Inherent for natural body parts

[Vestnik]

I've been noticing a tendency to automatically apply Inherent to Extra Limb if it is a part of the character's natural body. However I have not noticed this done for other Powers that are part of the body, for instance HKAs (claws and teeth or whatever) or gills and the like. Does anybody know the rationale for this? It's puzzling me; perhaps the reason is obvious and my brain is just caffeine-deprived.

[Mister E]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

I think it has something to do with the active points of the power. Extra Limbs are cheap, and would be too easy to render gone with Adjustment Powers.

 

Beyond that, there is some debate over the validity of EVER using the Inherent Advantage. It has its uses; but breaks down a bit, imo, as it is more of a nebulous SFX issue than a necessary game mechanic.

 

As far as Extra Limbs are concerned, it seems 'armless to me.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

I have no real idea how you can drain a HKA defined as 'metal claws', nor, unless it was as some sort of mental projection, how you could ever drain away an extra limb.

 

If you play in the sort of game where the players are paranoid that the GM is going to try and pull some bizarre fast one with reasonable expectation, you will see inherent a lot (as you will if the GM is equally worried aboutt he players) but it should never ever be really needed for this sort of thing.

 

Now arguably there should be a cost difference between a power that can and cannot be drained, or otherwise adjusted, and inherent is an easy enough way to model that, but I'd rather model it by simply not having the sort of game where the power to drain metal claws and extra limbs simply does not get built.

 

At the end of the day I think whether it in 'necessary' is a matter of the campaign ethos and background. If limb draining is happening then limb draining counters will develop.

 

If it is not happening and the counters appear, you have over-sensitive players and should mock them, pointing all the time to their teammates whose limbs, should the PHANTOM LIMB DRAINER ever saunter along, are in severe danger, but in the meantime are better off, points wise, than their overly paranoid companions. Buying 'inherent' is not wrong, it should just be a waste of effort.

[sinanju]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

Now arguably there should be a cost difference between a power that can and cannot be drained' date=' or otherwise adjusted, and inherent is an easy enough way to model that, but I'd rather model it by simply not having the sort of game where the power to drain metal claws and extra limbs simply does not get built.[/quote']

 

Yes, exactly. In any game I ran, drains and dispels are going to be few and far between. I hate, Hate, HATE stories (or games) where superpowers (and souls, and minds and identities) are treated like liquids, to be drained from one container into another and back again with absurd ease.

[Vondy]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

This is an SFX issue - and the answer depends on that. In most cases extra limbs / natural body-parts / permanent modifications are a part of the character and should be subject to drains. It has to be a case by case decision.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

This subject was discussed (a bit heatedly after a while) here. You might have to read in a ways before you get to body parts.

 

Keith "Just saving time" Curtis

[Vestnik]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

Thanks for the comments!

[tesuji]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

I have no real idea how you can drain a HKA defined as 'metal claws', nor, unless it was as some sort of mental projection, how you could ever drain away an extra limb.

 

just off the top of my head, a "blunt weapon" spell, a "rust weapon" spell or even something as bizarre as an "Aura of peace" which drains/suppresses or maybe even dispells any "weapon" SFX all would be able to affect metal claws HKA.

 

I dont particluarly see these as examples of "Gm trying to pull something" yahdee yahdee and have seen them in more than a few game systems, not necessarily a "HERO SCREW JOB" or somesuch.

 

Now arguably there should be a cost difference between a power that can and cannot be drained, or otherwise adjusted, and inherent is an easy enough way to model that, but I'd rather model it by simply not having the sort of game where the power to drain metal claws and extra limbs simply does not get built.

 

ME? i would prefer to have the game mechanics for adjustment powers run primarily SFX based by default. That way, you would not have a drain vs "all hka regardless of SFX" or vs "extra limbs" that hit them unless the SFX was appropriate. A "suppress mutant abilities" might very well affect "mutant extra limbs." I seem to recall submariner's foot wings getting zapped by an anti-mutant glob monster at some point.

 

As for inherent... if a standard and accepted by-the-book use of inherent is to establish extra limbs as "natural things" then it would seem consistent to also have it applied to other "natural things" reflected by other powers.

 

then again, I see "extra limbs" as an SFX of otuher powers, not as a power in itself as more consistent.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

just off the top of my head, a "blunt weapon" spell, a "rust weapon" spell or even something as bizarre as an "Aura of peace" which drains/suppresses or maybe even dispells any "weapon" SFX all would be able to affect metal claws HKA.

 

I dont particluarly see these as examples of "Gm trying to pull something" yahdee yahdee and have seen them in more than a few game systems, not necessarily a "HERO SCREW JOB" or somesuch.

..............

 

Magic has an awful lot to answer for

 

The thing about magic is that it is not a 'logical construct': if you blunted or rusted a weapon it would probably stay that way until sharpened or chemically treated, so drain, except as a 'it's magic and magic can do anything' sfx doesn't seem to fit the bill.

 

Now when I said I couldn't think of how to 'drain' metal claws I was not being quite honest: I mean 'My drain changes the molecular content of the claws to rubber for a coule of minutes' covers the base, it just doesn't make sense: if you are changing the item, then (as with the rust weapon) you are almost certainly weakening it, and that sort of change is surely the province of transform?

 

I believe, and it is not a particularly popular belief, that sfx work two ways: the sfx have to fit the power, but the power also has to fit the effect.

 

I mean, take the Wolverine character: you could stop him using his claws by paralysing the muscles that he uses to pop them. Now, if I wanted to build it that way drain is not too bad an idea: short duration, recovers....mind you it wouldn't work if the claws were already popped, and that kind of sfx is so narrow it would almost never be useful.

 

I suppose the point I so circuitously try to make is that, IME, it is rare that you find an adjustment power that truly makes sense in terms of its theoretical basis as well as its build.

 

Take, for instance, the 'mutant with extra limbs' scenario: it may have been a mutation that caused them to grow like that, but is it a mutation that is causing them to stay like thet now that they are grown?

 

How, when it comes down to it, do 'mutant powers' work (they are almost as broadly defined as magic). I think that these are questions the GM should be looking at very clsoely at the start of a campaign EVEN IF they don't tell the players the conclusions they reach it will allow the GM to make consistent application decisions, which has to be a good thing. Well, in my book.

[schir1964]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

I mean' date=' take the Wolverine character: you could stop him using his claws by paralysing the muscles that he uses to pop them. Now, if I wanted to build it that way drain is not too bad an idea: short duration, recovers....mind you it wouldn't work if the claws were already popped, and that kind of sfx is so narrow it would almost never be useful.[/quote']

I agree, not to mention that if one has the ability to paralyze muscles, why bother with specific ones? Just paralyze all the muscles in the arms or body and then the character can't attack you physically anyway. But that build would suggest a Drain/Suppress to STR, not Extra Limbs.

 

We've been down this road before. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

Yes' date=' exactly. In any game I ran, drains and dispels are going to be few and far between. I hate, Hate, HATE stories (or games) where superpowers (and souls, and minds and identities) are treated like liquids, to be drained from one container into another and back again with absurd ease.[/quote']

 

I agree unless there's a solid rationale and SFX that I can understand and work with not happening. Right now the only ones I can think of are to dispels vs. magic spells and devices to drain power sources which have to be manually stuck on the device. Nobody's going to suppress anyone's arm!

 

Also there will be no "cures" for the "mutant x" gene. ARRRGGGG!!!!!! stupid! stupid! stupid!

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

Yep - inherent is unnecessary, and frequently silly. If I can suppress an extra limb for five points, why not suppress the others for five more? Suppress 360 degree vision for 10 points? Get the other 120 degrees for five more! Any rule that broken deserves to be killed by GM fiat.

 

IMHO. YMMV (your munchkinry may vary).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

Why do so many game masters prefer Italian cars?

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Inherent for natural body parts

 

Why do so many game masters prefer Italian cars?

It's simple, really - the GM vespa, while more reliable than the GM fiat, is slightly more embarassing to be seen on outside of Europe, and can't hold as many books.