Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

[Mercule]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

In my campaign, the moon god is a male, semi-pacifistic, and guardian of the dead -- something of an Anubis character.

 

He has the strongest enmity of all deities with undead. The undead were created as a mockery of his charge.

 

It's a bit different than the norm.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I like that there's crossover between 'portfolios', without all gods ahving to stand out. That's pretty good. If you look at mythologies in RL, most of them have evolved over time, or even been smooshed together from multiple ones. This is particularly true of Egyptian mythology (Who's the sun god? Well, what dynasty are you talking about, and do you mean southern or northern Egypt?), and Greek (where each city was more or less a different nation, and the mythologies merged).

 

So the history of the pantheon, and those who worshipped them, might be something to think about. Some of this depends on whether the gods are real, and if the stories about them are 100% true or not. But even then, heaven and earth might relate somehow. When two tribes met, a thousand years ago, perhaps they warred for a while, then made peace and grew together... and they started saying that their chief deities (a man and a woman, respectively), were brother and sister, or got married. This may well be true, as the two pantheons, realising that their people were going to mingle, figured they may as well mingle themselves.

 

Or, perhaps, events in heaven are more important than those on earth, and one pantheon just dies out, or continues as an alternate religion. Depends on the history of your setting whether you even have to think about this, however.

 

But basicaly, cultures will expand, or be taken over... so what happens to the old gods? having a living, breathing cosmology can be a way for players to grasp the system and bring out the life in it, however it's done (if you want events on earth to affect the gods themselves, I recommend some manner of 'as you do on earth, so shall it be in heaven' kind of agreement).

 

Another important consideration is: how does the ordinary person interact with the gods? Even if they never meet gods (or if no-one ever does), there's still interaction in the form of prayer, sacrifice, or whatever. Do people have geographic ties to gods (like Athens and Athena), or historical ties, or is it 'pick and choose according to what helps you more'? The latter isn't just gamist, of course, it could work very well for your setting: for an example of this, check out the Orlanthi barbarian mythology of Glorantha. While certain tribes or clans might have particular historical/mythological ties to particular deities (one clan might only elect chieftains from particular cults, for instance), basically, the individual is initiated to a cult that reflects who they are and what they do. If you're a farmer, you join the cult of Barntar, or Orlanthcarl. If you're a warrior, you worship a warlike god (of which there are many). The list goes on.

 

In fact, I recommend checking out Glorantha no matter what: it's a well-developed mythology and system of deities that will at least provide a solid grounding in what's available (including multiplying the number of available cults by splitting one deity up into aspects, or even sub-aspects, depending on how important they are. Hence, Orlanth, the chief god, is worshipped in his capacity as a warrior, as a leader/father, or as the wind itself. Inside those aspects are cults for types of warrior, types of leader/father and types of wind!). Contributed to over the years by some very smart people, including a number of anthropologists.

 

Can people worship multiple gods, do they worship the pantheon as a whole, or do they pick and choose? For instance, would someone say 'I am a follower of Storm God' or would they say 'I am a follower of the pantheon, but I hold to the tenets of Storm God'? Or are there multiple theologies inside the one pantheon: 'I am a worshipper of the pantheon, via the teachings of Old Philospher, which prizes Storm God above all, but also sees a lot of importance in Sun God and Sea God.' If they worship one god, do they still sacrifice/pray/etc to the others? Or is this situational -- when setting out on a sea voyage, will everyone, no matter who they worship directly, sacrifice to Sea God?

 

Also: is this the only pantheon in the world? Are there enemy gods? Are there people in the world who have different beliefs? Do they worship the same gods in different ways (Wotan v Odin) or do they worship other ones entirely? Are those gods the same kind of being as these gods (to use Norse terms, are they all Aesir) or do they have different origins? Or are other deities fundamentally different beings? (Say, one culture worships Aesir, another worships powerful mortals ascended to divinity, another worships powerful spirits from the spirit world.)

 

Do people on earth know the whole truth, or is truth subjective (one religion says the earth was created from the primal giant's skull, another says it came from an egg. Are they both right, one right, or none right?).

 

If there are multiple pantheons of gods worshipped by other cultures, what are the relations between them? Are any of the gods from this pantheon worshipped by other pantheons as well? Are different myths told about them? Have they ever been at war? If they are at war, have they always been at war? Was the war started for divine reasons or mortal ones? Are they fighting because the deities are fundamentally opposed to each other, or because of philosophical differences, or simply because their people compete for resources? How intimiately tied to their worshippers are gods, anyway? If their people are wiped out, will they survive? Will they be absorbed into the conquering pantheon? Or will they just fade away? (Feeds back into some of the earlier questions asked.)

 

In the case of the setting I'm working on, the gods themselves are of the second generation, the first generation (of which there were likely only two) having been mutually annihilated by First Children of The Dark at the end of the last age. There's only one pantheon of gods, plus the surviving entities created by The Dark, to whom they are opposed. Different cultures in different parts of the world might know the gods by different names and attribute different images to them, but no matter the name, there is only one Sun, one Earth, etc.

 

One of the things I'm looking at is whether or not to add a third generation of gods to the mix, associated with concepts and roles that are less elemental and more human in nature.

 

Mortals do not know the objective truth, and in some cases they know lies that the gods have told them. The exact nature of worship varies from culture to culture, particularly among humans. In one place, there's a dominant church dedicated to a single god and with a great deal of temporal power as well as spiritual influence -- the other gods are viewed as secondary within that area -- while in another place, the people offer prayer or sacrifice to whatever god suits the moment and spiritual leaders are more likely to be priests of local shrines, or shaman, or something else along less organized lines. The gods do not in general care so much about the particulars, so long as they are given their just due.

 

While the gods thrive on worship (the dark entities don't care about it), and it effects their prestige and infuence within their own realm, they don't depend on it for their survival. They created the world, they created life, they existed before there was anything but themselves. All of the second generation of gods are equal in power within their own realm, but to some degree need mortal followers to exercise their will in the mortal world.

 

Some cultures do revere their ancestors. I'm not sure about the idea of mortals ascending to godhood.

 

There are other "races" besides humans, such as the Moon People, the Fire People, etc, and they tend to revere the deity whose name they share above the others.

 

The Twilight People do not engage in worship, but do honor their dead, particular their "dead gods" (the aforementioned First Children of the Dark). Their relationship with the surviving dark entities would be better compared to the exchange of gifts and favors than to anything like worship. Of all the "races" of the mortal realm, their knowledge of cosmology and history comes closest to the truth.

 

I have more' date=' but that's probably enough for now. It's also not exactly what you asked for, but I thought I'd get all that down, anyway. It's stuff that's been bumbling around in my head for ages.[/quote']

 

That's OK, it still contributes to the thread. I look forward to seeing the rest of what you have to say.

 

Btw' date=' going against RPG standards can be hard. In my own game, the pantheon is more important than the individual god worshipped. I still have trouble convincing people that 'no, this guy is a priest of the Church of Traladara. His church building is dedicated in particular to Petra, but that doesn't make him a priest of Petra; just means that she's particularly important to this site, no different to a church in the real world being dedicated to a saint.' Yet they still refer to him as 'a priest of Petra', and ask me what various priests' patron deities are. I'll get it through to them eventually![/quote']

 

Common GM complaint, I think -- gamers seem particularly stuck in their preconceptions of certain things. Trying to explain a classless, levelless system to someone who's only ever played class & level systems...exercise in patience sometimes. "But I'm playing a priest, I need a mace or a staff!"

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

While the gods thrive on worship (the dark entities don't care about it),

 

You know, the dark entities might get more than their churches/temples would imply. A lot of dark entities in real world religions get sacrifices not because the sacrificer believes in the god's tenets, but because they just want the evil that god does to fall on someone else. In my game world, I've set it up so that the dark goddess gets this sort of sacrifice, to the chagrin of the good church, and in many places it's a capital offense. People still do it in the dark of night though, to keep the bad things at bay.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

You know' date=' the dark entities might get more than their churches/temples would imply. A lot of dark entities in real world religions get sacrifices not because the sacrificer believes in the god's tenets, but because they just want the evil that god does to fall on someone else. In my game world, I've set it up so that the dark goddess gets this sort of sacrifice, to the chagrin of the good church, and in many places it's a capital offense. People still do it in the dark of night though, to keep the bad things at bay.[/quote']

 

At least in the setting I'm working on, The Dark and its creations aren't the source of evil, no matter what the gods tell their followers.

 

The Dark resembles in some ways the Greek god/concept Chaos, while the First Children of Darkness are a bit like Erebus and Nyx.

[AlHazred]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

In the case of the setting I'm working on, the gods themselves are of the second generation, the first generation (of which there were likely only two) having been mutually annihilated by First Children of The Dark at the end of the last age. There's only one pantheon of gods, plus the surviving entities created by The Dark, to whom they are opposed. Different cultures in different parts of the world might know the gods by different names and attribute different images to them, but no matter the name, there is only one Sun, one Earth, etc.

 

One of the things I'm looking at is whether or not to add a third generation of gods to the mix, associated with concepts and roles that are less elemental and more human in nature.

 

[sNIP]

 

The Twilight People do not engage in worship, but do honor their dead, particular their "dead gods" (the aforementioned First Children of the Dark). Their relationship with the surviving dark entities would be better compared to the exchange of gifts and favors than to anything like worship. Of all the "races" of the mortal realm, their knowledge of cosmology and history comes closest to the truth.

For some more food for thought, let me recommend the concept of Qliphoth. My favorite variation describes the Qliphoth as the husks of "dead worlds," the worlds God created before the current one where everything worked out "right." This could work in your setting. Perhaps the Dark houses the remnants of the previous worlds, wonders and terrors and horrors literally beyond mortal ken, which men call Night and Shadow and so on; in this view, the gods who created the current world are a few of these "remnant entities."

 

In this view, the Dark could perhaps be the force that wishes to destroy the world so that the next creation can take place. Perhaps the Reason Bad Things Happen is precisely because each creation must destroy itself in order to make way for the next, in a continuous cycle (possibly of purification, where each creation is closer to "perfection" than the one before, or perhaps a Lovecraftian mirror image where each creation descends further from the Pure Way of the Golden Age at the Dawn of Time). In this case, the gods know that they fight against not just the Entropy within creation, but actual mystical agents of Entropy, the Dark and its children. Perhaps they do not really fight against Entropy but play into the eventual Doom of the Universe by design - it just looks like a War of the Gods because humans are not equipped with the right mental tools to understand the actual metaphysical reasons for the actions of Heaven.

 

As far as expanding portfolios, this too can be developed by several gods, either in cooperation or competition. Perhaps the Sealord is also the Rainbringer; in cooperation with the Earthmaster, they rule the harvest. Marriage and love are presided over by the Sun and Moon - some people are said to be "Sun-hearted" or "Moon-hearted" to indicate two different kinds of love; it is said that those who try to marry one with the other kind of heart (Moon and Sun marrying, for instance) will have contentious and argumentative marriages (but also very passionate) while those who marry the same heart will have peace at home (well, compared to those who mix). Marriage between two Sun-hearted folk take place during the day, while Moon-hearted folk marry at night (the most auspicious time being calculated by professional astrologers, who are traditionally paid in gold and silver - sun and moon); those who mix are married at dawn. Some folk are actually Shadow-hearted - these folk are duplicitous, and taint those who are deceived into marrying them. They will never have true love, but only Shadow-love, a dark, passionate, obsessive emotion generated by the Dark in mockery of the true Love of the Father and Mother.

 

In this way you can further develop personalities for the gods. I recommend that different cultures have different ideas of the personalities of the gods. Places geographically close to one another might have similar ideas, but as one travels farther from home, one encounters stranger and stranger ideas about the personalities of the gods.

 

Tired now. Time for bed.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

For some more food for thought' date=' let me recommend the concept of Qliphoth. My favorite variation describes the Qliphoth as the husks of "dead worlds," the worlds God created before the current one where everything worked out "right." This could work in your setting. Perhaps the Dark houses the remnants of the previous worlds, wonders and terrors and horrors literally beyond mortal ken, which men call Night and Shadow and so on; in this view, the gods who created the current world are a few of these "remnant entities."

 

My current thought is that the first generation of gods (Father and Mother in the previous posts) are exiles or refugees from another world. The idea of dead husks of worlds might fit in with that.

 

In this view' date=' the Dark could perhaps be the force that wishes to destroy the world so that the next creation can take place. Perhaps the Reason Bad Things Happen is precisely because each creation must destroy itself in order to make way for the next, in a continuous cycle (possibly of purification, where each creation is closer to "perfection" than the one before, or perhaps a Lovecraftian mirror image where each creation descends further from the Pure Way of the Golden Age at the Dawn of Time). In this case, the gods know that they fight against not just the Entropy within creation, but actual mystical agents of Entropy, the Dark and its children. Perhaps they do not really fight against Entropy but play into the eventual Doom of the Universe by design - it just looks like a War of the Gods because humans are not equipped with the right mental tools to understand the actual metaphysical reasons for the actions of Heaven.[/quote']

 

What role do you see for the Twilight People in your idea? I don't intend them to be evil, or chaotic. In fact, 15+ years ago when the seeds of this setting first took root in my imagination, they were philosophically dedicated to the balance between chaos and order, before I realized that that whole thing had been explored to death and back. (Moorcock, anyone? And imagine my problem when I realized that his protagonist had pale skin, white hair, and red eyes, just like mine -- although in her case, it's not albinism and she's not a mopey doofus. )

 

It's interesting, though...I'm seeing an idea here that I started the other thread to explore, the association of darkness with entropy, with destruction, with things commonly considered evil, with the "reason bad things happen".

 

Cancer actually offers a good view of how the Twilight People would see The Dark in this post:

 

"It is possible to construct a polytheistic mythos wherein Darkness is, at least some of the time and to substantial parts of Creation, a benevolent power.

 

Darkness is the Protector of the Helpless, concealing them so that the ravenous mighty cannot find them to devour. All beginnings come from the Dark, because the living prey upon the new and helpless. Is there a womb or an egg where one can see the bare start of any life? No.

 

Darkness is the Knower of Secrets, that which knows everything that no one knows. The Light exposes the Truth, but the proud and mighty create their own Truth and wield it and the Light as an unconquerable weapon. What the mighty do not want known lies in Darkness, and from the Darkness comes hopes and beginnings of their downfall.

 

Darkness is the Great Mercy, where a mind broken by horror and body riven with pain can find relief from the agony of its existance. In relief can come healing, as woes are held at bay, the packs of thieves and looters pass unknowing. In rest comes renewed strength, restored will, and eternal hope.

 

Darkness is the Great Unconquerable, for who can destroy the Void? The mad beast of Destruction and Death may annihilate the whole world and all that is in it, yet Darkness receives it all and exists after. When the king stands over the last of his slain enemies, mighty in his power and pride, he, too, will come to Darkness in the end."

 

 

As far as expanding portfolios' date=' this too can be developed by several gods, either in cooperation or competition. Perhaps the Sealord is also the Rainbringer; in cooperation with the Earthmaster, they rule the harvest. Marriage and love are presided over by the Sun and Moon - some people are said to be "Sun-hearted" or "Moon-hearted" to indicate two different kinds of love; it is said that those who try to marry one with the other kind of heart (Moon and Sun marrying, for instance) will have contentious and argumentative marriages (but also very passionate) while those who marry the same heart will have peace at home (well, compared to those who mix). Marriage between two Sun-hearted folk take place during the day, while Moon-hearted folk marry at night (the most auspicious time being calculated by professional astrologers, who are traditionally paid in gold and silver - sun and moon); those who mix are married at dawn. Some folk are actually Shadow-hearted - these folk are duplicitous, and taint those who are deceived into marrying them. They will never have true love, but only Shadow-love, a dark, passionate, obsessive emotion generated by the Dark in mockery of the true Love of the Father and Mother.[/quote']

 

Interesting concepts.

 

Do you have any suggestions on whether there should be a third generation of gods, or if I should stick with just those I have?

 

In this way you can further develop personalities for the gods. I recommend that different cultures have different ideas of the personalities of the gods. Places geographically close to one another might have similar ideas' date=' but as one travels farther from home, one encounters stranger and stranger ideas about the personalities of the gods.[/quote']

 

Agreed, and that's what I have in mind as things stand. Even if there's only one pantheon of gods, there are many ways in which various mortals will see those gods.

 

BTW, don't get me wrong when I say "Yes, but..." I asked for brainstorming and I appreciate what you're posting quite a bit.

[AlHazred]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

What role do you see for the Twilight People in your idea?

 

The Twilight People do not engage in worship' date=' but do honor their dead, particular their "dead gods" (the aforementioned First Children of the Dark). Their relationship with the surviving dark entities would be better compared to the exchange of gifts and favors than to anything like worship. Of all the "races" of the mortal realm, their knowledge of cosmology and history comes closest to the truth.[/quote']Hmmm... It sounds like they're theurgists as opposed to traditional worshippers - they try to produce objective effects through manipulation of symbols in accordance with metaphysical principles. This gives them a different view on reality than the other races - they're "reality engineers" rather than "servants to the Divine." In this, they may use the powers of all entities without fear - they know that they are partaking of the Divine, each theurgist purifying himself toward his Divine self, and as such beyond mortal morality. It makes for an interesting power group...

 

It's interesting, though...I'm seeing the association of darkness with entropy, with destruction, with things commonly considered evil, with the "reason bad things happen".

 

Cancer actually offers a good view of how the Twilight People would see The Dark

Sure. I remember making a good Darkness deity twenty years ago, based on a comment in (I believe) the 1E Dungeon Master's Guide - namely that a race of underground-dwellers might believe in a protector Darkness and an enemy Sun. Consider that in ancient polytheistic cultures (or, at least, most of the ones we have records of), all the gods caused Bad Things to happen, at different times and for perfectly understandable reasons. One myth tells of a Roman who was killed by his Household Gods when he was on the verge of converting to Christianity, because they wanted his soul to remain in "the fold."

 

Do you have any suggestions on whether there should be a third generation of gods' date=' or if I should stick with just those I have?[/quote']I actually have a revolutionary suggestion, which (of course) I stole from somewhere else. How about this: the current primary gods and the forces of the Dark are locked in this titanic struggle (or whatever), which completely dominates most of their energies and the lives of their worshippers. The third generation of younger, less powerful, gods is much more "free" - they aren't locked into the Doom of the Universe - and can try to plan some way to liberate themselves from these prophecies of destruction. They have greater-than-mortal abilities, but are still less powerful than the gods that have wracked Reality with conflict; they cannot actively reveal any plans contrary to the desires of the older generations, as they would risk complete destruction. But, perhaps, they can find a way. [if you have some time before the game starts, I recommend Lawrence Watt-Evans' series: The Lure of the Basilisk, The Seven Altars of Dusarra, The Sword of Bheleu, and The Book of Silence, collectively known as The Lords of Dus. Good fantasy reading regardless, and it bears on your setting in a couple of points, I think.]

 

BTW' date=' don't get me wrong when I say "Yes, but..." I asked for brainstorming and I appreciate what you're posting quite a bit.[/quote']It's quite fair. We haven't discussed anything face to face. I'm just throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks. Apologies if I'm excessively long-winded, but it's an interesting discussion. I should probably read the other thread to avoid retreading the same ground, but I've been trying to keep my imagination somewhat "pure" of other influences...

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Hmmm... It sounds like they're theurgists as opposed to traditional worshippers - they try to produce objective effects through manipulation of symbols in accordance with metaphysical principles. This gives them a different view on reality than the other races - they're "reality engineers" rather than "servants to the Divine." In this' date=' they may use the powers of all entities without fear - they know that they are partaking of the Divine, each theurgist purifying himself toward his Divine self, and as such beyond mortal morality. It makes for an interesting power group...[/quote']

 

Hmm...I might see some of them doing this, but...for the most part, they'd see the dark entities as relatives they exchange gifts and favors with once in a rare while, not as things to manipulate, and the gods are their relatives' nasty neighbors, and who tried to blow up their house back when they and the relatives lived on their block. I'm not sure what the term would be for someone who knows that the gods exist, but don't care about them...it's not the same in a world where the basic existence of the gods isn't a matter of faith, it's a matter of demonstratable fact. Not atheists, or agnostics..."apathetics"? The Divine is a foreign concept to them.

 

I readily admit that they're anachronistic, maybe highly so, both in a fantasy setting, and historically.

 

The idea you present, however, does fit for another group in the setting, and I will use it for those individuals. In fact, I might use some of your other ideas for them, now that I think about it -- such as the Qliphoth adaptation you presented.

[AlHazred]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I might see some of them doing this' date=' but...for the most part, they'd see the dark entities as relatives they exchange gifts and favors with once in a rare while, not as things to manipulate, and the gods are their relatives' nasty neighbors, and who tried to blow up their house back when they and the relatives lived on their block.[/quote']Well, historically speaking, those who see the Divine as relations as opposed to objects of veneration are usually animists. They see sparks of the Divine in everything, everything a spirit embodied in some material form, including themselves. It's been a gradual thing where the majority worship an abstract entity considered to be far removed from the Material World.

 

In your setting, perhaps the Twilight People consider everything an embodied Divinity or principle of a Divinity - perhaps the imaginings of the Divine carry such force that they become the plants and trees and mountains. Or perhaps these are the body (distributed over a great distance and seemingly separated, but still one whole in the metaphysical sense) of the deity of Plants, Trees, and Mountains.

 

The idea you present' date=' however, does fit for another group in the setting, and I will use it for those individuals. In fact, I might use some of your other ideas for them, now that I think about it -- such as the Qliphoth adaptation you presented.[/quote']Cool! Come back and tell us more about it when you've finalized those ideas - I'd love to hear about it!

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Well' date=' historically speaking, those who see the Divine as relations as opposed to objects of veneration are usually animists. They see sparks of the Divine in everything, everything a spirit embodied in some material form, including themselves. It's been a gradual thing where the majority worship an abstract entity considered to be far removed from the Material World.[/quote']

 

I already have some animists in the setting.

 

In your setting' date=' perhaps the Twilight People consider everything an embodied Divinity or principle of a Divinity - perhaps the imaginings of the Divine carry such force that they become the plants and trees and mountains. Or perhaps these are the body (distributed over a great distance and seemingly separated, but still one whole in the metaphysical sense) of the deity of Plants, Trees, and Mountains.[/quote']

 

Thing is, the Twilight People have no words for "divine" or "divinity" in their language. They're anachronistic -- I doubt any historical culture would be a good parallel. They're pragmastists and empiricists in a world with real gods and real magic.

 

Cool! Come back and tell us more about it when you've finalized those ideas - I'd love to hear about it!

 

After reading the link you provided, I started thinking that the concepts of theurgy and thaumaturgy are a good basis for the powers of a certain arrogant, reclusive, and powerful form of magic use I was already developing, starting with one antagonist in particular -- he'd be full enough of himself to demand power from deities.

[AlHazred]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Perhaps, then, they are similar in mentality to the deists? There are two codas to deism: the idea that no book contains the "revealed word of God(s)," and the belief that rational consideration of the world leads to some basic religious truths. Substitute "metaphysical" or "magical" for "religious" truths, if that floats your boat. If they approach so-called gods rationally, how do they explain the powers they see? Do they consider such entities extremely powerful, but mortal and fallible, beings?

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Perhaps' date=' then, they are similar in mentality to the deists? There are two codas to deism: the idea that no book contains the "revealed word of God(s)," and the belief that rational consideration of the world leads to some basic religious truths. Substitute "metaphysical" or "magical" for "religious" truths, if that floats your boat. If they approach so-called gods rationally, how do they explain the powers they see? Do they consider such entities extremely powerful, but mortal and fallible, beings?

 

Yes, pretty much. They know that deities can be destroyed, there's a vast lifeless wasteland north of their current homeland where Mother and Father were destroyed by the First Children of The Dark, who sacrificed themselves in the process. Deities have power, but beings of the mortal realm may also learn paths to power.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Well' date=' Kristopher, I think its interesting. I second the question on how worship , the religion OF the deities works in this world, because that will have an effect on the culture you're writing and even the prejudices your protaganist will face.[/quote']

 

Depends on where and which culture...there's only one pantheon, but the religions vary from place to place. Within certain limits, the gods don't care about the details, as long as they have worshippers.

 

Sounds like the poor girl is already heresy on two legs.

 

Especially within the areas influenced by certain hardline/extremist churches, yes, she is. Not that it stops her.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Another question; I've been mulling over the idea of a third generation of the gods, and I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on what would better fit the setting as so-far-described: to have these newer gods be the offspring of the second generation, or a new sort of god arrisen from the power of mortal beliefs, hopes, fears, and emotions?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Another question; I've been mulling over the idea of a third generation of the gods' date=' and I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on what would better fit the setting as so-far-described: to have these newer gods be the offspring of the second generation, or a new sort of god arrisen from the power of mortal beliefs, hopes, fears, and emotions?[/quote']

 

Why bother nailing it down? A little bit of schism among your priesthood is always good for storylines.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Why bother nailing it down? A little bit of schism among your priesthood is always good for storylines.

 

Because I need to know, to avoid problems behind the curtain.

[AlHazred]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Because I need to know' date=' to avoid problems behind the curtain.[/quote']

Be honest with you, I ran a three-year long Harn Hero campaign, in which gods and demons, and other dimensions, and ancient conspiracies, and heretic cults, all had a part. And, despite being the GM, I still don't know if the gods were really gods, or something else... I figure, if I don't know, well, there's no way I'll unduly influence the players in defining their characters. Worked, too.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

It might even end up so that some cultures believe a certain god is male, and others believe that the same god is female.

 

BTW, did anyone get the slight pun in the second half of the thread title?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

No.

[Markdoc]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

It might even end up so that some cultures believe a certain god is male, and others believe that the same god is female.

 

BTW, did anyone get the slight pun in the second half of the thread title?

 

Yes. I thought it was amusing, anyway

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

It might even end up so that some cultures believe a certain god is male, and others believe that the same god is female.

 

BTW, did anyone get the slight pun in the second half of the thread title?

 

When I first saw it I thought it was "barnstorming heaven."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says "Who is he trying to kid - half the time he still misreads it as barnstorming heaven."

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

A couple of people pointed out that the deities seem very elemental. That's actually no coincidence -- long ago, when I was first coming up with the setting, the first four gods we came up with were for the four "classic" elements.

[David Johnston]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Well, here's the start of a list I've been working on of fundamental human concerns that are likely going to attach themselves to a god or vice versa, assuming a relatively mature polytheism:

 

Fertility (Female childbearing).

Sexual potency (Male performance)

Agriculture

Good fortune

Recovery from illness

Justice/Punishment of wrongdoers

Protection for travellers.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Deity of Crafts (smithing, carpentry, etc.)

 

Deity of the Arts (music, painting, etc.)

 

Deity of War

 

Deity of Wisdom

 

Deity of Marriage and Childbirth

 

Deity of the Winds

 

Of course, some of these are broad categories; you can have gods that specialize in one of those aspects. Alternatively, you can have a powerful deity supervising the "specialists." That is, the earth god/goddess is the boss, and you have deities of animals, plants, rocks, etc. working for him or her.

 

Well, here's the start of a list I've been working on of fundamental human concerns that are likely going to attach themselves to a god or vice versa, assuming a relatively mature polytheism:

 

Fertility (Female childbearing).

Sexual potency (Male performance)

Agriculture

Good fortune

Recovery from illness

Justice/Punishment of wrongdoers

Protection for travellers.

 

Thanks guys.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Another question -- four minor deities for the seasons, or just one minor deity of the seasons?