Help with a new campaign.

[Checkmate]

Okay long story short: In the future Earth was invaded by aliens that are stronger, faster, and REALLY hard to kill. Humanity has basically been enslaved, PC's are resistance fighters.

 

Now here's the part I'm having trouble with: Humans have come up with a process to make themselves stronger and faster (still not on par with the aliens, but a lot closer). Now the players will have a choice in game whether to go through the process or not.

 

My inital thoughts were to give the players that take the process say 50 Points (maybe less, have to figure this out more) and increase the NCM (which will be in effect for all players) from 20-30 on physical stats.

 

Now that 50 (or so) points is actually an advance on XP. The players that don't take the process will get 2-3 XP per session, while the players that do will get 0-1 XP per session. I don't think that will be a big enough reason NOT to do it though. I think even with this limited XP gain, all the players will still want to do it, so I need to come up with a significant downside. I don't want it to be simply RP reasons, like they'll only live a year, or things like that, I'd really like a mechanics limitation (with accompanying RP reason for it would be great )

 

Anyone have any ideas?

[Nolgroth]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Hmmmn. How do they make themselves faster and stronger? Is it purely physio-metabolic, cybernetic implants, external equipment or something really exotic like manipulation of time?

 

All of those options could have some sort of "automatic Side Effect" like strained muscles (STUN damage) or something similar. Time manipulation could have the side effect of a Transform to add age. Cybernetic implants can have the Restrainable limitation. External equipment would be Foci.

 

I think pharmaceutical measures would be very appropriate and allow you to both have all characters created equal and have "built in" limits like temporary effects and the aforementioned side effects.

 

Without knowing more about the devious inner workings of your concept, there are some ideas you could use.

 

P.S. The idea of XP "loans" has occured to me before, only in a Fantasy racial package concept. I always wondered how they would work out.

[Checkmate]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

The general idea is they are injected with some drugs, strapped to a machine and viola (I don't want to go into too much detail as PC's may read this), so let's assume drugs make it happen.

 

I sort of like the idea of perhaps random side effects. Maybe after a period of stress as the adrenaline wears off, their muscles lock up...I was hoping for a more meta-game limitation though, maybe the lack of XP will be enough, on top of the side effects.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Drugs do nasty things to chemical balance. For your potential Steve Rogers out there, chemical imbalance induced Berserks or fits of melancholia, which in turn can be treated with other drugs (Dependence). Hee hee hee. I could have SO much fun with this concept. I could send you some conceptual ideas via Private Message if you want to keep it "off the table."

[doublefine]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

ROCK ON! You're recreating Blackcollars???

That being said, you might want to create a template for the players to use (+whatever Str, +random number DEX, etc...). So that your players don't try to TOTALLY abuse the drug. Also, if you can you might want to make the player characters earn it (go through a series of training exercises, attempt a quick dangerous mission, or something). After all, what good is having accelerated reaction times if you don't actually know what to do with them.

 

As a side note, are you keeping the idunine, psychor training, and psych conditioning? Or are you just going with Rycor and Blackcollars?

[Checkmate]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

ROCK ON! You're recreating Blackcollars???

That being said, you might want to create a template for the players to use (+whatever Str, +random number DEX, etc...). So that your players don't try to TOTALLY abuse the drug. Also, if you can you might want to make the player characters earn it (go through a series of training exercises, attempt a quick dangerous mission, or something). After all, what good is having accelerated reaction times if you don't actually know what to do with them.

 

As a side note, are you keeping the idunine, psychor training, and psych conditioning? Or are you just going with Rycor and Blackcollars?

 

Since I have no idea what Blackcollars are (or Rycor for that matter) I'd have to say no. The idea is similar I take it? You did give me an idea though. Instead of just handing out the points, maybe I'll do it in a more random way. There is even a chance that your stat could get reduced, a small chance but there. You'd be stuck with all of the side effects, and still have a reduction in stats. This would keep the less daring from trying it.

 

nolgroth,

Sure PM me any ideas you have. Just remember I want the enhancement to be a one time deal. Once they take it they are always enchaned. They don't have to keep taking the drugs to keep their new abilities.

[doublefine]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Since I have no idea what Blackcollars are (or Rycor for that matter) I'd have to say no. The idea is similar I take it?

 

Yeah, the Blackcollar novels are by Timothy Zahn. Basically, Humanity is attacked by a race known as the Rycor, they're faster stronger tougher than humans. So near the end of the war we create Blackcollars. Human warriors trained in some very old fighting techniques, including a lot of ninjitsu, and then injected them with a chemical cocktail, mainly indunine(which retards the aging process in humans) and Backlash(which speeds up the human nervous system permanently). Then we lost the war, the Rycor moved in and psychologically conditioned all of our leaders, and pretty much left the Blackcollars to rot, keeping a close eye on them to prevent them from becoming a threat of course.

 

Of course a Resistance Movement is formed, the main character has been chosen to inpersonate a high level government clerk and go on a secret mission to try to tip the balance in the Rycor's latest war against another race.

 

Anyway, they make great guerilla commandos. As they are used to lightning fast raids against hardened military targets, and they also use mainly low-tech weaponry which don't normally show up on the various police scanners(nunchakus, shuriken, swords, and sniper slingshots). They also have rather interesting armor, which spreads out the impact of various projectile weapons (completely useless against sharp or pointy objects unfortunately).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Zahn is such a hit or miss writer, but this at least sounds interesting. Regardless, the concept isn't entirely dissimilar to the original RIFTS Juicer, seeing as you're going with drugs, although you have the Permanent Enhancement whereas the Juicer had to keep on a steady stream or collapse. That, and their hearts explode inside of five years. Oops. Darn those tricky side effects.

 

I'm not sure I understand what sort of 'down side' you're looking for. We have all the obvious (social, psych, physical, etc.) and we can do infinite permutations of those, but I don't get where the limitation, you know, comes into play, as it were. I don't grasp enough of the concept you're aiming towards to really get an idea.

 

F'rinstance. My campaign uses Gengineered Half Giants, who are like your chem-pumped soldiers. However, they're huge (Distinctive Features), they're generally feared (Reputation: Violent and Short Tempered - whether or not it's TRUE doesn't matter, it's a Reputation), and they're in the employ of the government (Subject to Orders, Common/Total). Anytime someone creates a 'super soldier' concept, generally the people doing the funding are going to want some measure of authority over the subject.

 

And, I agree, limiting their XP gain isn't going to really do much of anything. You can handwave the NCM rule, but I don't suggest it - just give them a package that's built to treat them all equally, and if the package pushes them over, THAT you handwave, but afterwards they still spend at the normal ratios.

 

Finally, you don't want your creation to be 'too perfect.' There has to be a downside (Hulk's Rage is a classic, as is The Thing's stone skin). Permanent changes that come with the deal that might not be nearly as inviting - but don't totally turn you off.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

I'd suggest making up some sort of package deal and include disads that equal all the point spent. Something like:

+10 STR

+10 CON

+10 STUN

-20 Phys Lim: Must sleep 16 hours a day

-20 Enraged of some variety

 

All of it comes together. They can't get the bonuses without the penalties. The reason to take the package is that the included diasads wouldn't count towards the character's disad limit. In essence, they are 40 points better than someone who didn't take the package. As far as docking XP later, this wouldn't be necessary since the disads have already gobbled up the extra point cost.

[Checkmate]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Yeah, I have the ingame minuses that will effect the character, but I want something that will make the PLAYER stop to think about it. I mean we can all role-play our character's moral quandries about doing something like this, but in the end most players will meta-game (use their player brain instead of the character's personality). Role-Playing reasons will not usually stop a player from doing something that has a long term benefit to their character. Does this make more sense now?

[McCoy]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

It's been hinted, but I don't thaink anyone's come right out and said it.

 

Undergo the process, get another 50 xp to spend, and an equal 50 points in disads.

 

The process cannot give them a Secret ID, or a DNPC, so the new disads will probably be enrages, susceptabilities, vulnerability --

 

-- and Unluck.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Another option - if you want to introduce this process, and all the players will want to do it...maybe just do it? Don't worry too much about downsides, etc. if you just want it as part of the game.

 

PCs go on a few missions as normals, succeed but are made very aware of the enemy's physical superiority. Now they get a chance to even the odds more and can really appreciate the extra +10Str, +5Dex, +1SPD, etc.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Yeah' date=' I have the ingame minuses that will effect the character, but I want something that will make the PLAYER stop to think about it. I mean we can all role-play our character's moral quandries about doing something like this, but in the end most players will meta-game (use their player brain instead of the character's personality). Role-Playing reasons will not usually stop a player from doing something that has a long term benefit to their character. Does this make more sense now?[/quote']

 

Given the campaign premise, I think it would be a very odd choice if the dedicated resistance members fighting an oppressive regime of vastly physically superior aliens that has enslaved humanity didn't leap at the chance to even the odds.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Given the campaign premise' date=' I think it would be a very odd choice if the dedicated resistance members fighting an oppressive regime of vastly physically superior aliens that has enslaved humanity [i']didn't[/i] leap at the chance to even the odds.

While I'm sure in "reality" a lot of people would turn it down, I don't know of any gamers that would refuse.

 

Have you considered how you would deal with PC-balance issues if some of the players elect to take the buff and some don't? Having all of them decide to take it could be a good thing. However, maybe they don't all react to the drugs the same way, so some get enhanced STR & PD, other get higher DEX & SPD, etc.

 

As far as Disads, there's any number of Succeptabilities/Vulnerabilities/Dependances you could sneak in. Maybe these were created deliberately by the Powers That Be in case the super soldiers ever got out of hand?

[Checkmate]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

While I'm sure in "reality" a lot of people would turn it down' date=' I don't know of any [u']gamers[/u] that would refuse.

And here in lines my delima. I want a system where some gamers might actually refuse this.

 

Have you considered how you would deal with PC-balance issues if some of the players elect to take the buff and some don't? Having all of them decide to take it could be a good thing. However' date=' maybe they don't all react to the drugs the same way, so some get enhanced STR & PD, other get higher DEX & SPD, etc. [/quote']Which sort of ties into it. As far as game mechanics go, the players are going to have to use their heads more than their combat abilities anyway. The bad guys are still going to be much tougher than even the enhanced characters. I think the enraged will effectively balance things out, When an enhanced goes into a rage and tries to storm a bad guy

 

As far as Disads' date=' there's any number of Succeptabilities/Vulnerabilities/Dependances you could sneak in. Maybe these were created deliberately by the Powers That Be in case the super soldiers ever got out of hand? [/quote']See that's my problem, I have all the CHARACTER disads worked out, what I want is a Mechanic disad, and meta-game disad, something like the limited XP gain...Which if I can't think of anything else, I'll probably make it 0 XP until the 50 is paid off. The non-enhanced character would be steadly imporving while the enhanced takes it all at once...That might do it. maybe I'll set up a poll and see how many people here wouldn't do it.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Maybe the process takes some time, and requires time to adjust to the enhanced stats?

 

"Thank you all for coming. We've been impressed with your achievements so far against the Bahdgeiss oppressors.

 

There's a new process that's been developed that can greatly enhance a soldier's physical abilities, making him much more of a match for the Bahdgeiss. There are drawbacks, and it takes some time to administer and adjust to."

 

(presents details)

 

"This is strictly on a volunteer basis. If any of you do not wish to undergo this process, while your teammates adjust to their new biochemistries, you'll be going through advanced training in a variety of disciplines. This group has been successful so far, we don't want to break it up. Think about it, and give me your answers in the morning."

 

The PCs who get the enhancement get the extra stats and some side effects, and it takes them a few months to adjust. The ones who don't take it spend the few months getting extra training instead. Give 'em all bonus pts, but they get spent differently depending on their choice.

[Checkmate]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Hmm that's not a bad idea. I'll have to see how that balances out. I did like the no XP to the gradual gain though. I'll have to look at this.

 

Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

And here in lines my delima. I want a system where some gamers might actually refuse this.

Why? I'm not saying the idea is bad or wrong, just that I'm having trouble understanding why it's so important to you that some PCs don't take the enhancements? I mean, who wants to play Bucky when you're hanging out with Captain America?

[austenandrews]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Why? I'm not saying the idea is bad or wrong' date=' just that I'm having trouble understanding why it's so important to you that some PCs [i']don't[/i] take the enhancements? I mean, who wants to play Bucky when you're hanging out with Captain America?

Depends on what the Disads are.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Depends on what the Disads are.

I can't imagine any Disads you could pile on Cap that would make me rather play Bucky. (And Cap's not even one of my favorite characters - Sorry, Hermit.) It's not just that Cap is a more powerful or more effective character; it's that he's Larger Than Life. And a LTL character, even with LTL Disads, is generally far more fun to play than a Competant Normal. IMHO, YMMV, etc.

[austenandrews]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

If the Disads are things like "Can't Stand Sunlight" or "Must Obey the Computer" or "Shines Like a Beacon On Alien Scanners," the choice might make a little more sense.

 

Besides, I don't see any indication that the non-suped characters aren't LTL.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

If the Disads are things like "Can't Stand Sunlight" or "Must Obey the Computer" or "Shines Like a Beacon On Alien Scanners' date='" the choice might make a little more sense.[/quote']

Okay, I should've said "any Disad that leaves a playable character."

 

Besides' date=' I don't see any indication that the non-suped characters aren't LTL.[/quote']

I guess that's the question, then: what do the non-enhanced PCs get?

[Checkmate]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

I'm hoping for more of a, I'd rather play Batman than Spiderman, type of thing.

 

The non-enhanced get a stead flow of XP that keeps coming in, and none of the disads.

[Cancer]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Your enhanced characters may also have some override and/or suicide implants put in them. An enhanced human can be recognized, and if captured, analyzed and interrogated/tortured to learn their origin. The freedom fighters' brain trust can't risk being tracked down. So enhanced fighters have to have a suicide switch with an OR condition (the fighter can voluntarily do it, but there's also a separate internal module that may decide to do it as well).

 

It could also be that the enhanced guys are just too whacked out to be trusted out of combat. So they also have a "reversible lobotomy" implant that shuts down most of them (INT, EGO, PRE --> 7) when not on duty.

 

That means that enhanced humans are pretty worthless as infiltrators and can never rise above grunt private. Non-enhanced humans have to lead, and somehow insert a squad of enhanced guys into a target zone, and then give the orders.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Help with a new campaign.

 

Going back to the XP debt thingy, what does that really buy you? That's simply an "XP Loan". Whoever suggested to choose either "use the points for advanced training" or "use the points for the enhancement" was right on. OK, so you don't get a medical shot to be stronger, but that leaves you plenty of points for skills like Demolitions or CSL's to make you unique in your own way.