removed, but that would not have been missed if it had never been there, are the Killing Attacks.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thought I was going to say Desolidification!

 

The Spiderman example is pretty weak. He can't hover without something to hang onto, so it isn't really hovering. Heck, he doesn't even need a power to that, really. You could just find a gymnast, hand him a rope and tell him to tie it off of a streetlight and hang onto it. And sorry, but gliders can't hover. Hovering means you aren't moving at all. If a glider stops moving, it falls. It has to move according to wind currents if nothing else,you might be able to maintain a tight circle, but you can't just stop and hover over the same couple feet of turf for an hour, like you could with flight.

[David Johnston]

Re: Superfluous Powers

 

The Spiderman example is pretty weak. He can't hover without something to hang onto' date=' so it isn't really hovering. Heck, he doesn't even need a power to that, really. You could just find a gymnast, hand him a rope and tell him to tie it off of a streetlight and hang onto it. [/quote']

 

Yes, but then his "flight" would have been bought with the limitation that he can't go higher than the highest nearby object. While you could hand a gymnast a rope, the thing about Spider-Man is that he can have a rope at will wherever he wants one. That's what makes it a power, not a skill.

[Lucius]

Re: Super (fluous) Powers

 

The Spiderman example is pretty weak. He can't hover without something to hang onto' date=' so it isn't really hovering. Heck, he doesn't even need a power to that, really. You could just find a gymnast, hand him a rope and tell him to tie it off of a streetlight and hang onto it. And sorry, but gliders can't hover. Hovering means you aren't moving at all. If a glider stops moving, it falls. It has to move according to wind currents if nothing else,you might be able to maintain a tight circle, but you can't just stop and hover over the same couple feet of turf for an hour, like you could with flight.[/quote']

 

Are we talking about gliders, or about the Hero power of Gliding?

 

An airplane also can’t just “hover over the same couple feet of turf for an hour†– does that mean that what an airplane has isn’t “Flight?â€

 

And if Spiderman isn’t really hovering because he’s hanging onto something, then he isn’t really flying when he swings on the same something.

 

Yes' date=' but then his "flight" would have been bought with the limitation that he can't go higher than the highest nearby object. While you could hand a gymnast a rope, the thing about Spider-Man is that he can have a rope at will wherever he wants one. That's what makes it a power, not a skill.[/quote']

 

So if Captain Blood starts carrying a rope and grapnel around with him, he has a power now?

 

Remember, Spiderman's "ropes" also come through what in Hero terms is called a "focus." It's equipment. So if that makes it a power, not a skill, then every adventurer who ever carried a rope around has a power.

 

 

I do agree completely of course; I was just being a twit

 

That’s okay; I’m often worse. But you know that.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary admits this is all fascinating, but reminds me I have a schedule to keep

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Super (fluous) Powers

 

Absolutely! But none of those are mutant are they?

 

No, they are different "super powers" which appeared in the Pulps, but weren't called "super powers" until the comics started using that term. I suspect if one went through the Sci Fi pulp stories, one would find some mutant powers predating the comics as well, but I've never read much in the way of pulp sci fi. It's all in the nomenclature.

 

Did mutant super powers begin with the X-Men? That was where they were first CALLED mutant super powers, but Captain Comet was a mutant (a man born with the capabilities of a human advanced many thousands of years) in the 1950's, and Namor's winged feet, a trait possessed by neither side of his hybrid heritage, were also a mutant power, despite not being named as such until the early X-Men comics.

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Super (fluous) Powers

 

Are we talking about gliders' date=' or about the Hero power of Gliding?[/left']

 

An airplane also can’t just “hover over the same couple feet of turf for an hour†– does that mean that what an airplane has isn’t “Flight?â€

*SNIP*

 

They do have flight, but they also have a limitation that gives them a stall velocity and a minimum movement requirements.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Super (fluous) Powers

 

So if Captain Blood starts carrying a rope and grapnel around with him' date=' he has a power now?[/quote']

If he's in a game where you have to pay points for equipment, then yes he probably does. Forgive the smart*** answer, but my point is it depends on the genre. In a Pirate Hero game (Arrrrr!) it's probably assumed most characters can swing from ships' rigging and the like, so it's probably best handled as a skill; but then the players have to accept it when the GM periodically puts them in an environment where there's nothing to swing from. For a Champions character, Swinging may be his primary mode of travel, and if the player paid points for it there is an assumption he will be able to use that Power more often than not.

 

Also, the swashbuckling sort of swinging from rigging or chandeliers and so forth is generally a single move event -- "I swing across to the other ship" or "I swing down and grab the princess" -- rather than a true mode of transportation the way Spider-Man and Tarzan use it to get across town/jungle/whatever.

 

They do have flight' date=' but they also have a limitation that gives them a stall velocity and a minimum movement requirements.[/quote']

Exactly - Flight with Limitations. So why couldn't you build Gliding the same way?

 

If you think about it, there are really two components of flying: levitation, the ability to go up; and locomotion, the ability to move forward while in the air. Most forms of Flight have both, of course. But a wizard's spell (or a sci-fi counter-grav sled) that lifts heavy objects but must be pushed or towed thru the air is an example of levitation without locomotion. Gliding is to some extent an example of locomotion without levitation. Different enough to justify a seperate power? :shrug: It probably wouldn't have occurred to me to split it out if I was starting from scratch, but it works fine the way it is.

[David Johnston]

Re: Super (fluous) Powers

 

 

So if Captain Blood starts carrying a rope and grapnel around with him, he has a power now?

 

In the same sense that his sword is a power, yes. But of course Blood didn't do that.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Super (fluous) Powers

 

Exactly - Flight with Limitations. So why couldn't you build Gliding the same way?

 

If you think about it, there are really two components of flying: levitation, the ability to go up; and locomotion, the ability to move forward while in the air. Most forms of Flight have both, of course. But a wizard's spell (or a sci-fi counter-grav sled) that lifts heavy objects but must be pushed or towed thru the air is an example of levitation without locomotion. Gliding is to some extent an example of locomotion without levitation. Different enough to justify a seperate power? :shrug: It probably wouldn't have occurred to me to split it out if I was starting from scratch, but it works fine the way it is.

 

At one point, I tried to figure out the Metapower: Move. Taking all the common movement powers and going backwards to figure out the unoffical Advantages and Limitations.

 

Move costs

1/2 point for 1" of really limited movement (Surface Swimming, Power Line Surfing)

or 1 point for 1" for limited movement (Swimming, Leaping, Gliding, Swinging)

or 2 points for 1" for any other type of movement (Teleport, Tunnelling, Flight, Running)

 

Between Variable Advantage, Megascale and (Movement Power) Usable as (Second Movement Power), I'm a fairly happy camper.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Superfluous Powers

 

Hmm. Tunneling costs 5 points per hex of movement.

[Lxndr]

Re: Superfluous Powers

 

Nah. Tunneling costs 5 points for +1" AND +1 DEF. Extra DEF for your tunnelling is 3 points, so you can backform that extra inches are 2" each, if you were allowed to buy them separately (which you're not, at the moment).

[Lxndr]

Re: Superfluous Powers

 

Any reason we can't just add the adder to Armor?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if powers should have subtractors as well as adders...

 

Examples in the book suggest 'no', probably to keep Active Point costs relatively high. Look at Invisibility - No Fringe is a flat adder, while its opposite, Bright Fringe, is a limitation. Entangle works similarly - you can buy extra DEF or BODY as adders, but 'only one BODY' is a limitation.

[Gary]

Re: Superfluous Powers

 

If you want to protect carried items with Armor, it should probably cost 15 pts instead of 10 since it costs no End whereas the FF version costs End.

[Mike W]

Re: Super (fluous) Powers

 

Are we talking about gliders, or about the Hero power of Gliding?

 

 

I'd say both.

[Mike W]

Re: Superfluous Powers

 

Yes' date=' but then his "flight" would have been bought with the limitation that he can't go higher than the highest nearby object. While you could hand a gymnast a rope, the thing about Spider-Man is that he can have a rope at will wherever he wants one. That's what makes it a power, not a skill.[/quote']

 

Yes, but I still don't see it as Flight with a height limit. Swinging requires anchors. Swinging limits what paths you can take, where you can go, and so on. After all, if it's just a height limit, I can use Swinging in the middle of an open field where I don't have anything taller than grass for miles around...except that I can't. My ability to use the power, including where I can go, what I can do with it, and so on, is entirely based on environment. It's not practical(at best) to use in a crowded hallway. Even an empty one, my maneuvarability is very limited. So much so that I might as well walk because even if I can anchor to something, there isn't enough room for me to get anywhere close to a full swing in a hallway/room with normal 10 foot ceilings, at least not if I have enough to make it a realistic mode of travel(say 10-15 inches). That's a lot more than just a height limit.