Dealing with Anachronism

[Savinien]

First off, I'm at work and don't have my Pulp Hero book with me (Thanks, Kenn for that idea). Regardelss I've had a derth of good conversations on this forum recently so a question might stir something up.

 

When did scientists first start using 'waldos'? I'm not talking about the robotic ones of course. What I'm really asking, when did the glass case with rubber gloves inside come to popularity within the American lab?

 

Where would I search to find out?

[OddHat]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

Had to be somewhere in or past the early 1940s. The name "Waldoes" comes from a 1940 Robert Heinlein story, and I've heard him credited as their inventor from a couple of sources (who may have been citing each other, so that proves nothing in and of itself).

[Savinien]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

Thanks, Oddhat.

 

I ended up answering myself, though! They are called GLOVE BOXES. From the source I found, they did indeed start being used in 1940 when the use of hazardous radioactive materials became more of the norm. it isn't beyond the scope of belief that a mad-scientist somewhere might have a GLOVE BOX, but I don't think they were found in the common University.

 

So, now what do you do? You propose a situation/puzzle and a player states heading to the University to use the Glove Box to solve the puzzle without danger.

 

The player is interacting with the environment and the world in a way a GM hopes, but his knowledge of the era or that particular, tiny piece of it is faulty. How do you adjudicate this?

[OddHat]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

If the University doesn't have a "Glove Box", they look at him funny as he describes it. If he has the appropriate skills, they call him a genius, and his building of the worlds first Glove Box at that University becomes part of your campaign back story.

 

Or, you tell him "No". But letting him invent the thing is more fun.

[Savinien]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

If the University doesn't have a "Glove Box", they look at him funny as he describes it. If he has the appropriate skills, they call him a genius, and his building of the worlds first Glove Box at that University becomes part of your campaign back story.

 

Or, you tell him "No". But letting him invent the thing is more fun.

 

If the character were to have the proper skill set, I might think about it. Though, that is a scary path to tread. Otherwise, it is meta-gaming by using player OOC knowledge.

 

If it is accidental no biggie. If the player KNEW it hadn't been created yet, I'd cry and be mad.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

If he has a skill that relates to the use of a glove box (PS:Chemist or even KS:Science!), he should at least know of glove boxes and could call the university to find if they have one. If not, have him roll a general Int roll to know of their existence.

If it's important to the plot, the suggestions could come from an appropriate NPC. Otherwise tell him, "Sorry, it's 1938, and you just have never heard of such a thing."

 

OTOH, if it's a fast and loose campaign with zeppelin pirates and ether ships, then the weird old scientist down the street probably has two or three of them in his basement.

 

Keith "context" Curtis

[Savinien]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

Game is set in 1925 and it is more of a 1925 'Dark' Pulp Game if you catch my drift.

 

It isn't critical to the plot and, in fact, sort of sidestepping what I was looking forward to. I appreciate both of your ideas though. They are good ones and excellent advice.

[Narratio]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

A glove box is not a Waldo guys.

 

There's notes on military chemists in Germany and England using glove boxes in the 1906-1912 period when war gases and were first being played with. So a government funded "black op" of the time might have them. They're just a metal box with a sheet of glass and long rubber gloves nailed around a couple of holes. Just something to keep gas and liquids inside and let you manipulate them with safety. gases and liquids posed known threats and this was an easy way to handle them safely. We still use gloves boxes in the maniplulation of radioactive, but a modern glove box is a high tech wonder.

 

Prior to RAH's story "Waldo", I can't find references either in SF or in public domain military tech. Before the discovery of radioactive materials and the knowledge of thier danger to organic objects (like people), there was no need or knowledge (or technical bility) to build or use remote control arms. Remember, a lot of Madame Curie's memorabilia is still only viewable through leaded glass. She (and hubby) used bare flesh to handle pitchblende and radium. The 30's shows the development of understanding in how to handle radioactive materials, but the guys who built the first nukes still worked with huge lumps of radioactive metal in unsealed areas. (HBO did a movie on it as I recall - Laura Dern as a nurse, yummy.)

 

So if you run this, I'd throw in a lot of curiousity and "Bah! Unproven Speculation!" from the resident authorities. Remember, OSHA as a purely modern affectation.

[gojira]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

Depending on the campaign, I'd most likely let a character invent a glove box. They really aren't that complicated. Two gloves, two round holes, and some glass.

 

If a PC is a university grad student or professor, most universities have machine shops where stuff could be fabricated, even if the PC didn't have the skill himself. The only real variable here is time, and money/administrative approval.

 

For a dark campaign, the time and the money/administration thing might an issue. It could take a while, and might cost the character a fair bit without appropriate persuasion, streetwise, scrounging or other skill rolls. For a more heroic campaign, a glove box could be procured in a couple of days, with out too many issues. For a swashbuckling game of air pirates, two hours, tops.

[Midas]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

Theatre of the Mind Enterprise (TOME) did a few early Call of Cthulhu scenarios. One of them had a professor and some students sent to Arizona to collect a batch of meteors. These meteors turned out to be something like the Green Ball in Heavy Metal. It's been years since I read the book, and I don't remember the exact details, but after seeing what the mutagenic effects are, the characters are either allowed to make "waldoes" and operate behind a lead mantlit, or have them ready made.

 

Just poetic license, or did somebody have something similar back then?

 

I'm thinking something like the WWII "coal scuttles" to collect fallen fire bombs.

 

Midas

[Yansuf]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

I am reasonably certain glove boxes predate WWII, by quite a bit.

They were (and are) used to handle things that must be kept in inert atmospheres, like lithium.

[The Monster]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

Sounds like a glove box might be possible, though waldoes would exist, if at all, in the lab of a Doc Savage. Since it seems an important plot point, my concern isn't so much whether a glove box is too anachronistic, as to how to save the plot without railroading the players unreasonably.

 

Why would a glove box necessarily be proof against the wom-wom? It could easily give the impression of protection without really working. If it's chemical, it could dissolve through the gloves (rubber or canvas or whatever); if it's radioactive, it would take more than a few inches of wood, metal, and glass to stop gamma rays, and if it's a germ, well, we've all heard of diseases that pass right through ordinary rubber - or even (a la Andromeda Strain) eat through it. In fact, it could make an amusing scene as the PC settles into his investigation, with everyone watching comfortably, and then panic as the wom-wom gets loose somehow. A classic scene, and one which can put the heroes at risk and yet be informative for them at the same time.

[austenandrews]

Re: Dealing with Anachronism

 

The player is interacting with the environment and the world in a way a GM hopes' date=' but his knowledge of the era or that particular, tiny piece of it is faulty. How do you adjudicate this?[/quote']

Default to story & playability. If it's a good fit for the story, being off by a few years on an obscure date isn't worth messing it up. That's the kind of error even professional writers let slide, if it suits their purpose.