csl

[steph]

hello i make a character and i got a question .........i bought 4 csl (3pts)

to three maneuvers (block. disarm. strike) now is it possible if i abort for dodge to put all my 4 points in my dcv

hope i am clear

english not my first language

steph

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: csl

 

No.

 

You can only apply the Skill Levels to your OCV and DCV when using one of the three maneuvers you mentioned. Dodge was not one of those maneuvers, so the CSL would not apply when dodging.

 

In fact, the only CSL's that can apply when dodging are 5pt DCV levels, 8pt All Combat Levels or 10pt Overall Levels.

 

Now a question for the Hero Guru's;

 

If one buys CSL's for 3 "tight manuevers" (for 3pts per level) could one choose Dodge as one of the manuevers and thus get the ability to add said CSL's when dodging? (also I would assume one would have to specify Dodge or Martial Dodge or Flying Dodge)

[ghost-angel]

Re: csl

 

If one buys CSL's for 3 "tight manuevers" (for 3pts per level) could one choose Dodge as one of the manuevers and thus get the ability to add said CSL's when dodging? (also I would assume one would have to specify Dodge or Martial Dodge or Flying Dodge)

 

Yes. If you specify Dodge as one of the three maneuvers you may add the CSLs as you see fit.

 

Also, if you define the CSLs for a Martial Art (such as Aikido) that has a Martial Dodge or Flying Dodge in it, they may apply to that maneuver as you see fit (but not Dodge, since it is not part of the Martial Art Maneuvers).

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: csl

 

Yes. If you specify Dodge as one of the three maneuvers you may add the CSLs as you see fit.

 

Also, if you define the CSLs for a Martial Art (such as Aikido) that has a Martial Dodge or Flying Dodge in it, they may apply to that maneuver as you see fit (but not Dodge, since it is not part of the Martial Art Maneuvers).

 

 

Ah yes of course. I brain-farted on the Martial-Arts clause...

[BNakagawa]

Re: csl

 

Yes. If you specify Dodge as one of the three maneuvers you may add the CSLs as you see fit.

 

Also, if you define the CSLs for a Martial Art (such as Aikido) that has a Martial Dodge or Flying Dodge in it, they may apply to that maneuver as you see fit (but not Dodge, since it is not part of the Martial Art Maneuvers).

 

this brings up a point. Can any of the default combat maneuvers be considered to be part of a martial art? If so, can you apply extra DCs or levels to them?

 

I can see how a formal martial art based on this philosophy or that would not incorporate standard maneuvers like move-thrus or haymakers.

 

But what about informal martial arts like dirty infighting? If I buy extra DCs or levels with dirty infighting, shouldn't I be allowed to use them with standard maneuvers as well?

 

$0.02

[steph]

Re: csl

 

ok and if i bought my csl (3pts) for a small group of attack like all blade or ju-jitsu can i put my csl in my dcv ? so if i fight with a long sword and i abort a phase to dodge can i put my csl in my dcv.?........or if i make a ju-jitsu dodge can i put my csl in my dvc?

hope i am clear

english not my first language

steph

[Hyper-Man]

Re: csl

 

this brings up a point. Can any of the default combat maneuvers be considered to be part of a martial art? If so, can you apply extra DCs or levels to them?

 

I can see how a formal martial art based on this philosophy or that would not incorporate standard maneuvers like move-thrus or haymakers.

 

But what about informal martial arts like dirty infighting? If I buy extra DCs or levels with dirty infighting, shouldn't I be allowed to use them with standard maneuvers as well?

 

$0.02

 

What would then be the difference between csl's with dirty infighting and HTH levels (besides cost)? Or between the MA bonus DC's and HA's?

[Sean Waters]

Re: csl

 

I would rule, if I were running a game, that you can only apply MA levels to BOUGHT MA manouvres, and not ANY basic manouvre as those basic manouvres are clearly not part of the system that you have trained in (i.e. paid for).

 

While we are on the subject, I do note the comment made about DCV levels having to be bought with 5/8/10 point levels. I think you can apply relevant 3 point levels to dodge BUT I've wondered whether to draw a distinction between melee and ranged attacks i.e. MDodge and 3x3 point levels would add (4+3) to melee DCV but only 4 to ranged DCV. If they were 5 point levels you would get to add (4+3) to both ranged and melee DCV.

[Rapier]

Re: csl

 

A 3 pt skill level can only apply to DCV with the same type of combat (ranged or HtH) as it was purchased.

 

So if you have 2 3pt CSLs with Akido (which has a Dodge Maneuver), you could only apply those 2 CSLs to HtH DCV, because Akido is a HtH style.

 

If the character had Gun-Fu with a Dodge maneuver, the 3pt CSLs would could only apply to Ranged DCV.

 

It's up to the GM to police what is considered a "tight maneuver." I frequently see Move By, Move Thru and Dodge.

 

A full on DCV level (good for Ranged and HtH) costs at least 5 pts.

[Vondy]

Re: csl

 

I would rule, if I were running a game, that you can only apply MA levels to BOUGHT MA manouvres, and not ANY basic manouvre as those basic manouvres are clearly not part of the system that you have trained in (i.e. paid for).

 

 

You would be unable, then, to use several published characters in your games. Several of them have 2 or 3 point levels with basic maneuvers (and it can only be the basic maneuvers for these characters as they have no martial maneuvers in their write-ups).

[Vondy]

Re: csl

 

ok and if i bought my csl (3pts) for a small group of attack like all blade or ju-jitsu can i put my csl in my dcv ? so if i fight with a long sword and i abort a phase to dodge can i put my csl in my dcv.?........or if i make a ju-jitsu dodge can i put my csl in my dvc?

hope i am clear

english not my first language

steph

 

If the style contains a dodge maneuver I would allow you to use it for DCV for the dodge maneuver only. For the other maneuvers you could, of course, apply it to OCV.

[Vondy]

Re: csl

 

this brings up a point. Can any of the default combat maneuvers be considered to be part of a martial art? If so, can you apply extra DCs or levels to them?

 

I would argue, for the purpose of applying skill levels, no. I have always assumed you could either purchase 3 point levels for the all martial maneuvers you have purchased for an art, or a maximum of 3 pre-determined basic maneuvers. One exception might be a character who purchased 2 martial maneuvers and wanted to include a basic maneuver "as a part of their art" - but that would be strictly up to the GM from my point of view, and I would be inclined to disallow it carte blanche.

[Sean Waters]

Re: csl

 

You would be unable' date=' then, to use several published characters in your games. Several of them have 2 or 3 point levels with basic maneuvers (and it can only be the basic maneuvers for these characters as they have no martial maneuvers in their write-ups).[/quote']

 

I'd have no problem with a character buying skill levels for basic manouvrees, but say he had a boxing MA, he couldn't use his 'basic manouvre' levels with his martial strike. Similarly if he has levels with boxing he couldn't use them with a basic grab: you can use limited 3 point levels in only limited ways i.e. for the a limited froup of manouvres, defined at purchase.

[Vondy]

Re: csl

 

I'd have no problem with a character buying skill levels for basic manouvrees' date=' but say he had a boxing MA, he couldn't use his 'basic manouvre' levels with his martial strike. Similarly if he has levels with boxing he couldn't use them with a basic grab: you can use limited 3 point levels in only limited ways i.e. for the a limited froup of manouvres, defined at purchase.[/quote']

 

I Concur.

[ghost-angel]

Re: csl

 

If the style contains a dodge maneuver I would allow you to use it for DCV for the dodge maneuver only. For the other maneuvers you could' date=' of course, apply it to OCV.[/quote']

 

While I'm not telling you you're playing wrong - that is against the rules as written. CSLs for a Martial Art (whether includes Martial Dodge or not) may be applied to OCV or DCV when using that Martial Art in a phase.

 

CSLs are an excellent way to show training to offset OCV and/or DCV penalties that some maneuvers give - such as the -1 DCV of the Legsweep Maneuver.

 

Per the rules of the 3pt CSL (5ER p54) they may apply to OCV, DCV or Damage Classes for the group they are purchased for. There is an Optional Rule regarding the HtH and Ranged issue, that almost all groups utilize (also outline on 5ER p54). [the same information is found in FREd p35-36 with the main addition that 5ER also specifies Damage Levels for 3pt CSLs.]

 

They may not apply to non-Martial Maneuvers, or anything outside the GM Approved Martial Art.