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Hackable cyber-brains?


arcady

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Hackable cyberbrain question:

 

Imagine a situation as in Ghost in the Shell (similar, but not identical);

- Most people with cyber-assited brains can be 'hacked'.

- This includes any cyber-assistance that can control motor functions.

- They cannot hack into the 'organic' side of the brain save where

- the cyber portion is able to control the organic portion.

- a sufficiently skilled hacker can do this, but such skill is rare.

 

- - It might require a rig of some kind to pull it off, and perhaps a password guess or codebreaking device...

 

- Difficulty is based on a combination of the type of cyber-brain and the mental fortitude of the victim.

 

How to build this game engine wise?

 

- Disad for all peope with cyber-brain assistance?

- special skill for hacker? Power they must buy?

 

 

Also:

 

Any thoughts otherwise on 'cyber-brains'?

 

I am thinking the general 'cyber-brain' will involve:

 

eidetic memory with a limitation of 'limited storage'.

and a 'sense' package to allow people to 'sense' the 'net'.

 

- which in this setting is dual layered, a web like the modern day real world, plus 'iconification' layering over reality, so that if you look at a person the 'net' will give you data on them, and two people could look at a wall and see different signs painted on it, while a third who is offline would see only the blank wall with a little 'beacon' for ID'ing the data point present there.

 

A limited cyberbrain at a minimum would be required to control any cybernetic implants, which are rare in the setting, but cayber-brains for data are near universal.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

That's my initial impression, but it seems problematic in a couple of areas:

 

If all it takes is being skilled or even just the other party lacking a firewall / password... needing to buy a mental power is no longer fitting.

 

If you do it with a rig, but the actual 'process' is essentially the same as hacking into a building security system - its more physical than mental. Mental defenses would come into play at times, but not at others... This concern is less severe than the first one, as most cyber-brains will be wired up to a live brain and thus mental powers could be justified on the basis of that live brain resisting.

 

Finally, mental powers implies an ability to continue resisting. But what if the cyber-brain, after bing hacked, simply has it's I/O channels to the organic side shut off. If you shut off the access on the organic side, mental resistance makes sense, but if you shut it off on the computer side, it seems overcoming it would be a Programming skill issue...

 

 

The above said...

 

Ideas on ways to structure mental powers to address these concerns? Especially the first one.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

Interesting thoughts: wouldn't be too bothered about buying it as a power: you could buy a program as a power, and it is just a matter of cost rather than an innate ability - Subversion Hacker 1.06 :)

 

Mind you I've alsways favoured building the internet, and anything connected to it, using EDM. Then if your brain is plugged in any equipment you have is vulnerable, potentially: it would probably take the form of a focus, which could be destroyed or transformed.

 

To simply accomplish what you are after though, build the cyberbrain with a limitation or disadvantage: can be hacked on a roll while connected to The Web.

 

Then you don't need to worry about it: the disadvantage is in-built :D

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I'd consider the following:

 

The Cyberbrain should have eidetic memory, limited to appropriate data, absolute time sense, and whatever other functions are deemed appropriate. They should have the restrainable (by menas other than grabs or entangles).

 

It should also have telepathy w/machines. Legit users should only need telepathy since they only need to transmit their desired command, not compel the computer into following them.

 

Hacking programs should include mental illusions versus machines (spoofing) and mind control vs machines (no verbal component). Trojans & Viruses can be O END, sticky, uncontrolled, possibly culumative uses of mind control, possibly with one set of commands only (spend all availalbe END on duplication).

 

Ego defense is your firewall and other anti-intrusion measures. Sense powers might represent advanced AV (some of the mind control units might have invisible to computer senses).

 

Mind link might be a back door.

 

You can add a Requires a skill roll vs skill roll with the skill being hacking or computer programming/systems operation as needed.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I'm not favoring EDM as the 'net' I'm putting up is not an elsewhere - it is an everpresent thing. You're online constantly as you walk around and get data back from things you encounter - and you can go to 'websites', 'chatrooms', and the like fairly much as you do today.

 

There's no 'cyberspace'.

 

Normal use of the 'net' is simply day to day use of various knowledge skills, computer use, etc. hacking the net would simply be computer programming checks to overcome passwords. No 'cyberspace' ICE, digital monsters, etc...

 

It just gets complex when the 'net' meets the brain...

 

Conceptually, the Cyberbrain is a hard-drive in your head, connected to a wireless card, and a basic computer (like a PDA). If you have any cybernetics, it is also a processor for driving these and interfacing them with your organic brain.

 

A hacker could get into it if they got past your firewall and password. If you have cyberlimbs, they could 'drive' them as the processor for that would be connected, if you have cybersenses or a SIN-recording implant, they could 'sense / feel' through you, or override your inputs and make you sense / feel something other than what is real. And of course, if you had cybereyes, they could even force you to look in certain directions or over-ride the input and make you see things.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

Hackable cyberbrain question:

Imagine a situation as in Ghost in the Shell (similar, but not identical);

...

IMHO, if the cyberbrain is hacked, the hacker can only control the equipment connected to the cyberbrain. For safety (and complexity) reasons, I would think that there would be a limited amount of connections between the cyberbrain and the flesh. It would be an engineering marvel to connect it to the just brain, much less anywhere else in the body.

 

- If the victim has cybereyes (or a vision enhancement system of some kind) then the hacker can alter what the victim sees.

- If the victim has any cyber limbs, they can be controlled, but any natural limbs that are not receiving assistance are safe.

- if the victim has a full prosthetic body (as some in GItS do) then the only thing that they hacker cannot affect is the organic brain itself.

 

Hackable cyberbrain question:

- - It might require a rig of some kind to pull it off, and perhaps a password guess or codebreaking device...

 

- Difficulty is based on a combination of the type of cyber-brain and the mental fortitude of the victim.

 

How to build this game engine wise?

 

- Disad for all peope with cyber-brain assistance?

- special skill for hacker? Power they must buy?

I think what cyberbrain hacking really requires is an in-depth knowledge of how a cyberbrain works, and what its weaknesses are (i.e. a skill). A cyberbrain is itself a computer rig, but there may be certain kinds of software or hardware (i.e. skill levels) to help either offense or defense. There should be some basic level of security built-in to the cyberbrain (i.e. it should have a defensive skill or bonus), but it might vary by model.

 

The actual hack attempt seems to me to be an opposed skill test. Any software or hardware used to help is represented by skill levels (perhaps with their own limitations).

 

You could make it more complicated, creating a kind of "mental combat" to use for hacking (I understand there was something like this in the old The Ultimate Mentalist, but I do not have it), but that seems to me only to make it take longer.

 

Any thoughts otherwise on 'cyber-brains'?

...

A limited cyberbrain at a minimum would be required to control any cybernetic implants, which are rare in the setting, but cayber-brains for data are near universal.

My first thought is that the cyberbrain itself is a multipower, and any built-in functions (absolute time sense, wireless communications, visual data overlays, etc.) and/or software for it are slots in the MP. Any other enhancements would be bought as separate powers, with their own limitations.

 

I highly recommend Michael Surbrook's Kazei 5 sourcebook (which is available in PDF form in the online store at a great price). It covers several options for cyberspace, in several forms seen in anime.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I might eventually download that.

 

First, I want to see how far I can get converting my Ex Machina setting into Hero without relying on other's tools that might alter my setting.

 

After that, I will likely download his book so as to ensure my rule choices look 'familiar' to people.

 

While I used Ghost in the Shell as a reference above, my flavor is very non anime.

 

My PDF book is here:

http://home.comcast.net/~brianfwong/SciFi/

 

I'm troubled because I like the skills idea, but worry that it might be too easy, thus too abusable in play.

 

That said, I am leaning on a skills idea, and a limitation applied to cybernetics / cyberbrains that they can be hacked - perhaps five lims for varying 'preset' difficulties.

 

Wide open... the max lim - you have no security and if I can make a basic check to use a computer, I can use your cyberbrain and everything it controls. Nobody has this, but I'd stat it out as a 'baseline'. This would be the -2 lim version. If your dog has wireless he could take you for a walk with this...

 

Unsecure - you've got all the security of the WinXP of the future.

Normal - future-Unix level security

Secure - norm for people concerned about privacy.

'Mil/CorpSpec secure' - you've got a license to be this hack-proof.

 

 

I will then put the 'wireless' into a separate disad, or lim on the brain. It is both a power, and opens up hacking you to people not wired to you...

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I didn't read everything closely but I'd do it with Mind Control. If a rig is required, then it's Mind Control with OAF.

 

Limiting what can be hacked to what is connected to the cyberbrain is, depending on GM whim, limited Mind Control, an SFX of the game world and GM fiat, or just a lim on the equipment ("can be hacked").

 

Hacking the brain (cyberbrain or otherwise) seems best simulated with Mind Control. If a small part of the brain is hacked, then may be some other Power would be better to simulate the in-game skill. For example, if only the eyes are hacked, then Mental Illusions is probably better.

 

 

I'm trying to make this as simple as possible, just for convenience of play and the players making builds.

 

You can throw in a lot of complication and special advantages and lims, but it's often easier just to say "SFX" and decree that's the way it works for this game world. Only toss in lims if you really need to balance the points around.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I think the reason mental powers really un-nerve me is that I want a person to be able to do this by training and by luck, but not easily so - by skill and not power. But perhaps also to be able to get assistance from rigs that add processing power for 'remote command' of 'cyberdolls' being adapted or also built to command of cyber-brains.

 

 

Mind Control makes it a permanent and big point investment, unless I start tacking VPPs onto all skills.

 

Perhaps I could place the power into that rig, and make it skill roll activation based...

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

First, it sounds like what you really need to do is set down some Ground Rules for the Game itself. In some cases these would be deviations from standard Hero Rules.

 

Firewall/Password: Mental Defense, no EGO Bonus.

 

Hacking into a brain: Telepathy; Requires Skill Roll (appropriate Skill, hacking, etc). Make is automatically cumulative: the longer you hack, the more likely you'll eventually get in. Of course, you'll be noticed in your attempts.

 

Controlling the brain: Mind Control; Requires Skill Roll. At this point Mental Defense should no longer apply (thus reducing the number of dice you really need to buy). In fact, you could make it automatically get +10 to the effect (normals having a 8-10 EGO automatically succumb to said hacking, others not so much) or reduce the needed Effect Level by 10.

 

Role Play elements; Everyone in the world with a Cyberbrain (i.e. everyone) gets a 0 points Physical Limitation: Gives Up Brain Control When Hacked. You could completely circumvent the Mind Control here and go on pure role playing to control a brain.

 

Everyone without a cyberbrain has a 0 point Physical Limitation: Not Connected To Global Net.

 

Each are 0 points because the first gives you access to everything, but your brain can be hacked. The second gives you access to nothing, but your brain is completely secure.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

As Shaft pointed out, Mental Powers such as Mind Control, Mental Illusions and Telepathy should be the programs that Cyber-hackers use to invade a persons Cyberbrain. They would all be based on "Requires a Skill Roll" limitation, the skill roll being Computer Programming of course. A firewall is simulated via Mental Defense and/or Mental Invisibility or Mental Images etc.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

Well when I run it in Mutants and Masterminds, 'Google' is just the means by which the knowledge skill is used.

 

Relevancy here...

 

I think its why I have trouble seeing mental powers with some of this. Communications is just the language skills. HD-space is just eidetic memory. Going on the net is just making a knowledge check.

 

 

Making someone see something however, gets different. I could see mental illusions there.

 

Reading their organic mind might be mind scan, but reading the cyber-brain is an open door once you have the password, and a shut door without it. Mind scan perhaps, but with some unusual exceptions.

 

Likewise Mind Control to 'take over the computer in the cyber-brain.'

 

I will probably put these powers into some 'hacking devices' that are acquired through cash or 'falling off the back of a shuttle craft'... and put the points burden in the skills.

 

Although the play out still feels wrong. A skill roll merely 'turns on the power', and it is the power that determines degree of success... So that puts my thinking back to square one. :)

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I'd imagine a cyberbrain is not built as a focus - it is more or less a permanent part of the character. That being the case you might just want to write up a physical disadvantage - HACKABLE - that characters with cyberbrains can take, or you can just do it with limitations ont he cyberbrain (but I orefer the former as more elegant as 'hackable' is not really something that limits the effectiveness of the CB, or restricts its use.

 

Written up thaat way you can have whatever you like, so long as everyone knows what they are getting into: you could even build different disadvantage levels depending on the sophistication of the system, or make it opposed rolls so that when you try to hack someone's brain they become aware of it and can use their own hacking skill as a countermeasure.

 

Whilst my first inclination is to mental powers I do not think they work very well to simulate this sort of thing - presumably, once hacked, a cyberbrain is 'open' unless it is shut down, wiped, restored from a backup and run again with a firewall, and mind control and telepathy tend to be over too quickly (although you could probably download a whole brainsworth of data using telepathy and the 'rapid sense' enhancement is a phase or two)

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

Add my vote for mental powers, with appropriate skill rolls and limitations. I'm guessing they only "feel wrong" because you are thinking of them as psi-powers, whereas to me "Mind control (machine class of minds)" is simply a way of taking over a machine - and also means you can't hack a machine without a mind, like an electric stapler.

 

This is by far the simplest way to do handle the questions that will inevitably come up. The fact that you want "skills" and these are "powers" is to me irrelevant. Skills, powers, talents - they're all just points. I see no contradiction in using both.

 

The problem with using skills is they are essentially all or nothing (and relatively cheap, to boot). So unless you start setting up skill tables defining different levels of success for different actions, hacking a brain gives you all or nothing control. It's as easy to hack someone's visual feeds as it is to take control of their cyberarm and make them shoot themselves in the brain.

 

Mental powers, with graduated levels of effect, the ability to use advantages like IPE and time delay and well-defined boundaries seems like a far easier way to go. You can also use mindscan for locating the precise mind you want on the net, plus things like clairsentience for hacking security cameras, mental shapeshift, so you can look like someone else to a recipient, etc.

 

If it's cost you are worried about, let players use multipowers, where different hacking abilities can be added for only the cost of a slot - but a good hacker willl need to invest some points to get up to speed and only the best will be able to completely take someone over.

 

If even that is too expensive let people buy their rigs or cyberbrains as followers (think the various AIs from Mind-Machine Interface) and give THEM the powers - in that case, all the user needs to do is buy the followers, mindlink and an appropriate computing skill to control them.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

Well, I'd like to add my vote to Sean's suggestion of a physical disad for anyone who has a cyberbrain.

 

The mental powers route would be suitable for designing someone who has the skills to hack into computers and cyberbrains etc but if this is an inherent part of cyberbrains then it is the flaw that has to be built and anyone with the relevant technical skills can do it rather than requiring someone with all of the relevant skills to also purchase mental powers (telepathy for communication, mind control for making them do things and mental illusions for altering perceptions).

 

It is the mental powers route that tend to give newcomers the heebie jeebies and enable them to point out percieved flaws in the game - most often because they are not being allowed to do things that common sense would say that they can.

 

Thus if you have a cyberbrain someone can hack into your brain and cause effects as if they had mental powers. My only problem is how good are they? I would tend to suggest that their skill roll should indicate level of effect, possibly an increase in level of effect for every +3 that they make the roll by? Not worked it out but on a level roll you get basic effect on 11-, and can improve that by rolling 8- or 5-. to get the fourth level of effect you really need to be significantly better than the brain you are hacking....

 

 

Doc

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I think the reason mental powers really un-nerve me is that I want a person to be able to do this by training and by luck' date=' but not easily so - by skill and not power. [/quote']

 

Although the play out still feels wrong. A skill roll merely 'turns on the power'' date=' and it is the power that determines degree of success... So that puts my thinking back to square one. :)[/quote']

 

Just want to add a couple of ideas here.

 

First, if you prefer skills, go for it. These are just ideas for ya. If you want to make the new skill Cyber-brain Hacking, and define it as doing X and Y, sure no problem. If you do do this I think I would go with the route giving Disadvantages to people with Cyber-brain components.

 

However, to me, there's really no difference between skills and power. If you want people to start slow and gain skill slowly, you have to put an artificial cap on their skill level. "No starting characters with a skill level above 13-." This is no different really than capping AP for Powers though. "No starting characters with APs over 20." Same difference. The SFX of the Power is skill and training. Limit AP growth in play too to people who spend the most time training and improving their skill.

 

The high cost of the Mind Control version reflects how powerful this really is. Remember, in Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, the one villain who really messed the team up was The Laughing Man. He had this Power/Skill to extreme levels. It is VERY powerful.

 

Lastly, if the point cost seems too high, them maybe it's because Cyber-brains aren't that common. Mind Control should have a custom lim "Cyber-brains Only", the value of which should be chosen by you to match the campaign appropriately. You might also limit how Mental Defense is bought for Cyber-brains, and how EGO works with Cyber-brains, to prevent characters who have spent a bucket load of points on the Mind Control version from being too easily nullified.

 

 

Short answer: just go with what ever you and your players like best. :) That's what the game is there for.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

Just want to add a couple of ideas here.

 

First, if you prefer skills, go for it. These are just ideas for ya.

By all means, and I am enjoying the discussion. It is not that I agree or disagree with anything, but for me this is somewhat uncharted territory. I know the 'feel' I want, I know how to do it in a few other systems, but I want to do it in Hero because well, its Hero and I wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't see some advantage in that. :P

 

All the different ideas are helping me formulate notions in my head.

 

Short answer: just go with what ever you and your players like best. :) That's what the game is there for.
Well at this point the 'players' are theoretical. I have a setting I have used in Ex Machina that I am fond of and I want to retool it to Hero due to problems in Ex Machina as a whole and the publisher being out of business, and well, a feeling that in most areas of my needs for this genre, Hero is ideal.

 

The players will come after, when I manage to convince a few people from the DnD / MnM group to give this a try someday... :P

 

 

Feel wise, I want this brains hackable by a trained operative with the right gear, or an expert with a stable connection.

 

The 'cyber-brain' itself is almost ubiquitous - nearly everyone has one, though most people have very limited ones that allow them to interface with the wireless 'net' that is all around them, and enables them to experience SIN (Sensory Interface Network) recording.

 

Here's a slightly out of date description of the net, cut from various pieces of my setting, which as I realize reading it now almost a year and a half after writing it, pre-supposes a lot of Ex Machina terminology as understood...:

 

Wave - the net. Or more precisely, that part of the net that is omnipresent and visible to any wireless user as they move through society - giving and taking data ceaselessly.

 

 

Communications in the Mosquito relies upon the net. Nearly every citizen has glasses or even an optic implant that can allow instant net access. It is not an iconic net however, but is rather more akin to an advanced version of our modern net, one that can follow what the user watches in the real world and feed information on it, as well as have it's own list of interconnected machines that do not map to real space anymore than today's web does. So there is no 'Gibsonian Cyberspace'.

 

Com technology is ubiquitous. Everything and everyone is connected to the communications networks, and being truly offline can actually be dangerous in the sense that machinery may become blind to your and trample right into, through, or over you without registering your existence. The offline, in a sense, do not exist.

 

...

Neural Jacks are nearly universal, and mandatory for most careers. Even blue collar work such as operating heavy machinery requires them for the obvious reason of jacking into the bot that does the lifting. They are not typically used for accessing the internet though. Their primary function is to give people access to the wetware needed for complex tasks, to run machinery, and as a feed for any Neural Buffers used to store data for immediate brain access. SIN decks also connect through Neural Jacks, and as this is one of the primary means of media entertainment in the world of Mosquito, anyone who wants to stay current has a plug for this if no other reason.

 

While Neural Buffers and SIN technology exist, they are merely data and impressions, and the mind itself cannot be uploaded in full anymore than one could mix water into oil. The faithful claim the soul is missing, the scientific note the different nature of the data; both agree however, that it is just not possible to copy whatever it is that makes a person alive. The limit of Neural Buffer technology is the ability to store one Persona Program (four slots). That gives a record of knowledge mixed with emotional triggers, but not the inner essence. They have been known however, to cause delusions of being someone else in users who overindulge.

 

...

 

Brain-chipped - having involuntary persona chips installed. Usually by the state to correct for 'deviant' behavior. Also seen in illegal exploitation operations.

 

Fuzploitation - media that promotes negative stereotypes of altered humans, particularly human-anthros, as if they were 'cool', 'hip', and to be aspired to. This media is targeted to the depicted communities and the youth market and is believed by activists to be an oppressive tactic of 'the powers that be'. Terms coined in reference to 'Kewl Catz Studios' - a SIN cast production agency frequency targeted by the police for suspicion of using underage and / or brain-chipped actors. (*)

 

SIN-noise - stray emotions in a SIN recording that are not part of the desired effect. Filtering out SIN noise is a major task of post-production and SIN recording can be rated by SIN-Noise in much the same way one rates the quality of audio recordings and their ability to sound 'real'. In street speak, any low quality SIN-recording is said to have 'high SIN-noise' even if the reason is for something else. Homemade SIN-recordings are notoriously bad in terms of SIN-noise. Certain collectors prefer high SIN-noise recordings as they are actually truer to the real event that was recorded - if Mei-Lin Chaya was feeling hungry for Indian food during the concert, a 'true-recording' would reflect that, but what most fans buy would have that feeling screened out in post-production. (*) Because of the nature of SIN-production and the ability to record feelings as well as perceptions most actors are persona-chipped and the media is often filtered through the recordings of several actors in post-production in order to minimize 'stray emotions'.

 

The above is out of date in that it places my 'Com link' in an optical implant, and the note about neural jacks not being used to access the net might not be consistent... but the theme of it seems intact.

 

I put the last three bits in to give a little flavor of what can be done with the mind.

 

 

Given my first paragraph of this post, it seems a hybrid is what I want

 

A trained op can get a 'rig' that has the mental powers and use her skills to use those powers. A genius like laughing man has the mental powers on his own, bought as skill-talents if I remember my Hero system terminology right - mental powers that a re specifically tailored to 'hacking'.

 

The brains themselves then have a lim or disad of being able to be hacked, rather than having focus. And the degre of this lim or disad sets how 'hackable' that given brain is.

 

This also would not get in the way of how I perceive most 'netrunning' - which is just pure skill use of running around on that 'everpresent wave'.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

You could go completely Skill Based.

 

Create a series of Cyber Skills that you see appropriate.

 

Phreaking

Hacking

Programming

KS: Database Systems

Cyber Control

Remote System Control

 

or what have you. Forget powers completely. Success rate of the Skill Rolls and good RPing can determine end results.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

I think the reason mental powers really un-nerve me is that I want a person to be able to do this by training and by luck, but not easily so - by skill and not power. But perhaps also to be able to get assistance from rigs that add processing power for 'remote command' of 'cyberdolls' being adapted or also built to command of cyber-brains.

 

 

Mind Control makes it a permanent and big point investment, unless I start tacking VPPs onto all skills.

 

Perhaps I could place the power into that rig, and make it skill roll activation based...

 

That's a good point- and in a Heroic game it consumes a lot of points.

 

You could make the Cyberbrain equipment that doesn't have to be paid for. The "powers" define the quality of the equipment with better hardware or software allowing you to do more (imagine decrypting code with an old 386 that has 2 MB of memory vs decrypting with a Quadruple Xeon array that has Gigs of RAM; the 386 has 2d6 "telepathy" while the Xeon has 12d6; similarly, an old ISDN router with nothing but an access list has no EGO defense while the latest Firewall with built in content inspection, anti-spoofing, -virus, & -trojan filters that are updated daily might have "Mental defense" 20). This also allows you to simulate Case's hacking attempt into the Neuromancer system where he is using a slick Chinese ICEbreaker program (12d6 telepathy w/invisible effects?) to sleaze his way in. Case is an awesome hacker, but the right equipment makes all the difference.

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Re: Hackable cyber-brains?

 

 

I've been glancing at this. It is a -very- different form of cyberpunk than I am working with. It looks more classic-genre, 80s style - mixed with super powers. My setting is 'postCyberpunk' - a variation that began in the 90s with a rejection of such themes as 'technology will alienate' and 'megacorps will take over'. And I of course, have no presence of any form of powers in 'Mosquito', in fact I've done my best to be as 'hard science' as possible. :)

 

That said, you reminded me that I need to open up my copy of Dark Champions again to look at things like resource points.

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