Movement usable as an Attack

[Blue]

Hello again,

 

One of my players wants to build an attack that is an entangle WITH a flight usable against others. The special effect would be encasing someone in a bubble and then just floating them away. Clever, no?

 

So our hero sticks the guy in a bubble. Then the linked Flight UAO kicks in and the guy begins to float away. Do I charge him a movement action?

 

Next phase if he wants to float him further away, do I charge him an action (since this is now usuable as an attack) or do I observe movement rules since this is really a movement?

 

I'm going to suggest possibly persistent/uncontrolled advantages, but I'm sure I'm going to be asked how the effect works right now without them.

 

I'm thinking that, as is, it would go like this: Hero makes attack and wraps up foe (half phase), linked movement power kicks in; he can push the individual half the movement rate and thus end the turn. Next phase he can push him half the distance for half an action or full distance for a full action. Am I right?

[Talon]

By default Flight is continuous, so the attacker just has to pay END and maintain LOS. He can move the character the full Flight distance each round as a zero Phase action.

 

With Uncontrolled, the Flight would continue even if the attacker loses LOS (or is knocked out, etc.). It does sound like Uncontrolled would make sense.

[Blue]

Makes sense. Thanks!

[Kintara]

Shouldn't Telekinesis be used instead, or am I missing something?

[Killer Shrike]

TK I would say

 

 

Also, Blue, I would highly recommend treating Flight UAA as a Stop Sign power. After some abuses, I only allow it in limited situations personally.

 

Movement usable as an attack is one of the most ridiculously powerful constructs the game allows.

[Talon]

I think this could be a reasonable use of Flight UAA.

 

Firstly, there's a quite reasonable condition to end the UAA -- breaking out of the Entangle. Unless the Entangle is pushing campaign limits, this should keep the power under control.

 

Second, I would keep the amount of Flight fairly low, since it's just a bubble (or limit it based on wind speed). If the character is only moving a few inches per Phase, it shouldn't be a big deal.

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare

I think this could be a reasonable use of Flight UAA.

 

I agree. And I also think that there are other special effects that just don't work using TK instead of Flight UAA, like many antigravity effects. Flight UAA is definitely not a point-balanced construct, but it doesn't deserve the taboo status it's received.

 

-AA

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare

I think this could be a reasonable use of Flight UAA.

 

Firstly, there's a quite reasonable condition to end the UAA -- breaking out of the Entangle. Unless the Entangle is pushing campaign limits, this should keep the power under control.

 

Second, I would keep the amount of Flight fairly low, since it's just a bubble (or limit it based on wind speed). If the character is only moving a few inches per Phase, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Exactly. If it is escapable by a direct means such as this, and the flight isnt high enough to send someone into orbit or catapult them directly into a wall (or anther opponent) to force the target to do a nasty move thru on something that will hurt them badly, its probably ok. Provisionally, and with an eye towards abuse as the game plays out. So, with lots of corrolarys this sort of thing can work out, but otherwise if left unrestricted its absurdly nasty.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Unless the Flight is continuously controlled by the 'enbubbling' character, I'd set it Uncontrolled; entangle/bubble and *poof*, off they float. Flight, of course, cuts out when the entangle does -- the bubble pops. Flight would ALSO be negated (or at least suspended) if the character had a version of Flight that could be used even though their limbs were snagged -- unconscious gravitic negation, self-mobility TK, whatever. However, until the entangle is 100% negated, I'd say that the Flight would ALWAYS be available/there -- if subject to prevailing winds.

 

I'd also be tempted to put a limitation on this; the Flight would eventually (within a set period of time, defined somehow by the BOD on the entangle) sink to the ground and the whole thing would go away -- the bubble would pop. Possibly this could be built as a 'No Defense' Limitation, or as a Susceptible/Vulnerable Limitation. Or, of course, you could just create a new Limitation, 'Loses 1 Body / Minute (-¾)' or something.

 

The 'bubble' should also use the 'Does Not Prevent The Use of Accessible Foci (-1)' limitation. All in all, you could get it quite high initially, what with all the limitations that are getting heaped on it ...

 

'Boy in the Bubble': Entangle 5d6, Does Not Prevent The Use of Accessible Foci (-1), Loses 1 Body per Turn (-¾), Cannot Form Barriers (-¼), No Defense (-1½): 11 points. Average Body of the Entangle is 5.

 

I have to admit that unfortunately, Entangles are very expensive creatures to build, and always have been. *sighs* So much for the nonviolent methods.

[TedJMill]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Also, Blue, I would highly recommend treating Flight UAA as a Stop Sign power. After some abuses, I only allow it in limited situations personally.

 

Movement usable as an attack is one of the most ridiculously powerful constructs the game allows.

 

Yes, it's different, and thus much more powerful, than most other UAAs. Other UAAs rely on the side effects of an otherwise useful power. There's a downside to growing, or shrinking, or becoming desolid, or whatever, and taking them as UAA inflicts that downside on an enemy, along with the beneficial aspects.

 

But the effect of Flight UAA is not a normal downside of the flight power; characters with flight don't have to worry about floating in the air unable to control themselves. It's more like inflicting someone with a major disadvantage than like giving them a power with negative aspects. So I'd charge for Flight UAA based on the cost of similar powers that greatly impair an adversary, rather than what the cost of Flight plus the UAA advantage normally would be.

[Killer Shrike]

My main problem with Flight UAA is that it is basically TK with infinite Strength when used against living creatures.

 

All of the Movement as Attack options can be viciously effective, but Flight UAA specifically takes the cake IMO.

[Narthon]

I have some real problems with flight as an attack.

What's to prevent you from putting megascale on it and sending someone oh, 10 trillion km away a segement. Those agents are in trouble.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Narthon

I have some real problems with flight as an attack.

What's to prevent you from putting megascale on it and sending someone oh, 10 trillion km away a segement. Those agents are in trouble.

None whatsoever outside of GM veto.

 

Imagine a BIG STOP SIGN

[BobGreenwade]

The difference between using Movement Powers UAA and using Telekinesis is that the former will move every target the same distance regardless of mass, while the latter will move smaller targets longer distances. Thus Telekinesis is not the appropriate choice for this.

 

However, rather than Flight UAA, I'd suggest using Gliding UAA, with Continuous (+1) and a Subject To Winds Limitation (-1/4) (and probably other Modifiers as well).