mattingly Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm trying to come with a way to scramble communication. Not just jamming radio signals or anything, but actually confounding languages. Sort of the opposite of Universal Translator. The best I can come up with so far is Drain/Suppress/Dispel Languages, but that seems kind of Munhkiny. A simple 2d6 Dispel with the +2 to affect all at once, and a Selective AOE would completely mess up an entire team of opponents very cheaply. I thought about some variant on Flash or Darkness to Speech, with a Lim that the people affected can actually make noises, but not words. But I'd like it to affect the written word, too, so I'm back to the Language method above. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect You could treat speech as a pseudo sense, and do as you suggest, or use some sort of mental illusion (probably only at the EGO level, to make speech unintelligible) or there is that old fallback: transform. The problem will depend whether this is Snow Crash Babel Effect i.e. you can no longer understand even written language - or just the spoken stuff (a limited darkness or flash could do that even without considering speech a psuedo sense). Moreover can you even think intelligibly? I'm shading towards a limited INT drain here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Hmmm. It looks like a disad to me. You are giving someone illiteracy and verbal dysphasia. The value of those is possibly limited in context of the campaign but definitely adding those disads. The only rule correct way to do that is transform. Sorry but it had to be said. Some people have suggested using a variant of aid to impose disadvantages - getting partial results as the numbers add and then they would fade away as per the rules. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Darkness (sound, sight and possibly touch) only to prevent the perception of language -1 would probably do it - you can't even 'see' written language to understand it, or read braille. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect In roleplay terms, my friend once pulled that as a plot device. He managed the roleplay aspect by giving us a list of words that we could understand and convey either through speaking or drawing. We had to construct any sentence we wanted by using just the 20 or 25 words he had provided. It was frustrating but a lot of fun trying to describe dangers "Big hairy thing in dark thing. Big thing. Dark thing, no!" Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Device Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect How about: 38 Babel: Change Environment 2" radius, -8 to INT Rolls for Languages If that doesn't work for you, you could go with 27 Babel: Darkness to Sight, Hearing, Touch, Radio and Mental Groups 2" radius (40 Active Points); Only to Prevent Language Based Communication (-1/2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Change Environment 2" radius' date=' -8 to INT Rolls for Languages[/quote'] Ooh, that works great when combined with the "Language as Intellect Skill" chart on TUS216. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect How about: 38 Babel: Change Environment 2" radius, -8 to INT Rolls for Languages If that doesn't work for you, you could go with 27 Babel: Darkness to Sight, Hearing, Touch, Radio and Mental Groups 2" radius (40 Active Points); Only to Prevent Language Based Communication (-1/2) That's what I was thinking also when reading the original post, Change Environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect I like the change environment idea but get a little uncomfortable with such big penalties being imposed by the power. Nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't seem to me to be the way the power works - although it works well for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect 5ER page 352, "Voice as a Sense". A Voice is essentially a 20 pt. Sensory Power that you cannot percieve anything with, but can be effected by Darkness, Flash, ect. A 20 pt. Voice Drain/ Transfer or Darkess/ Flash may create the effect you are looking for without being too cheap in cost for the result. BTW, cool idea sundae with cherry rep on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect I'd thought of Flashing Voice, but this should also affect the printed word, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flames Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect This reminds me of when I was trying to figure out how to build the spell cast by The Gentlemen in the 4th Season Buffy episode "Hush." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect I know you already thought of it, but... From thread Psionic Aphasia: The Tower of Babel Okay, Granted this would only be effective against a team, but it would work nicely. It also has the added bonus of making that annoying self-important Richards, I mean megavillain finally shut up. Aphasia: Drain Language Skill 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), any Communication power one at a time (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Based On EGO Combat Value (Mental Defense applies; +1) (55 Active Points) Tower of Babel: Drain Language Skill 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), any Communication power one at a time (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (12" Radius; +1 1/2) (60 Active Points) You only need one succesful to-hit roll to completely wipe out any ability to communicate meaningfully. Is it munchkiny? Well, is it munchkiny for a character to buy languages for 4 points? ----------------------------------- Another idea would be images, sight and sound, with limited affect- only affects communication, and set effect- makes unintelligible. Issue there would be that a PER roll could overcome it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect I'd thought of Flashing Voice' date=' but this should also affect the printed word, too.[/quote'] I see your point. I think the same model (i.e. treat it like a Sense that can only Transmit) can be used for Writing also. Writing (Sight) can also be stopped via a Flash or Darkness just like Voice (Hearing). You could use a +1/2 Adjustment Advantage on the Power (using 20 pts. as the value to overcome) to allow it to effect 2 powers with related effects (language) at the same time. I think this fits the spirit of the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Sweet find, D-Squared. I never thought to scour the archives for this very solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect I'm trying to come with a way to scramble communication. Not just jamming radio signals or anything, but actually confounding languages. Sort of the opposite of Universal Translator. The best I can come up with so far is Drain/Suppress/Dispel Languages, but that seems kind of Munhkiny. A simple 2d6 Dispel with the +2 to affect all at once, and a Selective AOE would completely mess up an entire team of opponents very cheaply. I thought about some variant on Flash or Darkness to Speech, with a Lim that the people affected can actually make noises, but not words. But I'd like it to affect the written word, too, so I'm back to the Language method above. Any ideas? I'd suggest CE:-X Int rolls,requires a int roll to effectively communicate...a sort of verbal confustion effect....so "Look out he's behind you" on a failed Int roll comes out as "Daisys make poor underpants!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect I'd suggest CE:-X Int rolls' date='requires a int roll to effectively communicate...a sort of verbal confustion effect....so "Look out he's behind you" on a failed Int roll comes out as "Daisys make poor underpants!"[/quote']Only problem with that is, Language skill does not require an INT roll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daeudi_454 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Adjustment vs Language Skill: too powerful. (??? but it fades after a turn, allowing basic communication.) Flash vs hearing, only vs speech: lasts only segments! Darkness vs hearing, only vs speech: affects an area, limited mobility. Images, sound, only to obscure speech: overcome by PER roll Change Enviroment: affects an area, no real skill roll to lower- could make it hard to hear the speech though. Again, overcome by PER roll Only vs Speech: What would the value of this even be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraterMaker Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Only problem with that is' date=' Language skill does not require an INT roll...[/quote'] Movement doesn't require a dex roll, but you can hinder movement is a target fails a dex roll, according to Change Environment..I think. Someone correct me if I'm off track here... -CraterMaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect The best I can come up with so far is Drain/Suppress/Dispel Languages' date=' but that seems kind of Munhkiny. A simple 2d6 Dispel with the +2 to affect all at once, and a Selective AOE would completely mess up an entire team of opponents very cheaply.[/quote'] I think this could work, but it shouldn't be allowed to mess up body language/facial expression. A team that is used to working together would be no more hindered than they would if they were fighting among loud noises. I also like Sean's Darkness, Only vs. Language, method. CE would work the same way, I guess. The most "robust" method (that I can think of) would be Mental Illusions, with Area Effect (or maybe Autofire), "Makes written/verbal/etc. language seem like jibberish" as a set effect. This way, it can even effect body language and other forms of communication. Imagine not even being able to understand your teammate's facial expression or tone of voice. It would probably "feel" scarier that way, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheUnknown Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect I know you already thought of it, but... From thread Psionic Aphasia: The Tower of Babel Is it munchkiny? Well, is it munchkiny for a character to buy languages for 4 points? ----------------------------------- Another idea would be images, sight and sound, with limited affect- only affects communication, and set effect- makes unintelligible. Issue there would be that a PER roll could overcome it. you would need +2 affect all at same time not 1/4 affects 1 at a time or you would have to choose each individual type of communicattion you wish to drain per use of the power. A simple 2d6 major transform communication to babeling/jibberish area personal immunity comes out relatively cheaper than the drain that wouldnt need the +2 on it to do all communication at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Only problem with that is' date=' Language skill does not require an INT roll...[/quote'] There are rules in The Ultimate Skill for doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect There are rules in The Ultimate Skill for doing it. Besides, I would use the fact that CE can require a roll even where none was required before, just as a prior poster mentioned, so I think you can stay completely within core rules and justify it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect Only problem with that is' date=' Language skill does not require an INT roll...[/quote'] Neither does walking (ie using running) but a sheet of ice requires a dex roll or you fall...this mechanic is built into CE...roll dex or fall, roll per to see (fog for example) so why not roll int to communicate? (a confusion feild) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Re: The Babel Effect It's funny, I made a Falling Attack a long time ago, before CE existed, and it had pretty similar effects as this subset of CE (it could be in the air of course, wind being a common SFX, and on the ground, and so on, and it required a DEX roll, although there some additional elements of how you could boost damage). Early on, when Steve made some comment about wanting to be sure websites weren't unduly giving out HERO info from the books or otherwise a problem, I submitted my site for approval (IIRC, there was a pretty tight limit on the number of words on a site and mine was certainly a lot more), and he noticed that and mentioned that I might find changes in 5th could eliminate some of my house powers, and indeed CE did eliminate Falling Attack (I maintained it just as a legacy placeholder and in the description now indicate to buid it with CE). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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