How strong was the Golden Age Superman?

[Redmenace]

I'm trying to stat out Supes circa 1941. He was relatively mundane compared to his Silver age version but I'm really not clear as to what extent.

 

He is said to be able to withstand a howitzer shell exploding and is strong enough to Lift a car, beyond that I'm blank.

 

So if anyone could help answer the following;

 

1.) How strong? i'm guessing 60-65.

 

2.) He can leap tall buildings. Could he not fly outright originally? Could he by '41?

 

3.) How about the other super powers like X-ray vision, Heat vision, super breath and the rest of the senses?

 

4.) Can I assume Kryptonite worked pretty much the way it does today?

 

Any help appreciated

[McCoy]

Humm. "Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound."

 

I would put his STR somewhere between 60 - 100, maybe 75. Could live with 65 and a push.

 

In 1939 he could just superleap, but I believe he could fly by '41.

 

In 1939 the only powers shown were strength, durability, and speed (but I believe some life support, immunity to disease, was implied). Note also that this was not due to the Yellow Sun, Jor-L exibited the same powers while on Krypton. In 1942 Clark Kent flunked his Army induction physical when he accidently read the eye chart in the next room, so vision powers exibited in '42, could go either way in '41.

 

IIRC, kryptonite was unknown in '41. It originated on the Superman radio show, so finding the dates for that would give you a window.

 

[Added in edit] Yes, kryptonite appeared on the radio in June of 1943, in the comics in 1949.

[Doug McCrae]

From the radio show preamble, 1940 ->

Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound! Look! Up in the sky! It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s Superman! Yes, it’s a Superman! Strange visitor from another planet, who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. Superman! Who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel with his bare hands, and who – disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper – fights a never ending battle for truth, justice and the American way!

And here's a lengthy quote from a really excellent Superman website which has an extremely detailed analysis of the evolution of his powers.

Like Superman's other powers, his strength has been continually magnified over the years.

 

In June 1938, Superman, described as a man of titanic strength with the ability to raise tremendous weights, lifts an automobile over his head with one hand, shakes its hoodlum occupants out on the the ground, then smashes the car to bits against the base of a cliff.

 

In Spring 1940, when Metropolis is ravaged by a man-made earthquake, Superman supports tottering buildings while terrified occupants dash to safety.

 

In 1941, Superman swims through a raging flood using only one hand, while holding a mansion aloft with the other hand. To divert the floodwaters, Superman digs a huge, mile-long ditch with his bare hands in a matter of moments.

 

In 1942, Superman seizes a set of brass knuckles and crushes the cowardly instrument in his palm as easily as though the metal were putty; he smashes his way through the side of a mountain; and, while clinging to the side of a moving train, Superman performs an amazing stunt - he opens a Pullman window! By September of the same year, his strength has grown to the point where he can wrench apart a pair of twin mountain peaks with his bare hands.

 

In 1943, when Superman acts to avert the collapse of a massive undersea cavern, his mighty shoulders bear the weight of thousands of tons of rock and the terrific pressure of the ocean above it. (Action Comics #62, "There'll Always Be a Superman!") He also hits a baseball so hard that it circles the world.

[Catacomb]

Dude...60-65? He juggled planets. Let me say it again...HE JUGGLED PLANETS!!!

[Doug McCrae]

Here's a few more quotes from the same website. I hope your Superman has plenty of points!

In the early years of his super-heroic career, Superman was not endowed with the power of flight. Although he possessed superhuman speed, he moved from place to place by running or by executing gigantic leaps. Month by month, however, Superman's running speed increased, along with the length of his leaps and the complexity of the aerial maneuvers he was able to perform once he had left the ground. The transition from leaping to actual flying was extraordinarily gradual and was punctuated with a great deal of inconsistency. Not until May 1943 is Superman explicitly referred to as a "being who can fly like a bird" and not until later that same year can it be said, without qualification, that Superman actually possesses the power of flight.

 

In June 1938, a bullet ricochets off Superman's tough skin and a knife blade shatters when it strikes his body. Nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin. Subsequent texts describe Superman as possessing a skin impenetrable to even steel and as being impervious to bullets because of an unbelievably tough skin. A text dated January 1945 notes that "Unlike ordinary people, the Man of Steel can do without food if necessary," but a later text contradicts this, noting that Superman could indeed "starve to death."

 

In Superman's earliest adventures, however, he exhibited no special optical powers, and the vision abilities he employs today are the products of a gradual evolution spanning many years of texts. Tracing the evolution of these abilities is difficult, for the terminology used to describe them is often haphazard and confusing. "Telescopic X-ray vision," for example, used as a general term in many early texts to denote Superman's ability both to see through objects and to see objects from far away, later comes to refer to the use of both of these visions simultaneously.

 

"Super-vision," however, both with and without the hyphen, has been employed at various times in the chronicles as a synonym for telescopic vision; as a means of describing Superman's ability to perform some complex optical feat, such as tracing television broadcast signals to their source; and as a term denoting a combination of X-ray vision and telescopic vision, the meaning it has today.

 

Similarly, Superman used his X-ray vision to analyze the chemical composition of substances, to melt solid objects, and to see in pitch darkness long before the more specialized terms microscopic vision, heat vision, and radar vision ever appeared in the chronicles.

 

Some terms, such as "super-sensory sight," "super-sensory-vision," and "supernormal vision" are used in the texts without ever being defined precisely.

 

 

In his very earliest adventures, however, Superman exhibited no special aural powers, and the super-hearing he employs today is the product of a gradual evolution spanning many years of texts. The term "super-hearing" first appears in the chronicles in Fall 1939. Nevertheless, during the first two decades of Superman's career, the texts also employ such other descriptive terms as "super-acute hearing," "super-sensitive hearing," "hyper-keen hearing," and "super-keen hearing."

 

In January 1939, Superman is described as having "sensitive ears," which enable him to hear things ordinary human beings cannot.

 

In November 1940, Superman's super-sensitive ears enable him to pick up radio waves so that he can listen in on a radio news broadcast without a radio. In 1942, his super-sensitive hearing enables him to trace radio waves to their source.

 

 

A text dated August 1939 notes that Superman can hold his breath for hours underwater.

 

In January 1940, he blows out a flaming torch with a powerful puff of his breath.

 

A text dated March 1941 notes that Superman's lungs can withstand any air pressure, no matter how great, and a later text observes that Superman can swim thousands of fathoms deep, down to the ocean bed itself, without suffering any ill effects.

 

In June 1941 Superman extinguishes a raging fire with a terrific gust of breath and in 1947 he extinguishes a bonfire by inhaling the flames.

 

 

In 1941, Superman employs ordinary ventriloquism to distract the attention of criminals holding Lois Lane.

 

In Spring 1940 Clark Kent exhibits the ability to temporarily halt the beating of his heart. In several occasions in subsequent years, Superman employs this unique ability in order to enable him to feign death. Superman #21 alludes to Superman's having temporarily halted the beating of his heart and put himself into a state of suspended animation.

 

In Summer 1940, Superman is described as possessing a photographic memory.

 

In January 1941 Superman cures Lois Lane of her amnesia by means of hypnosis and a month later, as Clark Kent, he hypnotizes her into forgetting the super-feats he is about to perform so that he can rescue her from a burning cabin in his role as Clark Kent without betraying his dual identity.

 

Superman's super-coordination enables him to sign two autographs simultaneously, one with each hand, and a transfusion of his alien blood has the power to make a critically ill person well again within a matter of moments. (Superman #6, 1940)

 

One super-power that has long since been discarded by the chroniclers is Superman's ability, displayed on a number of occasions in the 1940s, to radically alter his facial characteristics and even his size through what was described as "superb muscular control" of his "plastic features."

[JmOz]

May I suggest

 

http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/adaptionscomic/superman.html

[McCoy]

One super-power that has long since been discarded by the chroniclers is Superman's ability, displayed on a number of occasions in the 1940s, to radically alter his facial characteristics and even his size through what was described as "superb muscular control" of his "plastic features."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Humm. Makes a lot more sense than Venerable Comic Book Cliche #1, "No one will recognize you if you put on a pair of glasses."

[Redmenace]

Thanks guys that makes the job easier. On a side note, wasn't there a reference during the History Channels "Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked" program where the alluded to a story where supes rounded up Hitler and Stalin and dropped em off at the League of Nations? I'm not planning to do that but it sounds like something interesting.

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Redmenace

Thanks guys that makes the job easier. On a side note, wasn't there a reference during the History Channels "Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked" program where the alluded to a story where supes rounded up Hitler and Stalin and dropped em off at the League of Nations? I'm not planning to do that but it sounds like something interesting.

 

"In 1943, Look Magazine ran a two-page sequence written by Jerry Siegel and drawn by Joe Shuster entitled "What If Superman Ended the War?" In that sequence, Superman had tired of the destruction of war and decided to bring it to an abrupt end. He flew to Berlin and captured Adolph Hitler, then went to Moscow to capture Joseph Stalin. Leaping high above the mountaintops, Superman flew the pair to Geneva Switzerland, to a court before the League of Nations where the two dictators were placed on trial for war crimes against their own people. Interestingly, this was published before Roosevelt and Churchill invited Stalin to be one of the allies, and Russia joined in the battle against Germany. Still, it showed the sentiment toward Russia during the 1940's, and that even then the world opinion of 1943 considered the Russian people to be oppressed."

 

 

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comics/articles/supes-war.html

[Klytus]

Originally posted by Catacomb

Dude...60-65? He juggled planets. Let me say it again...HE JUGGLED PLANETS!!!

 

Not until the Silver Age.

[Superskrull]

Originally posted by Klytus

Not until the Silver Age.

 

true, but there isn't a clear demarkation that shows the Gold turning to the Silver. All through the 40s & 50's Superman's powers swelled to ever greater proportions and due to the superboy stories, he was always shown as having this power level.

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Superskrull

true, but there isn't a clear demarkation that shows the Gold turning to the Silver. All through the 40s & 50's Superman's powers swelled to ever greater proportions and due to the superboy stories, he was always shown as having this power level.

 

But if you follow the Earth-1 / Earth-2 convention, the Earth-2 Superman was never Superboy, so it could be said that all the Superboy stories 1945 on were about the Earth-1, Silver Age Superman.

[Doug McCrae]

Superboy is a problem, isn't he? In an analog universe I would have Superboy not be the same person as the GA Superman, whose career started in 1938. First appearing in 1945, Superboy is probably the younger version of the much more potent SA Superman - their power levels and dates match better.

[ShinDangaioh]

The vision powers were NOT granted by the yellow sun originally. It was even mentioned that all Kryptonians had X-ray vision in the story of when Kal-L was sent to Earth

[Kevin Scrivner]

Good quotes from the website.

 

The 1939 Superman couldn't fly but could leap an eighth of a mile. But he frequently defied gravity by abruptly changing direction in mid-leap. If you watch some of the old Max Fliescher cartoons you'll get the idea. As previously noted, this gradually evolved into genuine flight.

 

He had enhanced senses, really good hearing, like pulp adventurers such as Doc Savage. But he couldn't see through walls or hear Lois scream from across town yet. In the 1940 radio serial he was able to easily follow both sides of a telephone conversation while seated in an office with one of the conversants. This ability drove Perry White and numerous public officials nuts.

 

While Superman was resistant to disease and could hold his breath an unusually long time he didn't yet have Life Support as such. In one early confrontation with Lex Luthor the mad scientist took him out with poison gas after robot fighter planes and trained attack wolves failed.

 

While not strong enough to juggle planets, his strength and speed did increase rapidly. Again, in the 1940 radio serial he went from snatching people out of runaway trolley cars to swiftly clearing rock slides off railroad tracks and ripping apart mountainsides to dam floodwaters.

 

Kryptonite didn't appear until 1945, when a Nazi war criminal stole pieces of a meteor that had crashed near Metropolis and injected the resultant radioactive solution into the veins of a young SS officer to create Superman's first super-powered foe, the Atom Man. By then, Superman was flying, had some of his super senses, had become a public hero instead of a shadowy mystery man. He could count on the cooperation of the police and the military instead of having to dodge them as he had in 1940. The story arc is available from Radio Spirits, Inc., as "Superman vs. Atom Man." If you can't get ahold of the radio shows, the 1950s TV show will give you a good idea of what Superman was like during this period. They pretty much translated the radio version wholesale.

 

The whole yellow sun thing is a product of the late 1950s or 1960s. The radio show, which introduced us to Superman's parents, described the Kryptonians as a race of supermen dwelling on a planet in Earth orbit on the opposite side of the sun. Their powers were the products of their advanced science and culture.

[Superskrull]

Originally posted by McCoy

But if you follow the Earth-1 / Earth-2 convention, the Earth-2 Superman was never Superboy, so it could be said that all the Superboy stories 1945 on were about the Earth-1, Silver Age Superman.

 

Yeah, mostly so, I'd think. Just try not to think about when they show Superboy in the 20s-30s. Then again, when the New Adventures of Superboy was coming out in the 80s, he was adventuring in the 60s and edging into the 70s. Made me cackle out loud when they did that Legion guest app in Superman:TAS. Happened in the late 70's-early 80s inside the story and had lots of fun pop culture references to the times.

[Force]

Originally posted by Superskrull

true, but there isn't a clear demarkation that shows the Gold turning to the Silver. All through the 40s & 50's Superman's powers swelled to ever greater proportions and due to the superboy stories, he was always shown as having this power level.

 

The Silver Age of comics is generally known to have started with the origin and first appearance of the Fantastic Four in Fantastic Four number one, November 1961.

 

It is the only 10 cent comic book of the silver age I believe.

 

The Golden Age of comics is generally known for any comics published prior to that.

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Force

The Silver Age of comics is generally known to have started with the origin and first appearance of the Fantastic Four in Fantastic Four number one, November 1961.

 

It is the only 10 cent comic book of the silver age I believe.

 

There was a revival of superheroes by DC that preceded the FF by a few years. IIRC, many place the start of Silver at the first appearance of the new Flash around 1959. Lee got permission from the publisher to do FF partially because the DC superhero comics were successful.

 

However, there is little doubt that Lee/Kirby and their phenomenal run defined the bulk of the Silver Age.

 

Also, IIRC, I think the first 2-3 issues of FF were 10 cents.

 

Holy Finodh, I know WAY too much useless trivia. What a waste of brain cells.

[Agent X]

I've never read a comics authority place the beginning of the Silver Age with the FF. To an "authority" (the ones I came across) they have pointed to the Barry Allen Flash.