Costing extra END

[Doc Democracy]

This power comes at it from a different direction; it drains END -- the idea being it makes people weigh so much they get exhausted, and start burning STUN if they go low enough; eventually people get to where they knock themselves out even just moving around unless they have 0 END abilities:

 

10u 6) Micronic Mass Multiplier: Drain END 5d6 (standard effect: 15 points), STR, DEX, STUN, or END one at a time (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2) (100 Active Points) (uses END Reserve) 10

 

Interesting take on a gravity power but as Souljourner said, might be a bit far from special effect to game effect for some.

 

I was wondering if many people had attempted to make things cost more END for people - whether in areas of high gravity or due to disease or whatever. How did you go about making someone spend more END to do what they wanted.

 

The problem with KS's power is that you get drained the same whether you are lying down or pushing your running. I'm thinking of instances where if you want to spend 2 END it costs you 4 or 6 or whatever and if would nromally spend 10 then it might cost you 20.

 

I was thinking of Change Environment - increased END cost....

 

Any other ideas?

 

 

Doc

[Manic Typist]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Transform... Power into Power with Extra END cost?

 

Can you Transform someone's Power?

 

I think perhaps this is one of those things you shouldn't delve into too deeply...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Drain End, Only to Double/Triple/Whatever Cost of Target's Powers (-1/2)

 

Keep track of how much you've actually Drained, but this amount doesn't get immediately subtracted from the target's End Characteristic. Instead, as soon as they use a Power (including Str and movement, of course) that costs X End, it, "costs," them 2X End (provided you have Drained at least X End more than the target has already been affected by the Drain).

 

For example:

Moodo has 30 End. You Drain him for 14 End on your Phase in Segment 3, but his End stays at 30. On his Phase in Segment 4, Moodo uses a power that would normally cost 4 End, but at this time you apply some of the End you Drained as well, so he goes to 22 End (and you have 10 End left to apply to him).

 

You do something else for your Segment 6 Phase, and in Moodo's Segment 8 Phase he uses a power that normally costs a whopping 11 End. At this time you apply the rest of your Drain to him (and you don't have enough to quite double the End cost), so he loses 21 End. Moodo's now down to 1 End and needs a Recovery very badly.

The tricky part is that the Drain is still going to Fade, so I'd say buy down the Fade Rate a little (from a Turn to a Minute would probably work just fine) and then apply a Limitation, "Can be Restored by Target's Rec (-1)."

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Transform... Power into Power with Extra END cost?

 

Can you Transform someone's Power?

No, but you can Transform a character. From a strictly rules-legal standpoint, Transform might indeed be the way to go. Transform character-with-power into character-with-power-that-costs-more-END. As a GM, I'd probably rule that to be a Minor Transform to make it 2x or 3x END, or a Major Transform to make it anything higher than that.

 

 

A slightly wonkier way to go might be Aid-with-a-Limitation. You want their Energy Blast to cost 2x END? Just Aid their EB enough to double its dice, but with the Limitation that the added dice don't do damage...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Drain End, Only to Double/Triple/Whatever Cost of Target's Powers (-1/2)

 

Keep track of how much you've actually Drained, but this amount doesn't get immediately subtracted from the target's End Characteristic. Instead, as soon as they use a Power (including Str and movement, of course) that costs X End, it, "costs," them 2X End (provided you have Drained at least X End more than the target has already been affected by the Drain).

 

For example:

Moodo has 30 End. You Drain him for 14 End on your Phase in Segment 3, but his End stays at 30. On his Phase in Segment 4, Moodo uses a power that would normally cost 4 End, but at this time you apply some of the End you Drained as well, so he goes to 22 End (and you have 10 End left to apply to him).

 

You do something else for your Segment 6 Phase, and in Moodo's Segment 8 Phase he uses a power that normally costs a whopping 11 End. At this time you apply the rest of your Drain to him (and you don't have enough to quite double the End cost), so he loses 21 End. Moodo's now down to 1 End and needs a Recovery very badly.

 

That's the way I was thinking of dealing with it; but see below.

 

 

The tricky part is that the Drain is still going to Fade' date=' so I'd say buy down the Fade Rate a little (from a Turn to a Minute would probably work just fine) and then apply a Limitation, "Can be Restored by Target's Rec (-1)."[/quote']

 

Instead of that, how about buying it with a resetting Trigger, so that it doesn't "go off" until the victim starts burning END, but goes off each time he does so?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Instead of that' date=' how about buying it with a resetting Trigger, so that it doesn't "go off" until the victim starts burning END, but goes off each time he does so?[/quote']

I suppose you might be able to do that. It would probably require a custom Detect for the Trigger and such. I'd considered it, but thought maybe the above solution would be simpler. Either way.

[Checkmate]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Actually this has just as many problems as KS' build. I mean if I'm laying down and shoot an energy blast out of my eyes, why would gravity increase the END cost?

 

The way I would describe the power is that when you increase the gravity, any movement, heck even breathing is a chore. Looked at from this perspective, KS' build does work.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Costing extra END

 

I was thinking of Change Environment - increased END cost....

I think that's how I'd be inclined to do it. Simpler. But it may require more handwavium than many people are comfortable with. Not sure how much I'd make it cost, tho.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Costing extra END

 

What about a suppresion on the target's END cutting it in half?

[gojira]

Re: Costing extra END

 

The suppress is a good idea, but it assumes that they have the Reduced END advantage. If they have none, then the Suppress has no effect. Maybe that's what you want?

 

I was thinking Drain, with the SFX that the Drained points increase the END cost.

 

Let's say Fire Guy has a 10d6 EB (Fire attack), for 50 points. The Fatiguer drains Fire Guy's EB for 18 points, leaving Fire Guy with 32 points in his EB. Since x2 END Cost is a +1/2 Lim that would make a 50 Active Point power cost 32 points, Fire Guy now has a 2xEND cost on his fire attack.

 

In other words, Fire Guy now has 10d6 EB (Fire attack), 2x END, for 32 points. As GM, I'd probably rule that The Fatiguer has to do a full 18 point drain before there's any adverse effect (ruling in favor of the player, Fire Guy, in other words. I dunno if I'd let a player take a power that increased the GMs calculations during combat. )

 

Just a thought, as I didn't see anyone else mention it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Costing extra END

 

What about a suppresion on the target's END cutting it in half?

Actually one of the common ways I have modeled making things more tiring (like increasing End Costs) is to Suppress or Drain their Recovery. It works quite well.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Actually this has just as many problems as KS' build. I mean if I'm laying down and shoot an energy blast out of my eyes, why would gravity increase the END cost?

 

The way I would describe the power is that when you increase the gravity, any movement, heck even breathing is a chore. Looked at from this perspective, KS' build does work.

One can easily Limit it to only applying vs. movement and Str, or physical actions, or whatever. That's no big deal to me. In some games (mostly heroic ones), Draining Str might even accomplish this by causing characters to become Encumbered due to their already present load of equipment.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Costing extra END

 

I was thinking of Change Environment - increased END cost....

I'd treat it sort of like STR pressing down on the area. You need a certain amount of STR to remain standing. In ordinary gravity, standing costs 0 END. In 2g, you need 10 STR (1 END) to stand, and I'd say 0 END to sit, lay, or be on hands and knees. At higher gravities, you might need to use STR, just to sit up. And it's actual STR used, not END, so if you only have 10 STR, but you need 15, you have to push for 5 and spend the END to do so.

 

A slightly wonkier way to go might be Aid-with-a-Limitation. You want their Energy Blast to cost 2x END? Just Aid their EB enough to double its dice' date=' but with the Limitation that the added dice don't do damage... [/quote']

How 'bout doing this as a Drain, but instead of taking away active points, it adds on the Increased END Limitation. Sort of like taking away real points. For example, if a 60 point power was Drained down to 40, it would still be a 12d6 EB, only now it costs 2x END. If you Drain it down to 30, it's 3x END, etc. Wierd, I'll admit, but it might work.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Costing extra END

 

How 'bout doing this as a Drain' date=' but instead of taking away active points, it adds on the Increased END Limitation. Sort of like taking away real points. For example, if a 60 point power was Drained down to 40, it would still be a 12d6 EB, only now it costs 2x END. If you Drain it down to 30, it's 3x END, etc. Wierd, I'll admit, but it might work.[/quote']I think this is the best build so far!

[Phil]

Re: Costing extra END

 

I think this is the best build so far!

 

Agreed. Rather than an Aid (Naked Advantage), it's a Drain (Naked Limitation). Like it a VERY lot.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Costing extra END

 

VERY bad grammar Phil, I excoriate you!

 

It is the simplest build but it affects one attack at a time - unless it happens to be in an EC.

 

I think that an attack that made everything you do cost more END it would be an expensive one - as has been pointed out some SFX require less than others. High Gravity would require any use of STR to be more expensive but blasting someone with an optic beam probably should not. A debilitating disease however might require everything to cost more END.

 

I liked the reduced REC idea as that means the character gets more tired more quickly as the END use isn't replaced as well as it was designed to. I also liked the (simple) idea of halving END - that means that the same END usage is more likely to lead to exhaustion and the burning of STUN.

 

 

Doc

[Phil]

Re: Costing extra END

 

It is the simplest build but it affects one attack at a time - unless it happens to be in an EC.

 

Can you not Drain everything, just as you can Aid everything? Seems like you ought to be able to, but I cant recall off the top of my head.

[schir1964]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Can you not Drain everything' date=' just as you can Aid everything? Seems like you ought to be able to, but I cant recall off the top of my head.[/quote']

Yes you can. It's an advantage listed under the section on Adjustment Powers.

 

It's a +2 Advantage.

 

- Christopher Mulins

[prestidigitator]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Yes you can. It's an advantage listed under the section on Adjustment Powers.

 

It's a +2 Advantage.

I suspect what he meant was, "Can you Drain any power?" To which the answer is really: for the most part, but there are some specific exemptions such as powers with the Inherent Advantage and Senses (which you are supposed to Flash or affect with Sense-Affecting Powers such as Darkness and Images, not Drain directly).

 

And the +2 Advantage really means all characteristics/powers fitting a given Special Effect, which usually doesn't mean everything, though in some cases it might cover a lot.

 

EDIT: Oh. NM. Looking at the post to which he was responding, I guess my first paragraph probably doesn't apply, but the second one might still be relevant.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Costing extra END

 

And the +2 Advantage really means all characteristics/powers fitting a given Special Effect' date=' which usually doesn't mean [i']everything[/i], though in some cases it might cover a lot. .

In this context, the relevant sfx might be "STR-related powers"?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Costing extra END

 

In this context' date=' the relevant sfx might be "STR-related powers"?[/quote']

Yeah, could be. Or, "physically involved powers," or, "tiring powers," or something. I don't know. It could be made to work.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Would Telekinesis fall under "STR-related powers" in the same manner as a bodybuilder's muscles or a battlesuit's servos would?

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Costing extra END

 

Would Telekinesis fall under "STR-related powers" in the same manner as a bodybuilder's muscles or a battlesuit's servos would?

Depends on the sfx (obviously), but in general I would think so. Assuming the target of the TK is inside the AOE of the Drain (whether or not the user is).

[The Souljourner]

Re: Costing extra END

 

How 'bout doing this as a Drain' date=' but instead of taking away active points, it adds on the Increased END Limitation. Sort of like taking away real points. For example, if a 60 point power was Drained down to 40, it would still be a 12d6 EB, only now it costs 2x END. If you Drain it down to 30, it's 3x END, etc. Wierd, I'll admit, but it might work.[/quote']

 

Brilliant! I love it. I was trying to figure out how to do this, I was thinking something along the lines of an inverse UAA Naked Advantage, but this is so much simpler. I may have to yoink this for a character in the future

 

-Nate

[Checkmate]

Re: Costing extra END

 

How 'bout doing this as a Drain, but instead of taking away active points, it adds on the Increased END Limitation. Sort of like taking away real points. For example, if a 60 point power was Drained down to 40, it would still be a 12d6 EB, only now it costs 2x END. If you Drain it down to 30, it's 3x END, etc. Wierd, I'll admit, but it might work.

I have to agree this is an awsome build. I don't particularly care for it for the gravity effect, but it has some definate possiblities.