Tri-system experiment

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

That' date=' is a [i']special[/i] ice cream cone. It was given to Thia by Steve Long.

 

You could always talk with Steve about giving Thia another one

 

That's gonna cost Thia 5 points.

[Funksaw]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

Give me a few days and I'll whip something up in InDesign; a few more and I might have an XML file for HeroDesigner.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

First off, I like my Ice Cream Cone. It was given to me from on high, before I ascended. This is the part where I try to look pious. And fail. There's a lot to be said, and I think y'all are right. Speaking, as I can, as an outsider to a certain extent, this system takes some serious effort to wrap the skull 'round right.

 

I think it would be a hybrid - it's easy to list the advantages and give each one a brief description (see d20, which is the master of this) and then straight up hide the math. In which case, my weapon of choice would look more like this:

 

Holy Ice Cream Cone of Smiting, 10d6 damage, throwable, penetrating* (7 END)

+6d6 vs. the Avowed Enemies of Thia Halmades (3 END)

This enchanted ice cream cone is in fact a powerful artifact, which simply changes its appearance with each user. However, the effect hasn't work in millenia, and in this case, the Holy Ice Cream Cone of Smiting has chosen a form which stands out atrociously. However, it is bound to Thia. Were anyone to take it away, it would immediately return to his hands..

 

Now we have a description, with a little modification we can add a Range, and voila! I think we're all so used to doing the math, that we forget something obvious. In every single write up Steve has done in the books, there's a basic text block that gives you the 'must know' information about a given power. I suggest just giving THAT to the new people, and not try to explain Advantages, Disads, Adders, Lims, etc.

 

Just say "Okay dude, you're playing... The Lord Captain Thia Halmades, a powerful paladin trapped between times. Your primary weapon is an Ice Cream Cone..." "Wait, a what?" "Ice cream cone, crafted by your Gods for use in mortal combat. It does 10d6 Penetrating - do you remember what that means?" "Ah... that I always get some STUN through armor, right?" "Exactly right. And, should you come across a Mortal Enemy..." "A what?" "If someone really cheeses you off, you can declare them an 'avowed enemy.' Usually, everything you can prove is Evil and trying to kill you. Then you do an extra 6d6, and that stacks. So 16d6 of ice creamery whup-ass." "Dude. That's awesome." "And expensive - that stunt costs you 10 END." "that's how much stuff I can do?" "Yes, and 10 is a LOT. So you can avow just about anyone, which is great - but overuse it and you'll be stuck."

 

In other words - you can be completely new to the game, which is fine - and just be given the basic tools required to play. Damage, range, END cost (if any). Being new often means there ain't much you'll need to BUILD. You just need to know how it works. HERO can do that - but we're so caught up in tweaking we often look right past the fun factor.

[sbarron]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

In other words - you can be completely new to the game' date=' which is fine - and just be given the basic tools required to play. Damage, range, END cost (if any). Being new often means there ain't much you'll need to BUILD. You just need to know how it works. HERO can do that - but we're so caught up in tweaking we often look right past the fun factor.[/quote']I think this is exactly right. And it is why I keep hoping that someone will actually a "create" a setting within HERO that is fully fleshed out and presented in a more simple format. All the math for talents, powers, and weapons would be done ahead of time...and then promptly hidden.

 

So, if it were a Pulp Hero game, players will have a weapon list to chose from that has only damage, range mods, etc. There would be a list of talents available for the game that have only the point cost, base effect, and a description of how they work. And finally a list of spells or magical abilities that are available with a similar description to talents. And because the game would provide write-ups for all the available abilities and equipment right out-of-the-box, there would be no need for players to build new weapons, talents, or powers.

 

This game would be able to take advantage of the balance that HERO provides without scaring any new players off with complex math or power write-ups, because the math is all done in advance and the complexity is hidden. So it would be more accessable to new players. And if experienced HERO gamers wanted to play the game, they would have all the tools from HERO 5th to add new abilities, powers, and weapons as needed.

[OddHat]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

I think this is exactly right. And it is why I keep hoping that someone will actually a "create" a setting within HERO that is fully fleshed out and presented in a more simple format. All the math for talents, powers, and weapons would be done ahead of time...and then promptly hidden.

 

So, if it were a Pulp Hero game, players will have a weapon list to chose from that has only damage, range mods, etc. There would be a list of talents available for the game that have only the point cost, base effect, and a description of how they work. And finally a list of spells or magical abilities that are available with a similar description to talents. And because the game would provide write-ups for all the available abilities and equipment right out-of-the-box, there would be no need for players to build new weapons, talents, or powers.

 

This game would be able to take advantage of the balance that HERO provides without scaring any new players off with complex math or power write-ups, because the math is all done in advance and the complexity is hidden. So it would be more accessable to new players. And if experienced HERO gamers wanted to play the game, they would have all the tools from HERO 5th to add new abilities, powers, and weapons as needed.

 

Not a bad idea at all. It comes down to a cleaned up and re-packaged version of items from the existing USPDs and Grimores (which are pretty much meant to serve this purpose), plus one of the setting books (hopefully with improved art). I doubt it's likely from the DoJ, but a third party product might be possible. Too much work to do it without pay, imo.

[zornwil]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

Not a bad idea at all. It comes down to a cleaned up and re-packaged version of items from the existing USPDs and Grimores (which are pretty much meant to serve this purpose)' date=' plus one of the setting books (hopefully with improved art). I doubt it's likely from the DoJ, but a third party product might be possible. Too much work to do it without pay, imo.[/quote']

Sounds up your alley.

 

(I wonder when we can goad OH into writing..)

[Lemurion]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

Not a bad idea at all. It comes down to a cleaned up and re-packaged version of items from the existing USPDs and Grimores (which are pretty much meant to serve this purpose)' date=' plus one of the setting books (hopefully with improved art). I doubt it's likely from the DoJ, but a third party product might be possible. Too much work to do it without pay, imo.[/quote']

 

The problem is that I don't think a third-party could use the USPDs and Grimoires to build a setting. It would be almost impossible to get the partial reprint rights to put them into a product. Only DOJ could do that as far as I can see.

 

Still, a setting that used completely unique packages etc. could probably make it.

 

It sounds like a good idea but a ton of work.

[Robyn]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

Still, a setting that used completely unique packages etc. could probably make it.

 

It sounds like a good idea but a ton of work.

 

If they could get rights to use some of the ideas posted here on this forum . . .

 

Zornwil - if you can't get Oddhat to write (as Lemurion said, it sounds like a ton of work), maybe you can get him to give permission for the printing of what he's already written, to make it easier for those who would assemble such a book?

[zornwil]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

If they could get rights to use some of the ideas posted here on this forum . . .

 

Zornwil - if you can't get Oddhat to write (as Lemurion said, it sounds like a ton of work), maybe you can get him to give permission for the printing of what he's already written, to make it easier for those who would assemble such a book?

You heard him, Robert. But why give it to others when you can roll it into your own published prefab setting...

 

(I love the idea. I am working on a game that I hope to turn around and publish a HERO setting that will be all prefab, as well, but it's outside the CU)

[Vondy]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

You heard him, Robert. But why give it to others when you can roll it into your own published prefab setting...

 

(I love the idea. I am working on a game that I hope to turn around and publish a HERO setting that will be all prefab, as well, but it's outside the CU)

 

Would you produce a downloadable PDF with all the engineering that's under the hood - so that newbies could start playing with the pre-fab and then, if they got curious, could sit down and decode it?

[sbarron]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

Would you produce a downloadable PDF with all the engineering that's under the hood - so that newbies could start playing with the pre-fab and then' date=' if they got curious, could sit down and decode it?[/quote']Seems like you could. But that would be the cool thing about using HERO prefab stuff from the Grimoires, Bestiary, and USPD. The work under the hood would already be in all those books. Players interested in tweaking or creating new stuff would have all that info available to them.

 

I remember having this discussion about hiding the math on these boards more than a year ago. At the time, someone said they were getting ready to release something that did all the things I hoped for. But I can't find the thread now, and nothing of that sort as yet has been released. If Zornwill has something he working on, I think that's great!

[zornwil]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

Would you produce a downloadable PDF with all the engineering that's under the hood - so that newbies could start playing with the pre-fab and then' date=' if they got curious, could sit down and decode it?[/quote']

That's exactly what I'm doing ffor my own game, as the SUSS engine is not explicated to great detail in the game, but I'm planning that as a free PDF online, and unlike the game, which I'm developing to be more colloquial and oriented to "let's just play, understanding the principles of play," the PDF engine will be more crunchy and give lots of "here's another way to do it". But I don't know that I'll be able to spend the time on the HERO version. Then again, since I would probably need to do that for myself regardless, I'd probably do so. The issue for me is just that, for obvious reasons, the HERO version will take a back seat, so I haven't given it as much thought at this point, I just know that I intend to do it (which is why I phrased it as something I "hope" to do, given its lesser priority).

[zornwil]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

Seems like you could. But that would be the cool thing about using HERO prefab stuff from the Grimoires, Bestiary, and USPD. The work under the hood would already be in all those books. Players interested in tweaking or creating new stuff would have all that info available to them.

 

I remember having this discussion about hiding the math on these boards more than a year ago. At the time, someone said they were getting ready to release something that did all the things I hoped for. But I can't find the thread now, and nothing of that sort as yet has been released. If Zornwill has something he working on, I think that's great!

Well, I want to contain excitement since it will take me time to get to that point. I'll of course take what I can from prepublished stuff, but lots of stuff in this game (Cyber Ninja Pirates in Space, the HERO version, not sure exactly how I'll differentiate it so it's clear it's the same setting but a different game) will be unique, too.

[Black Rose]

Re: Tri-system experiment

 

I think this is exactly right. And it is why I keep hoping that someone will actually a "create" a setting within HERO that is fully fleshed out and presented in a more simple format. All the math for talents, powers, and weapons would be done ahead of time...and then promptly hidden.

 

~SNIP~

 

This game would be able to take advantage of the balance that HERO provides without scaring any new players off with complex math or power write-ups, because the math is all done in advance and the complexity is hidden. So it would be more accessable to new players. And if experienced HERO gamers wanted to play the game, they would have all the tools from HERO 5th to add new abilities, powers, and weapons as needed.

There's a little programming doohickie* KS uses on his site (I have no idea what it's called, since I consider myself a glorified computer illiterate, until I deal with the real thing at work) that allows you to have a block of text that "magically" expands to show a lot more block of text when you click on it, and then it shrinks down when you click it again. He uses this mostly to go into greater detail about his magic systems (at least, that's what I've seen it used for there). If this theoretical setting you propose were online, something like this would be pretty near perfect: creamy flavor text description on top, crunch underneath. It's one of the great failings of paper, it doesn't allow for info shifting.

 

 

* that's a technical programming term, or so I've been told.