Warpcore Breach Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 I am getting ready to order a copy of the new Hero System rules to play Champions. I have been looking at the boards and other places for stats on Marvel and DC characters and plot hooks and such. My question is this: How much difference is there between 4th? edition characters and new ones? Will my players need to redo their characters before we start? They have never played Champions bofore so I hope I heven't confused them too badly by switching editions. Also, I understand that the new standard for Supers has been upped to 350 pts. We were going to play at 300 with 70 active pts limit but, I'm going to try using "The Rule of X" from the Fuzion Champions system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book Careful, mixing Fuzion & Hero is like dividing by zero. There's a good chance for burning off your eyebrows and the scent of burnt mylar is horrible and lingering. Anyway, it shouldn't be too tricky to convert 4th to 5th. You can always grandfather in a few bonus points here and there to cover changing power costs. As long as the relative damage classes remain consistent, it should work out fine. As to write-ups for Marvel & such, just watch out pitting 700pt Sam Bell write-ups vs 250 Matt Ignash ones and it'll be OK, I'd think. As to giving them 350 rather than 300 pts, if they've got their characters already figured out, encourage them to spend those points to round out abilities, skills & talents rather than bulking up the DCs & Defenses. This lets people toss in that language skill they had to drop or buy the police chief as a contact/favor combo after they saved his life back in '98 or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpcore Breach Posted October 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book The Rule of X is the only thing I'm bringing from the other system. It finally made truly balancing Champions characters possible. One other question I've had was: How frowned upon is putting Characteristics as Powers in an Elemental Control if the character has a Mutlipower as well? Of course this may be useless if the new books have another system for doing Strength Tricks like Footstomping and Hand Clapping or other types of cool maneuvers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book Welcome, oh Breached One! Always nice to see a veteran HEROphile returning to the fold. The two editions of Champions are still about 90% compatible, and all the core mechanics still work the same way, so converting between the two of them isn't hard. This webpage contains a very good summary of the changes from 4E to 5E, which should give you enough warning of what to watch out for: http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm If you players are brand new to HERO System as well as to Fifth Edition, you might want to pick up the HERO System Sidekick, a greatly streamlined and simplified introductory version of the rules, specifically designed to teach the game to newcomers. It comes in deadtree version for $15.00 US (for 128 pages), or as a downloadable PDF for a mere $7.00 from Hero Games's Online Store. BTW if you want to check out HERO writeups of various published comic characters, may I suggest that you follow the link in my signature, below? After clicking on that and scrolling down to the bottom of the list, to PUBLISHED COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS, you'll find links to a great many such writeups posted on the Internet, some of which you may not be aware of. And please feel free to return with any further questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book Welcome Valkyrie... er, Warpcore Breach! What is the Rule of X? I have Champions 3rd edition from 1984. I can understand 80% to 90% of what is on these boards. Upgrading from 4th should be no problem, although I've never played 4th myself so I can't say for sure. Also, I think you could probably play using 4th rules if you wanted to. Save a few shekels and see if you like the new books out before upgrading to the huge 5th Revised monster. FYI: You do understand that the rules are now called Hero System 5th Revised, don't you? Champions is now a genre supplement with very little rules, and only those that relate specifically to the super hero genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book The Rule of X is the only thing I'm bringing from the other system. It finally made truly balancing Champions characters possible. One other question I've had was: How frowned upon is putting Characteristics as Powers in an Elemental Control if the character has a Mutlipower as well? Of course this may be useless if the new books have another system for doing Strength Tricks like Footstomping and Hand Clapping or other types of cool maneuvers. Characteristics in an EC is a big no-no in 5e, regardless of multipowers. As for strength tricks, the usual way to do them is as either using HA/EB/whatever as a base, or ( if the GM permits ), Naked Advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book Well, the Big Blue Book has four things that are worth keeping. 1) The Character Creation Checklist. 2) The Campaign Parameters and Themes 3) The Rules for Holding Actions. (In 5th edition, you can't cross over a held action into a new phase, you have to perform a cover maneuver. The only thing this rewards is DEX escalation, or buying an additional +2 OCV, only to counter the penalties from the cover maneuver) 4) The base power levels. Everything in 4th Edition was done on a 2 die staging system, which was fabulous. Joe PC had 10-11d6. Villains had 10-12 d6. Tough Heroes threw 12d6, and the mightiest heroes and villains threw about 14d6. A master villain or giant monster threw 16-18d6, and god forbid anything should roll 20. My players, for the most part, think everything in 5th edition is massively overpowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book Welcome Valkyrie... er, Warpcore Breach! What is the Rule of X? The Rule of X is a benchmarking system where the GM sets a value for X and PCs aren't supposed to exceed it with a formula like (DC + OCV + SPD = X) It's more of a guideline than a rule, but it's better than nothing. It gives novice GMs or players a quick handle to judge character designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book There are Rules Of X guidelines in the 5E Champions books, that are more in line with the current system. I would look into using thos specifically instead of anything from Fuzion (Does using that word get you a board infraction?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpcore Breach Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I have the big monster book on order along with the Champions book now. We are set to play this weekend. The Rule of X in the 5E books takes into account Speed?? Very nice. Thats the only thing I had to kinda make up myself since the "other system" didn't make any allowances for Speed. Also, L.L., I have found some very nice write ups for established characters so thats all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGuardian Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Re: New Champions vs. The Big Blue Book Unlike 4th edition Champions 5th edition is a genre book not a rules book - it covers how to apply the 5th edition rules to superheroes (and is quite good at that) but all you need is 5th edition (preferably revised). The Until superpower database books, gadgets and gear, and even the grimoires have lots and lots of examples of how to build powers in 5th edition. For examples of brick tricks the ultimate brick is the book to get. 5th edition did introduce the "powers skill" which can be used for one shot powers based on your current powers.. if you want to use that "trick" repeatedly the actual power should be bought, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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