Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

[Kristopher]

For a project in progress, I have a list of dieties, but I'm hitting a small block trying to flesh them out. I could use some ideas for the attributes, influences, concepts, relationships, personalities, and even genders of the following deities. Go ahead and brainstorm, give me your own ideas and/or the ideas held by various cultures and religions all over the world throughout history. Thank you.

 

Deity of the Sun

 

Deity of the Moon

 

Deity of Storms

 

Deity of the Seas

 

Deity of Earth

 

Deity of the Underworld and of Fire

 

Diety of Primordial Darkness

[tkdguy]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Deity of Crafts (smithing, carpentry, etc.)

 

Deity of the Arts (music, painting, etc.)

 

Deity of War

 

Deity of Wisdom

 

Deity of Marriage and Childbirth

 

Deity of the Winds

 

Of course, some of these are broad categories; you can have gods that specialize in one of those aspects. Alternatively, you can have a powerful deity supervising the "specialists." That is, the earth god/goddess is the boss, and you have deities of animals, plants, rocks, etc. working for him or her.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Deity of Crafts (smithing, carpentry, etc.)

 

Deity of the Arts (music, painting, etc.)

 

Deity of War

 

Deity of Wisdom

 

Deity of Marriage and Childbirth

 

Deity of the Winds

 

Of course, some of these are broad categories; you can have gods that specialize in one of those aspects. Alternatively, you can have a powerful deity supervising the "specialists." That is, the earth god/goddess is the boss, and you have deities of animals, plants, rocks, etc. working for him or her.

 

Thank you. I'll tack that on to the file.

 

What I'm really looking for at the moment is an expansion on each of the deities listed in my original post.

 

If anyone wants to answer the same questions I asked, but in reference to the additions made by tkdguy, please do.

[tkdguy]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Sorry, I misread your post. Here are my takes on them:

 

Deity of the Sun: Usually male (Apollo, Freyr, Ra); Amaterasu is a notable exception. Usually benevolent, as crops need the sun, and humans are generally active during the day. They can be oppressive at times, though.

 

Deity of the Moon: Usually female (Selene, Artemis); Amon is a notable exception. Sometimes portrayed as fickle, as reflected in the moon's phases.

 

Deity of Storms: Usually male (Thor, Marduk). Often warlike by nature, often have stories of their battles against giants or dragons.

 

Deity of the Seas: Usually male (Poseidon, Manannan Mac Lir). Somewhat unpredictable: calm one moment; raging the next.

 

Deity of Earth: Usually female (Gaea, Ceres); Geb is a notable exception. Usually benevolent.

 

Deity of the Underworld and of Fire: Can be male (Osiris, Hades, Arawn) or female (Hel). Usually associated with death. Can be cold and distant, or even benevolent, such as Osiris. Fire gods (Loki, Pele) are generally chaotic by nature.

 

Diety of Primordial Darkness: Can be male or female. Is portrayed as either the parent/creator of the gods, or the being/substance the gods subdue in order to create the world.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I'll go the Norse rout, if you don't mind.

Deity of the Sun,Deity of the Moon -- in Norse myth, these two were two human children, a sister and a brother, taken by the gods to drive the teams of the Sun and Moon, respectively. Their job was mainly to keep the celestial bodies safe from the two giant wolves, children of Fenrir, that were chasing them.

 

Deity of Storms -- Thor. Everyone knows Thor. Big, friendly and a bit . . . Behind . . . Uses thunder to slay Trolls and Giants to keep Mankind safe. Known as Friend-Of-Man.

 

Deity of the Seas -- Niord. Kept the winds in a sack in his house on the shore of the ocen and let them out in the mornings to let the fishermen sail for home. Married a Giant woman, Skadi, a woman who loved mountains and snow. This put some strain in their relationship, and they now have separate households. Apparently, originally Niord was a female deity, Nerthus, who got genderchanged somewhere in the Dark Ages.

 

Deity of Earth -- A difficult one . . . There's no myth that I am aware of that explicitly states the identity of this deity, except the one that says that Thor is a child of Odin by Earth. Fertility of the soil, now, is govened by Frey, and the fertility of Men and livestock by his sister Freya.

 

Now, an interesting tidbit -- Freya's absentee husband was called Odd, a byname of Odin. Odin's wife was Frigg -- a name some think cognate of Freya.

 

Deity of the Underworld and of Fire -- Two different deities, a parent and a daughter. The god of fire was Loki who, while distracting a working man so he couldn't earn his just rewards, turned into a mare and was . . . Impregnated by a stallion. He gave birth to three children -- The World Serpent, Fenrir the Wolf and Hel. She was cast down to the icy realms near the World Tree's roots, which came to bear her name. She collects to her all souls who dies an ignomious death, and they will, at the end of days, ride to war against the gods in a ship made of dead Men's nails -- Nagelfar. That is why all Men should keep their nails well- trimmed, for you don't know when your time is up, and if your nails are long then, you'll hurry on the Day of Doom.

 

Diety of Primordial Darkness -- These are the Giants, creatures of chaos and violence. They want nothing less than the destruction of the gods and all they have ordered.

[McCoy]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Deity of Earth -- A difficult one . . . There's no myth that I am aware of that explicitly states the identity of this deity' date=' except the one that says that Thor is a child of Odin by Earth. Fertility of the soil, now, is govened by Frey, and the fertility of Men and livestock by his sister Freya.[/quote']

Not to mention that Skyfather/Earthmother is a recurrent theme in many cultures.

 

So in your mythos the Storm/Sky/rain diety will probably be the husband or consort of the Earth/fertility goddess.

 

Sun/Moon could be brother and sister, or husband and wife, or starcrossed lovers who can consumate their love only during an eclipse (a time of ill omen). Or a combination of the above, the Greek and Egyptian pantheons were somewhat incesteous.

 

Your fire god is probably going to be the trickster figure of the pantheon, reflecting the nature of fire, useful servant, terrible master, treacherous ally.

 

Who's the ruling diety? If Primal Darkness is the "Old God," father and mother of the others, the Sun God may have lead his/her children in rebellion, banished him/her from half the world, and may now be the ruler of the pantheon, in which case he would also be the War god.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

As an aside, I combined Underworld and Fire in one diety because I like the dichotomies of cold and heat, and of darkness and light, and because the depths of the world are a home of fire (magma).

 

I'm not certain about the lineages of the various dieties. I do know that I want most of them, with the exception of the Primal Darkness, to be siblings, and to be fairly equal in power, vying for prominence (in their own halls and amongst the mortals) rather than one having it by default.

 

I'm not sure about the status of any deity as a Father or Mother deity.

 

Primal Darkness is amorphous and without inherent gender, and I've considered having the Deity of Underworld and Fire be the child of a liason between one of the "young" gods and Darkness.

[McCoy]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

For a project in progress, I have a list of dieties, but I'm hitting a small block trying to flesh them out. I could use some ideas for the attributes, influences, concepts, relationships, personalities, and even genders of the following deities. Go ahead and brainstorm, give me your own ideas and/or the ideas held by various cultures and religions all over the world throughout history. Thank you.

 

Deity of the Sun

 

Deity of the Moon

 

Deity of Storms

 

Deity of the Seas

 

Deity of Earth

 

Deity of the Underworld and of Fire

 

Diety of Primordial Darkness

OK, Darkness, hermaproditic first diety. Parthenogenic Father and mother to the other six. Patron of monsters, nightmares, trechery, and deeds done in secret.

 

Sun God Led the rebellion of the other Gods against their chaotic parent. Banished Darkness from "half the world." The all seeing. Also chief war god. Married to his sister, the Moon Goddess.

 

Moon Goddess Lover and supporter of the Sun God, she persued Darkness into his exile, taking the battle to him when her brother/husband could not. She was wounded, and cursed, in that battle, and some say raped. Her power now waxes and wains, and the closer she gets to her husband, the weaker her power. In the rare times she and her husband can consumate their love, Darkness can return to the whole world. It is said that she was raped by her fater, and forced to give birth to a race of monsters. Still when her powers are at their peak, she fearlessly persues Darkness into its exile.

 

Storm God Brother of the Sun and Mood dieties. Usually on good terms with his brother, sometimes makes brief challenges for supremacy, during those times the clouds block out the sun. But like many family squabbles, it passes quickly. If Sun is the God of War, Storm is the God of Soldiers; Sun develops the strategy and tactics, Storm carries them out. In an elemental system he is the patron of the element of air.

 

Earth Goddess is the wife of the Storm God. Goddess of elemental earth (and wood in a feng shui system). Goddess of fertility, agriculture, and motherhood. Storm and Earth are the parents of the Mortal races, Men and Beasts. (If their are elf equlivents, some say Earth is their mother, others that Earth is their foster mother, who nurtured them after Moon gave birth to them, but was unable to nurse them herself.) She loves all her children and fosterlings, and will sometimes protect even the monsters who are the enemies of the other gods. She understands some mortals must eat others, and will bless the Hunter or Preditor as long as they respect the Prey (hunting a species near or to extinction will incure her wrath).

 

Sea God has no mate of his own rank, and some say this accounts for his uneven disposition. He is the patron of sailors (and by extension all merchants and messengers), fishermen, and explorers. Some say that in their youth he and Strom were lovers in the manner of boys, and for this reason Sea is still the patron of those men who do not desire women. It is said that he lust for Moon, but that she has no more than a siblingly affection for him. Nevertheless, of all his sibs she has the most influence over him. Elemental God of water.

 

Underworld and Fire God He is said to be Darkness' favorite child, The only one of the Gods still on good terms with him/her (or with one foot on each side of the conflict and loyal to neither, say some). He has offered his parent sanctuary, and has forbidden his brother or sister from persuing him/her into his relm. Elemental god of fire (and metal in a feng shui system). Patron of miners, smiths, and craftsmen, all who Make rather than Hunt or Gather (including such crafts as weaving, which would seem to have no relationship to fire). If Sun is the God of War and Storm the God of Soldiers, Fire is the munitions manufacturer. He invented all weapons, including the bows with the arrows of light that Sun and Moon use against Darkness (but again, the price that he demanded for these weapons is that they would not bring them into his underworld). He is also the Trickster figure, the one most likely to think outside the box or use the indirect solution. (If there are Dwarf equlivents, they are the children of Fire, who went to his sister Earth in the form of her husband Storm). While all other gods, including Darkness, are on good terms with Fire, none of them trust him completely.

 

Hope you can use some of that.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Deity of the Sun: This is classically done as a male figure (Helios, Sol, Apollo, Ra) in reference to the last question I just answered (good & evil paradigms) I would consider making this a Female power, warmth of a mother's love and all that sort of thing. You can really go in some new directions by changing this deity structure and introducing some new mythology - for example, the Sun and the Earth are married, and we flip their genders. Now it's the Old Oak Tree who is male and represents Earthly Power.

 

Deity of the Moon: As a Pagan, I revere Luna for her tidal power and mystical influence, as well as the obvious ties to lycanthropy. There are many Lunar concepts out there, from the Maiden/Maid/Crone, to the Five Phases of White Wolf; I'd blend this one. Lend her a touch of Madness, and make her the watcher of the fools and fools errands.

 

Deity of Storms: I'll steal a page straight from Forgotten Realms and opt to blend the Deity of Storms with the Deity of War. Nothing says War quite like thunder, lighting and the chaos & destruction that can be caused. And, if you wish to keep the Venus/Ares combination, then I would have the God of Storms in love with/perpetually struggling with the Deity of Seas - specifically, his ex-wife (to get a little modern day concept in there).

 

Deity of the Seas: A woman, maybe even a middle aged woman (making her representative of the agelessness of the sea - she's "middle aged" but clearly still spry. She's a source of life, she hates her ex husband, who went running off the Deity of Underworld and of Fire - considered her more in line with what he thought he was about. War/Storm is also symbolic of the troubles of youth - all that raging energy, a match with the Sea is poor and makes for decent drama.

 

Deity of Earth: I flipped this to male (as opposed to Gaea, generally a female figure) and went ahead and paired him with the sun - warmth + earth = life, so you have a dynamic representative of "real life" (man + woman/male + female creates life).

 

Deity of the Underworld and of Fire: This is one of the few deities who can be seen one way or another (there are so many Femme Fatales it boggles the mind). I would make this your evil seductress and at the same time, totally misunderstood. She has her agenda, but it takes PEOPLE to make SOULS. So destruction really isn't her thing. Probably the closest to the Deity of Primordial Darkness who...

 

Diety of Primordial Darkness : No one knows a THING about. it's completely blank, no one has any information, just fervent belief in one thing or another. Generally not recognized by the populace. Because it's good to have a giant question mark in a system of otherwise clealry defined symbols.

[Lucius]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

For a project in progress, I have a list of dieties, but I'm hitting a small block trying to flesh them out. I could use some ideas for the attributes, influences, concepts, relationships, personalities, and even genders of the following deities. Go ahead and brainstorm, give me your own ideas and/or the ideas held by various cultures and religions all over the world throughout history. Thank you.

 

Deity of the Sun

 

Deity of the Moon

 

Deity of Storms

 

Deity of the Seas

 

Deity of Earth

 

Deity of the Underworld and of Fire

 

Diety of Primordial Darkness

 

Two things strike me as interesting.

 

First, the conflation of Underworld and Fire. Hades and Hephaestus are certainly not the same person in Greek myth for example.

 

Second that Primordial Darkness is NOT associated with the Underworld.

 

Sorry, I misread your post. Here are my takes on them:

 

Deity of the Sun: Usually male (Apollo, Freyr, Ra); Amaterasu is a notable exception. Usually benevolent, as crops need the sun, and humans are generally active during the day. They can be oppressive at times, though.

 

Deity of the Moon: Usually female (Selene, Artemis); Amon is a notable exception. Sometimes portrayed as fickle, as reflected in the moon's phases.

.

 

I don’t think this is quite as near-universal as you seem to think. The Classical cultures (Greek and Roman) are actually the notable exceptions; but they have been so influential in modern Western culture that we tend to view female Suns and male Moons as “the notable exceptions” although cross-culturally I’m told they are not that uncommon.

 

The female monthly cycle is sometimes attributed to the Moon God having carnal relations with all women of childbearing years, on a monthly basis.

 

 

 

I'll go the Norse rout, if you don't mind.

 

Deity of the Underworld and of Fire -- Two different deities, a parent and a daughter. The god of fire was Loki who, while distracting a working man so he couldn't earn his just rewards, turned into a mare and was . . . Impregnated by a stallion. He gave birth to three children -- The World Serpent, Fenrir the Wolf and Hel. She was cast down to the icy realms near the World Tree's roots, which came to bear her name. She collects to her all souls who dies an ignomious death, and they will, at the end of days, ride to war against the gods in a ship made of dead Men's nails -- Nagelfar. That is why all Men should keep their nails well- trimmed, for you don't know when your time is up, and if your nails are long then, you'll hurry on the Day of Doom.

 

.

 

Wasn’t Loki also the mother of Sleipnir, Odin’s eight legged horse?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Pondering the palindromedary's affinity with Janus

[L. Marcus]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Wasn’t Loki also the mother of Sleipnir' date=' Odin’s eight legged horse?[/quote']Yeah . . . The story I told before was for the conception of Sleipnir . . . The three monsters were born after Loki ate the heart of the Giant wich Angerboda. My bad . . .

Pondering the palindromedary's affinity with Janus

. . . First name Hugh?

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Two things strike me as interesting.

 

First, the conflation of Underworld and Fire. Hades and Hephaestus are certainly not the same person in Greek myth for example.

 

It goes way back to when I was first trying to come up with this setting. Partially because of the presence of fire (magma) deep underground, and partially because I really like the dichotomy between the light of fire and the darkness of undergound. I like how it ties in the source of metal with the fire of the forge.

 

Second that Primordial Darkness is NOT associated with the Underworld.

 

It ends up needing to be seperate because of the aforementioned dichotomy of aspects that I like, and because I want the underworld/fire deity to be one of the same group of gods as the others, while the primordial darkness is a seperate entity altogether.

[AlHazred]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I would recommend avoiding the "for every [ahem] class a deity" trope which seems to dominate in cookie-cutter settings. When I design a setting, I borrow heavily from real-world mythological sources and file off the serial numbers. Combine interesting bits that seem strangely compatible from completely different deities. Try the lore of mystery religions and synthesis religions for more esoteric religious doctrines. That sort of thing.

 

From your basic premise, I see a number of dependencies. First of all, your God of Primal Darkness should definitely be "Mother of Monsters" in that his/her creatures should be alien to the current crop of races/gods. The Norse gods had their Giants, the Greek gods the Titans, and so on; most real-world mythologies have stories about the "displaced gods," possibly but not necessarily based on previous religions that were conquered. Putting something like this in gives you plenty of future development space, too - conquerors rarely pay much attention to the specifics of the peoples they displace.

 

Secondly, you might consider an Elemental axis to your religion. You have a god of Storm (Wind), the Seas (Water), Earth, and the Underworld/Fire. It's an interesting setup. My GM-brain is intrigued with the Underworld/Fire pairing - since the Underworld is the Repository of Old Things, it implies some age for the deity of Fire; perhaps this was one of the first gods. I like the idea that the deity of Fire perhaps "sparked" the rebellion of the gods that led to the current order - the whole "let there be Light" thing in overdrive. If so, perhaps he is in the protector of the Underworld and its denizens. If the souls of the mortal races are drawn to the Primordial Darkness (a terrifying and awful place - RE: mankind's instinctive fear of the Dark), then having the Deity of Fire as the Underworld God implies that he stops the souls from their final descent into Darkness, providing them a place where they may rest "on the brink," perhaps waiting for the prophesied Final War between the Gods and the creatures of Primordial Darkness. His child, the Sun God/dess brings his glory to the mortal world every day, then returns to the father god to report on the progress of the mortal races against the Dark. The Moon God/dess is the Guardian of the Night, reflecting the light of the Fire/Underworld god to the mortal realms when the power of Primordial Darkness is strongest; perhaps a warrior god as well, primarily for those who fight evil.

 

From this standpoint, any of them could be warrior gods or scholar gods. I like this kind of variability, since it leads to more interesting roleplaying. Storm, Seas, and Earth all have both beneficial and destructive aspects that would be respectively called upon or warded against by worshippers. It also frees you up to give them personalities as variable as you wish - you don't have to give them the cookie-cutter "warrior personality," "scholary personality," "healing/nurturing personality," etc.

 

Oh, and I'd expect that followers of this religion always cremate their dead.

 

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Hope this helps.

[McCoy]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Oh' date=' and I'd expect that followers of this religion always cremate their dead.[/quote']

As a rule of thumb (exceptions abound), cultures who believe in an eternal afterlife/ressurection bury thier dead, those who believe in reincarnation cremate. Burial or cremation have the same symbolism in this case, giving the deceased into the care of the underworld/fire god[ess].

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

For anyone who didn't notice, I started this thread at the same time, and now that I have some very interesting, informative, and creative answers -- four pages worth of notes -- I guess I should actually get into detail on what I'm working on and what I had in mind before I started this thread. I'm hoping that I'll continue to get the high-quality concepts and ideas you've been giving me so far.

 

This is work on the setting for the novel I'm (slowly) writing. As much as I hesitate to put this in public view, I need to get some feedback and that's never going to happen here (physical here, not NGDB here). So please, keep letting me know what you think and filling in details.

 

The Dark existed before time, before space, before anything. It was into The Dark that the gods came, at the beginning of time. Where they came from, I don't know yet, I may leave it as one of the things men do not know within the setting itself -- "Where they came from, no man is certain. Some say..."

 

There were two gods then, Father and Mother. Everything about The Dark, they strove to undo, so they brought forth Sun and Moon against the darkness, and Earth against the nothingness, and Storm and Sea against the stillness.

 

Fire/Underworld was conceived out of deceit -- The Dark took the form of Father for a night, and Fire was born of its union with Mother. Why The Dark did this depends on whom you ask, but that mixed parentage is why Fire/Underworld holds light in one hand and darkness in the other, life and death...why she is the goddess of dichotomy and deceit. Even if they knew her true parentage, her siblings would dare not act to harm her, for she would unleash the fires of the depths, and the souls of the dead, upon the world.

 

The Dark also created its own children, out of the infinite void by its will alone. Night, and Shadow, and Twilight, and Dusk, and others it created, in secret, hidden from the view of the gods.

 

On Earth's sphere, the children of Father and Mother created life, and people. There are humans, favored by Sun, and so called the Sun People, but also favored by Earth -- and so sometimes called Mud People by others as an insult. There are the Moon People, who serve as the elf-equivalent. There are the Fire People -- short, thin, pale, living in the depths of the world and working the forge. There are the Storm People, and the Sea People, as well, but I haven't had a need to really detail them yet, and I might have humans fill those rolls as well, via different cultures, not sure yet. The Dark's children also created people -- the Twilight People.

 

There came a time when Father and Mother decided to wipe out the "dark stain" on their world, to destroy the Twilight People. In the final battle of that war, when the gods strode the world in manifest form for the last time, at the site of the old capital of the Twilight nation, The Dark's four greatest children sacrificed themselves to destroy Father and Mother, becoming the Dead Gods that the Twilight People still honor today, although it cannot be said that they worship anything or anyone -- certainly, The Dark has no need for reverence.

 

Father and Mother are gone, leaving only their children. The Dark still exists...distant, eldritch, inscrutable.

 

There is a great deal of mistrust, even hatred, of the Twilight People, and there are many lies and distortions -- necromancy, necrophilia, death magic, death worship, that they're all half-dead creatures already -- not having been born of the "true gods". This prejudice is disproportionately common within the Western Church of The Sun, and amongst the humans of the western continent.

 

 

The protagonist of the story is Twilight by birth, but according to her mother, her father was a ghost of something ancient and of The Dark, somehow walking the mortal world in a mortal guise. She was born almost drained of color, with white hair and eyes the color of blood and fire...and the odd powers she exhibits certainly lend credence to her mother's claim.

 

 

Copyright KWG, 1992-2006, blah blah blah.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I was going to make the Sun deity male, the Earth deity female, the Storm deity male, and so on, but I'm intrigued by the suggestion of reversing some of those from the what seems to be the common idea of skyfather/earthmother.

 

I'm hoping that the same people who presented the first page of ideas will come back and offer feedback, suggestions, and opinions regarding the rough outline I posted. Is there anything in real-world mythology it reminds you of? Anything that just strikes you as "wrong"?

[Pavanne]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I would highly recommend inventing a separate diety for war. It has far too great an impact on human behavior to "slough off" on some other-wise occupied diety.

[McCoy]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I would highly recommend inventing a separate diety for war. It has far too great an impact on human behavior to "slough off" on some other-wise occupied diety.

Like monotheistic societies don't pray for victory.

 

The way he has this cosmology set up, every diety is a war diety. Hostilities in the heavens are ongoing. The pacifist gods probably died before they got their first worshiper.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I would highly recommend inventing a separate diety for war. It has far too great an impact on human behavior to "slough off" on some other-wise occupied diety.

 

The way he has this cosmology set up' date=' every diety is a war diety. Hostilities in the heavens are ongoing. The pacifist gods probably died before they got their first worshiper.[/quote']

 

From this standpoint' date=' any of them could be warrior gods or scholar gods. I like this kind of variability, since it leads to more interesting roleplaying. Storm, Seas, and Earth all have both beneficial and destructive aspects that would be respectively called upon or warded against by worshippers. It also frees you up to give them personalities as variable as you wish - you don't have to give them the cookie-cutter "warrior personality," "scholary personality," "healing/nurturing personality," etc.[/quote']

 

McCoy and AlHazred both have it pretty right, at least for the cosmology I have in mind. They're all to some degree warriors, scholars, healers, etc.

 

The remaining gods and the remaining entities created by The Dark are probably in a cold war of sorts since the aforementioned battle, using mortals as their proxies far more often than they act directly. And it's not as if the gods themselves don't have conflicts amongst themselves.

[David Johnston]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I would highly recommend inventing a separate diety for war. It has far too great an impact on human behavior to "slough off" on some other-wise occupied diety.

 

It is extremely routine for a war god to have some other portfolio if it is to gather much in the way of worship. Astarte was goddess of love and war, Mars was god of young men, as much a patron of farming as he was of warfare, Tyr was primarily god of oaths and so forth. Ares was unusual in his exclusive focus on war, and he was not in fact particularly popular. Athena was a far more popular military deity outside of Sparta.

 

However, this particular pantheon is pretty elementary. If you look at real ones, while they almost all have sun or sky gods, cthonian deities, sea gods and something representing fire, they also have harvest deities, patrons of love or marriage, trickster gods, gods of the hunt, virginity, archery, travel, music, mercantile honesty. Now, often elemental gods will pick up these more human interests as subsidiary portfolios, or vice versa. For example Artemis apparently started as a hunt goddess and as she became more important picked up the Moon as her subsidiary portfolio. But it is extremely rare for a polytheistic religion to only have elemental deities.

 

Incidentally, in order to decide that magma is something endemic to the underworld, the population would probably have to live in a land with many volcanoes.

[Inu]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I like that there's crossover between 'portfolios', without all gods ahving to stand out. That's pretty good. If you look at mythologies in RL, most of them have evolved over time, or even been smooshed together from multiple ones. This is particularly true of Egyptian mythology (Who's the sun god? Well, what dynasty are you talking about, and do you mean southern or northern Egypt?), and Greek (where each city was more or less a different nation, and the mythologies merged).

 

So the history of the pantheon, and those who worshipped them, might be something to think about. Some of this depends on whether the gods are real, and if the stories about them are 100% true or not. But even then, heaven and earth might relate somehow. When two tribes met, a thousand years ago, perhaps they warred for a while, then made peace and grew together... and they started saying that their chief deities (a man and a woman, respectively), were brother and sister, or got married. This may well be true, as the two pantheons, realising that their people were going to mingle, figured they may as well mingle themselves.

 

Or, perhaps, events in heaven are more important than those on earth, and one pantheon just dies out, or continues as an alternate religion. Depends on the history of your setting whether you even have to think about this, however.

 

But basicaly, cultures will expand, or be taken over... so what happens to the old gods? having a living, breathing cosmology can be a way for players to grasp the system and bring out the life in it, however it's done (if you want events on earth to affect the gods themselves, I recommend some manner of 'as you do on earth, so shall it be in heaven' kind of agreement).

 

Another important consideration is: how does the ordinary person interact with the gods? Even if they never meet gods (or if no-one ever does), there's still interaction in the form of prayer, sacrifice, or whatever. Do people have geographic ties to gods (like Athens and Athena), or historical ties, or is it 'pick and choose according to what helps you more'? The latter isn't just gamist, of course, it could work very well for your setting: for an example of this, check out the Orlanthi barbarian mythology of Glorantha. While certain tribes or clans might have particular historical/mythological ties to particular deities (one clan might only elect chieftains from particular cults, for instance), basically, the individual is initiated to a cult that reflects who they are and what they do. If you're a farmer, you join the cult of Barntar, or Orlanthcarl. If you're a warrior, you worship a warlike god (of which there are many). The list goes on.

 

In fact, I recommend checking out Glorantha no matter what: it's a well-developed mythology and system of deities that will at least provide a solid grounding in what's available (including multiplying the number of available cults by splitting one deity up into aspects, or even sub-aspects, depending on how important they are. Hence, Orlanth, the chief god, is worshipped in his capacity as a warrior, as a leader/father, or as the wind itself. Inside those aspects are cults for types of warrior, types of leader/father and types of wind!). Contributed to over the years by some very smart people, including a number of anthropologists.

 

Can people worship multiple gods, do they worship the pantheon as a whole, or do they pick and choose? For instance, would someone say 'I am a follower of Storm God' or would they say 'I am a follower of the pantheon, but I hold to the tenets of Storm God'? Or are there multiple theologies inside the one pantheon: 'I am a worshipper of the pantheon, via the teachings of Old Philospher, which prizes Storm God above all, but also sees a lot of importance in Sun God and Sea God.' If they worship one god, do they still sacrifice/pray/etc to the others? Or is this situational -- when setting out on a sea voyage, will everyone, no matter who they worship directly, sacrifice to Sea God?

 

Also: is this the only pantheon in the world? Are there enemy gods? Are there people in the world who have different beliefs? Do they worship the same gods in different ways (Wotan v Odin) or do they worship other ones entirely? Are those gods the same kind of being as these gods (to use Norse terms, are they all Aesir) or do they have different origins? Or are other deities fundamentally different beings? (Say, one culture worships Aesir, another worships powerful mortals ascended to divinity, another worships powerful spirits from the spirit world.)

 

Do people on earth know the whole truth, or is truth subjective (one religion says the earth was created from the primal giant's skull, another says it came from an egg. Are they both right, one right, or none right?).

 

If there are multiple pantheons of gods worshipped by other cultures, what are the relations between them? Are any of the gods from this pantheon worshipped by other pantheons as well? Are different myths told about them? Have they ever been at war? If they are at war, have they always been at war? Was the war started for divine reasons or mortal ones? Are they fighting because the deities are fundamentally opposed to each other, or because of philosophical differences, or simply because their people compete for resources? How intimiately tied to their worshippers are gods, anyway? If their people are wiped out, will they survive? Will they be absorbed into the conquering pantheon? Or will they just fade away? (Feeds back into some of the earlier questions asked.)

 

I have more, but that's probably enough for now. It's also not exactly what you asked for, but I thought I'd get all that down, anyway. It's stuff that's been bumbling around in my head for ages.

 

Btw, going against RPG standards can be hard. In my own game, the pantheon is more important than the individual god worshipped. I still have trouble convincing people that 'no, this guy is a priest of the Church of Traladara. His church building is dedicated in particular to Petra, but that doesn't make him a priest of Petra; just means that she's particularly important to this site, no different to a church in the real world being dedicated to a saint.' Yet they still refer to him as 'a priest of Petra', and ask me what various priests' patron deities are. I'll get it through to them eventually!

[Hermit]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

Well, Kristopher, I think its interesting. I second the question on how worship , the religion OF the deities works in this world, because that will have an effect on the culture you're writing and even the prejudices your protaganist will face. Sounds like the poor girl is already heresy on two legs.

[tkdguy]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

I don’t think this is quite as near-universal as you seem to think. The Classical cultures (Greek and Roman) are actually the notable exceptions; but they have been so influential in modern Western culture that we tend to view female Suns and male Moons as “the notable exceptions” although cross-culturally I’m told they are not that uncommon.

 

The female monthly cycle is sometimes attributed to the Moon God having carnal relations with all women of childbearing years, on a monthly basis.

 

Interesting. Thanks for setting the record straight.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

It is extremely routine for a war god to have some other portfolio if it is to gather much in the way of worship. Astarte was goddess of love and war' date=' Mars was god of young men, as much a patron of farming as he was of warfare, Tyr was primarily god of oaths and so forth. Ares was unusual in his exclusive focus on war, and he was not in fact particularly popular. Athena was a far more popular military deity outside of Sparta.[/quote']

 

Looking at the lists of deities from various mythologies, it seems that many of them have multiple deities for multiple aspects or kinds of wars, or warriors, or whatever.

 

However, this particular pantheon is pretty elementary. If you look at real ones, while they almost all have sun or sky gods, cthonian deities, sea gods and something representing fire, they also have harvest deities, patrons of love or marriage, trickster gods, gods of the hunt, virginity, archery, travel, music, mercantile honesty. Now, often elemental gods will pick up these more human interests as subsidiary portfolios, or vice versa. For example Artemis apparently started as a hunt goddess and as she became more important picked up the Moon as her subsidiary portfolio. But it is extremely rare for a polytheistic religion to only have elemental deities.

 

Any suggestions, given what's already there, for additional deities? They'd most likely be children of the existing gods. That's part of where I'm stuck, and even a suggestion I don't use will often help me get to something I can.

 

Incidentally, in order to decide that magma is something endemic to the underworld, the population would probably have to live in a land with many volcanoes.

 

In the case of this particular setting, it's not the mortals who decided those basic associations.

[Kristopher]

Re: Deities in Detail -- Brainstorming Heaven

 

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