Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

[bcholmes]

The Horror Hero rulebook was bumped from the schedule because the author was no longer available. Nonetheless, this was a book I (and, it seems, others) were really looking forward to.

 

I've been thinking about starting my players in a Horror Hero campaign, and have been brushing up on Horror Hero 4th edition as well as GURPS Horror. And while doing so, my imagination has been fired about what might have been.

 

What would you have really liked to have seen if Horror Hero had come out in 2006?

[Jumper]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I corresponded with the original author when Horror Hero was released. He was kind enough to discuss the pros and cons of the original Horror Hero w/me. A couple of the things I wanted to see from that edition that never came about were:

 

1) Spirit Rules loosened up a bit- they were very restrictive, and contained an internal physics to them that didn't really give a GM options of creating the Spirit interactions to their own liking. I also felt that the Spirit Rules in general were mostly redundant, and were capable of being done with the existing rules. Examples of that, rather than imposing a whole NEW set of rules, seemed more appropriate. (I think at the time I was ranting about how 4th Edition had stated there would be no new rules, simply clarifications and ideas for using existing rules, and then here came Horror Hero with new rules. Hm... yeah, I guess I'm over it, now. No more ranting....)

 

2) There was an entire 1950s Creepy Space Alien section that was cut due to space restrictions at the time of publishing. THAT would have been 'way cool.

 

3) Although viable examples of various spooky critters were in the back of the book, I would have rather seen it designed more like an Ultimate book, and have ideas and guidelines for creating a consistent mythology in your campaign. You know, how DO high tech and the supernatural interact in your world?, etc.

 

My two bits.

 

-Jumper

[Curufea]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

Suggested modifications to the core Hero rules to suit the horror theme. Currently all the genre books do not modify the core rules - they still favour a heroic style of play with larger than life characters. This would need to be toned down to actual realistic levels. Even street level characters are heroically gifted currently, and that doesn't suit a horror game.

 

There needs to be ways of putting players in a "vulnerable" mindset. Possibly some genre changes concerning defenses and some limitations similar to those in Fantasy Hero (such as the EGO roll to push STR).

 

Also suggestions on how to a) roleplay horror, terror, fear and insanity and also how to simulate horror, terror, fear and insanity using rules.

[Curufea]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

My suggestions on defences-

 

PD cannot be raised separately, only as a figured characteristic (by raising the stats)

ED cannot be raised above 2

 

For sanity, a figured stat similar to PD than can be raised - but has a very low characteristic maxima.

[bcholmes]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I must confess that I'm of mixed minds regarding Sanity. The 1/3 page blurb in FREd suggests that a new Figured Characteristic, SAN, could be added (EGO + PRE/2 + CON/2).

 

Does every scary encounter challenge SAN? Or do some unnameable entities have an Always On, AOE, Transform (sane person to insane person), Based on SAN power?

[bcaplan]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I was hoping to be wowed by an author who had read every horror book and watched every horror movie and t.v. show. Like Pulp Hero, but for horror.

 

From what I've heard, Allen Thomas fit the bill. What's it going to take to get him back on the project?

[Curufea]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I must confess that I'm of mixed minds regarding Sanity. The 1/3 page blurb in FREd suggests that a new Figured Characteristic, SAN, could be added (EGO + PRE/2 + CON/2).

 

Does every scary encounter challenge SAN? Or do some unnameable entities have an Always On, AOE, Transform (sane person to insane person), Based on SAN power?

 

The various possibilities and solutions should be covered as well as the lack of. Not every horror subgenre requires anything to do with sanity.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I would have hoped that Godzilla and other Japanese giant monsters would qualify for a section.

[yamamura]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I would have hoped that Godzilla and other Japanese giant monsters would qualify for a section.

 

While a couple of those could be consider horror, too often they come across with analytical feeling that doesn't quite fit the horror genre. On the other hand a whole book dedicated to giant monsters would be so cool.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

While a couple of those could be consider horror' date=' too often they come across with analytical feeling that doesn't quite fit the horror genre. On the other hand a whole book dedicated to giant monsters would be so cool.[/quote']Agreed.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I would've liked to seen a discussion on Fear and the Hero system. Also, I would've liked to see a few campaign boosters placed in, allowing for 4-6 styles of play right from the get go.

[bcholmes]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

Also' date=' I would've liked to see a few campaign boosters placed in, allowing for 4-6 styles of play right from the get go.[/quote']

 

Can you elaborate on that? Are you talking about a "campaign seed", like an "adventure seed"?

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

Campaign rules, optional rules, ideas, and sample characters on how to have credible inhuman slasher types (Michael Myers, Freddy Krueger, Jason Voorhees, etc...) in a superhuman world.

 

Oh, and how to run a credible campaign in a world with supernatural threats where the characters have almost no access to supernatural defense (The Ring, The Grudge)

 

TB

[Sketchpad]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

Well, to use an example from d20, the book might include a basic campaign draft for something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, giving packages for Slayers, Watchers and the flavor of vampire, as well as some background, brief location bits, maybe a few monsters and equipment and finally either some seeds or a small beginning adventure.

But then, I think most genre books should be made that way.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I had started a post and it got destroyed. So now i have to begin again and hope that I recall the bulk of what I said. I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS. Where was I?

 

Ah yes. So when you're talking about horror, as I've said on the board before, you're really talking about the core elements of humanity exposed for the world to see - while giant monsters fit into the mix, they only work as extensions of the human psyche - kaiju generally wouldn't fall into this category, although you could argue that on a certain level, King Kong might, given the right frame of reference.

 

When I think of horror I immediately remember one of Stephen King's essays which was in the front of an old Gary Larson "Far Side" book, wherein he discusses the idea of frission - the momentary slide into reflexive behavior where you're faced with fight or flight. Where you know that turning that next corner is probably the worst decision you'll ever make. When you hear the scuttling in the walls but can't identify the source... but you hear it. At night, awake in bed, staring at the dancing shadows of passing headlights along your ceiling you can still hear it. Horror is about not only facing the core elements that compose human fear, but also about creating, delivering, and closing on emotions we don't tap as often. Suspense, tension, fear, adrenalin, the rush of escape and a moment of heady victory against unspeakable, overwhelming odds are all part of horror.

 

If I were to write a Horror Hero book, it would probably look something like this:

 

- A chapter devoted to the history of horror, from the first seminal works of the Gothic period through the pulps, black & whites, hammer films & slasher flicks. This would lead into a genre-by-genre comparison, since horror can be used almost anywhere, from Fantasy to Star Hero.

 

- I'd like to do a chapter including quotes & interviews with seminal writers, including Stephen King, Dean Koontz and other luminaries of the genre. Focus the reader in on what horror is, and why it's so compelling.

 

- Segue to the section on creating & building tension, how to do it in game, how to help your players create a suspension of disbelief.

 

- Then start going into the meat of horror; rules specific to hero that will help people create horror characters, suggestions for designing characters, a section on 'hapless heroes' as well as 'monster hunters' and everything in between. Horror works best when a PC is outgunned and forced to rely on his wits, to fall back and regroup and find the Fundamental Flaw in the enemies armor.

 

- During this start setting up the world, a 'Gas Light Horror' setting not unlike Ravenloft, but with more detective work, more guns and way less leveling. Include timeline specific skills & abilities and create new powers for the heroes & heroines. Create a compelling campaign setting that people can get behind and sink their teeth into (pun intended).

 

- A discussion section on anti-heroes, a staple of the genre. This is HERO - nothing says you can't play a Vampire, but defining what that means for your campaign is something else entirely, when the campaign may not necessarily be built around that idea. For example; instead of the heroic Werewolf of White Wolf fame, what if one of the heroes was in fact, well & truly cursed? How does that affect gameplay? How long can that game last?

 

- Character Generation part II, sample heroes, including Doctor Frankenstein, Van Helsing, Jonathan, Dr. Jeckyll, and so on. This would take me the longest, because a) I suck at it, and pulling up that many heroes would take time.

 

- The Fiend Folio; from Jason to Freddie to Adam (Frankenstein's Monster), Dracula (in various incarnations), and almost anyone or anything else I could find. This would be the most fan-heavy request section, especially if I were to include...

 

- Horror by Continent. Chinese, Japanese, and African horror would require months of independent library research to make heads or tails of. What are the over-riding themes of those stories? What similarities do they share? How can you incorporate them into your campaign?

 

Those would be some of the things that I would do, were I to write the book. I can't really say 'what I'd like to see' because deep down, this is a project I've been working on for years. This is my genre - I love horror, I love scaring the f-ck out of people in game and putting in all the amazing twists & turns. Love it.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

If I were to write a Horror Hero book, I think I'd tackle it something like this:

 

- Introduction to Horror: Describe the inspirations and define what fear is through example and descriptive text.

- The Rules of Fear: Covering mechanics for fear, sanity and what it means to be afraid. Also in this chapter would be rules on setting the stage and scaring your players.

- The Opponents of the Unknown: Characters and what makes them. I would include generic packages, possible cultural packages, equipment and new talents & perks.

- Horror Campaigns: I would include 6 campaign boosters (see previous post) that could be started within a night. Of the 6 I would include, I think they'd be: Teenage Vampire Hunter, Fearless Monster Hunters, Ghostbreakers, Urban Myths, Hunting for Fun and Profit, & My Life as a Monster. Each would include campaign specific info (packages, equipment, talents, etc), as well as some campaign critters and adventure hooks.

- Lurking in the Shadows: All the creepies that could be thought of and fit in the book. Anything that didn't fit would go into a bestiary book after.

[Curufea]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I also think it could benefit from a horror short story or two. Something to help set a mood, or give an example of a style.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

White Wolf is famous for this - one, maybe two thousand words to set everything up. Good point.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I also think it could benefit from a horror short story or two. Something to help set a mood' date=' or give an example of a style.[/quote']

 

White Wolf is famous for this - one' date=' maybe two thousand words to set everything up. Good point.[/quote']

 

I wouldn't. A Recommended Reading list at the end would be more than sufficient.

 

I found the latest set of White Wolf books next to useless due to their use of "color text" -- especially since most of their interstitial fiction tends to have unreliable narrators. I waded through the books trying to figure out what was system information, what was setting information, and what was random cruft with nothing to do with anything. It was like sitting in a class with a professor who drones on and on and constantly digresses. I kept wanting to raise my hand and ask "Do I need to know this?"

 

Ask yourself, when was the last time you were at a game and somebody stopped and said "Wait a moment, I'm not sure of the mood here; Somebody pull out the rulebook!"

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

I wouldn't. A Recommended Reading list at the end would be more than sufficient.

 

I found the latest set of White Wolf books next to useless due to their use of "color text" -- especially since most of their interstitial fiction tends to have unreliable narrators. I waded through the books trying to figure out what was system information, what was setting information, and what was random cruft with nothing to do with anything. It was like sitting in a class with a professor who drones on and on and constantly digresses. I kept wanting to raise my hand and ask "Do I need to know this?"

 

Ask yourself, when was the last time you were at a game and somebody stopped and said "Wait a moment, I'm not sure of the mood here; Somebody pull out the rulebook!"

Yeah, I hated the random fiction that the interspersed in their books, particularly because their fictional major NPCs know less than nothing about the way the world around them really works, it lends nothing to the gaming aspect.

 

Yeah, sure, if you want to play a character that is woefully ignorant of the way the world moves that's fine, but most gamers don't seem to enjoy that kind of living with blinders on kind of world (I know I don't)

 

Especially when you consider how screwed up and superstition based most of the fictional character's understandings of the world are. I'd buy some of that crap during the Dark Ages setting (that's how everyone lived, in a world sofused with superstition) but in the modern setting that kind of lack of rational thought especially in the context of prevailing Western Society was just nonsensical. The Methuselahs may have been old, but they still had a human mind, they would be able to adapt to society as a it changed, they aren't that ossified.

 

TB

[Karmakaze]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

Yeah' date=' sure, if you want to play a character that is woefully ignorant of the way the world moves that's fine, but most gamers don't seem to enjoy that kind of living with blinders on kind of world (I know I don't)[/quote']

 

I can handle being a PC that starts out not knowing about the mystical aspects of the world - facing the unknown is a staple. Look at the Call of Cthulhu game - you're better off knowing! Although it's probably good if the PC picks up the at least basics pretty quick.

 

What made me crazy was not being able to tell what was accurate or not well enough to, say, make up a character background. Because even if your character doesn't know certain stuff, the game system requires some of it to be encoded into the character sheet.

[Chris Henry]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

As Horror Hero would have been a first of sorts, a Meta-Genre Book, I would have liked to see it designed as just that. One chapter dedicated to the metagenre as a whole, and then individual chapters detailing the layering of horror onto each of the major genres: fantasy, star, champions, dc, pulp, etc. Pulp and Victorian might get larger chapters, of course.

 

If the book would have done well, it could have led to similar meta-genre books for Comedy, Tragedy, Romance, etc.

[bcholmes]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

Here's the outline I've been noodling on:

 

1. Introduction

 

2. The Genre

- what makes the Horror Genre tick

- conventions of the genre

 

2a. Sub-genres

- Call of Cthulhu-esque (investigators attempt to prevent ancient evils from coming back)

- Occult (Nephilim and Unknown Armies are weird examples)

- Zombie (or Vampire) apocalypse (Zombies have taken over parts of the world. Can you characters even survive?)

- Monster hunters (Buffy, Nightstalker, X-Files, Supernatural)

- Splatterpunk (Texas Chainsaw Massacre, etc.)

- Demonic (Omen, Rosemary's baby)

- Secret World of Monsters (a la World of Darkness)

 

2b. Mixing Genres

- Pulp Hero (Lovecraftian)

- Star Hero (post-apocalyptic Zombie World, Predator/Alien, Space 1999: Devil's Domain)

- Champions (Blade, Night Force, Hellblazer)

- Dark Champions (X-Files, Ultraviolet)

- Fantasy Hero (Urban Fantasy)

 

3. Horror Characters

 

3a. Archetypes

- Spooky Alphabet Agent (Mulder/Scully)

- Cop on the Beat

- Scientist / Inventor

- Private Investigator

- Occult Investigator

- Monster looking for Redemption (Angel)

 

3b. Points and Threat

- sometimes lower point characters are more vulnerable; increases threat for players

 

3c. Sanity

- various options for treating SAN

 

3d. Powers and Abilities in the Horror Genre

 

4. Settings

 

4a. Threats

 

- Aliens (how Horror aliens are different than Star Hero aliens)

- Monsters

- Vast world-manipulating cabals

- Evil-worshipping mystical cults

- Ancient insanity-producing unnameable things

 

4b. Organizations

 

5. Game Mastering Horror Adventures

 

6. Sample Occult Items

 

7. Sample Characters

 

7a. Heroes

7b. Adversaries

7c. Monsters

[Pentoth]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

bcholmes put up exactly what I was thinking when I saw the topic title.

[Midas]

Re: Horror Hero: What would you have liked to have seen?

 

Here's the outline I've been noodling on:

 

3a. Archetypes

- Spooky Alphabet Agent (Mulder/Scully)

- Cop on the Beat

- Scientist / Inventor

- Private Investigator

- Occult Investigator

- Monster looking for Redemption (Angel)

 

 

I'd add three more closely related archetypes.

 

- The Lovecraftian Hero: An armchair intellectual, with no interest in adventuring, being dragooned into saving the world.

 

- The Koontzian Hero: A general failure at life, but has the strange collection of skills that make him perfect for defeating a Weird Menace.

 

- And the over arching Clueless Nobody: For no reason anyone can understand, this unremarkable character has been noticed by a Weird Menace, and is now in mortal danger.

 

Midas