Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

[kjamma4]

Over the course of a few threads, there has been talk about how some people eliminate the SPD chart, preferring to have a set number of actions per turn and just go in DEX order. An underlying thought was that it was a pain to keep track of actions/phases.

 

I am relatively new to HERO but think that the SPD chart is great*. To relive the GM of some of the logistical duties (so he can concentrate on story telling) we have one of the players handle the SPD chart**. We have a chart with at least the characters' info and their phases pre-set. You can use a glass bead and move it to indicate the phase and dex order. Works well.

 

*We migrated over to Fantasy HERO from D&D 3.5. Although I liked the multiple attacks per round in 3.5, I disliked that all of them came at once during your initiative. With HERO, you get more of the "give-and-take" of combat rather than the "I go, you go" feel.

 

** We also did this when we played 3.5 - having a player keep track of initiative and the duration of spells.

[Questar]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

Seems like a good solution. I run the old GMaid software program on a laptop, and it tracks through the phases easily, so it's never been a particular problem in our games. The Speed Chart is really the only good way I have ever seen to handle supers combat. I wouldn't want to run a supers game without it.

 

But I'm all for assigning certain tasks to other players to help with all the intricacies of running combat. In your games, does the player running the Speed Chart also keep track of which characters have held phases? I guess that would be hard to do in some cases where the GM wanted to keep players guessing about what their opponents are up to.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

That isn't bad.

 

We use little business cards and a d12. The d12 shows what phase is on and the cards are filled out like so.

 

 

Name.....................Dex

P H A S E S.

 

Then they are laid out in order and the GM can just run down the list. This has the secondary effect that whoever drops a character (or had done the most damage) get the card when the villian goes down.

[Rapier]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

I've usually just got a half a sheet of paper that says:

 

Phase 1:

 

Phase 2:

Hero 1 - DEX 29 - OCV 10 - STUN ___________________ - BODY __________________

Hero 2 - DEX 27 - OCV 9 - STUN ___________________ - BODY __________________

Mook 1 - DEX 18 - OCV 6 - STUN ___________________ - BODY __________________

Mook 2 - DEX 18 - OCV 6 - STUN ___________________ - BODY __________________

 

Phase 3:

Hero 3 - DEX 22 - OCV 7 - STUN ___________________ - BODY __________________

Mook 3 - DEX 15 - OCV 5 - STUN ___________________ - BODY __________________

 

etc.

 

I just run down the list.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

I use a white board, which I love.

 

PHASES 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

 

TOM 14 -------x--------x-----------x

 

ZANE 18 ------x--------x-----------x

 

GORDON 15--o------x-------o-------x

 

DUKE 14 ------x---------x----------x

 

JULIA 18 ----x------x-------x-------x

 

And then I put in the DEX on which they go (and mark them as necessary) and notch off their order. Works nicely.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

When GMing I shout out the segment and the players have to claim an action. If they don't claim an action then I assume the character was daydreaming too

[Daeger]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

As a D&D player, I find it odd that initiative tends to vary very little. If you have a low speed, you never have a chance to go first.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

As a D&D player' date=' I find it odd that initiative tends to vary very little. If you have a low speed, you never have a chance to go first.[/quote']

 

This comes back to which style one thinks is appropriate. The d20 system incorporates substantially more random chance. One could also say it seems odd that a character with an 8 DEX (bottom rung for PCs using the point buy system) will act before one with an 18 DEX (pretty much top of the heap) about 25% of the time, indicating that the problem is with d20.

[CBikle]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

If the GM is new to Hero, I'll offer to do this. When I GM, it's usually just easier for me to do it myself.

 

However, I'll usually have the PCs run friendly NPCs when in combat together.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

As a D&D player' date=' I find it odd that initiative tends to vary very little. If you have a low speed, you never have a chance to go first.[/quote']

 

There is no first, combat is a single flowing action that the mechanics describe as best they can. DnD assumes some sort of weird stop montion photography approach to combat that is far less realistic.

 

If you want to 'go first' though, I can suggest tactics to allow you to do so.

 

1. You can hold actions, effectively losing this one but letting you 'go first' on the next one.

 

2. Block: this is an abort action so you can 'go first' and it allows you to attack first next phase (if you both act next on the same phase and if not, see 1 above) irrespective of relative DEX.

[CourtFool]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

I have never had a problem with the SPD chart. In fact, the SPD chart fixed all the problems I had with 'roll initiative'. I have an over-sized D12 to indicate the current Phase. I ask the player's who act in Phase X. If I get multiple responses, I ask for Dex. This requires the players to look up two things. Usually after the first few Turns, everyone knows when they go and it just a matter of me figuring out when the NPCs go.

 

I do not like the randomness of 'roll initiative'. Faster people should go first. This just feels right to me. You can argue what is more realistic or what fits the genre better. It is just my preference.

[Daeger]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

There is no first, combat is a single flowing action that the mechanics describe as best they can. DnD assumes some sort of weird stop montion photography approach to combat that is far less realistic.

 

If you want to 'go first' though, I can suggest tactics to allow you to do so.

 

1. You can hold actions, effectively losing this one but letting you 'go first' on the next one.

 

2. Block: this is an abort action so you can 'go first' and it allows you to attack first next phase (if you both act next on the same phase and if not, see 1 above) irrespective of relative DEX.

How about going first in a combat? Throwing the first punch can have quite the effect on the outcome of a battle.

[Cosmosemeritus]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

How about going first in a combat? Throwing the first punch can have quite the effect on the outcome of a battle.

 

I'd think that would be determined based on the situation.

 

In my opinion initiating combat isn't a combat action. In general, the guy who says "I shoot/hit/blast/wedgie him" first, gets to go first. The other guy can often use an abort action (or fastdraw). Then phase 12 starts.

 

I suppose (especially in player-v-player instances) you can have two people declare thier intent to initiate combat simulaneously. Then I tend to resolve the attacks simultaneously, barring things like fastdraw.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

How about going first in a combat? Throwing the first punch can have quite the effect on the outcome of a battle.

 

All in the set up - in a straight 'who is quicker' contest, the quicker character goes first. Seems logical to me. A slower character can go first is they surprise the opponent/sneak attack them or kick off with a PRE attack and make them hesitate - PRE attacks as writ inthe rules do not follow normal combat order.

[Chessack]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

Over the course of a few threads' date=' there has been talk about how some people eliminate the SPD chart, preferring to have a set number of actions per turn and just go in DEX order. An underlying thought was that it was a pain to keep track of actions/phases.[/quote']

 

Wow, people actually have a hard time keeping track of Phase orders? I always thought this was one of the easiest things about Champions.

 

C

[CBikle]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

Wow, people actually have a hard time keeping track of Phase orders? I always thought this was one of the easiest things about Champions.

 

C

 

In many RPGs, PCs don't get multiple actions in the same "phase" (or RPG equivalent) and those that do, usually resolve them at the same time.

 

I think most GMs/players are used to systems where everyone has one action.

 

Also, things like held actions, aborts or player's taking too long to resolve an action can throw the GM off once in awhile.

 

I've got it down pretty well, but every once in awhile, I get phases 5 and 8 mixed up , but someone usually catches this.

[JmOz]

Re: Having players help w/ the logistics (esp. SPD chart)

 

For those who like random:

 

Let each player bring a deck of cards, gm has 2 decks shuffled together

 

Each turn the decks are shuffled and a number of cards are drawn based on speed (Villains are delt based on speed, all speed 3 get the same cards)

 

Starts at Ace, goes down to 2, you get to go on any phase you have a card, if you share a card with another it goes based on dex