Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Different sides of the same coin. I don't know what "gamist" means' date=' but I was simply looking for the shortest distance between two points. This is HERO, so that means you don't [i']need[/i] to build it as an Autopilot; it can simply be a special effect of the power.

 

Insofar as Trigger, it's the easiest way to model (IMO) any kind of escape clause; the function of Trigger is to create an activation condition.

 

Villain: "Here, let me do an impression for you! CAW CAW BANG **** I'M DEAD!"

 

Player: Yeah, that stung. Okay, I need to get out of here, but even though I'm unconcious, I have Take the Long Way Home, so that trigger (I'm unconcious and/or I want to go home) will now Activate.

 

I used Teleport to model a comparatively safe flight; must cross through intervening space because he's "really there" and finally, "Extra Time (as the GM determines is required to cross said space, -1)" to model that it is actually 'flight' which I built with TP to represent a specific SFX.

 

I'm not saying it's the perfect approach, I'm just offering my two cents on how it would most efficiently be built and keep in the spirit of the power. By all means, if you want to build a "homing computer" in the bird's brain (heh, bird brain) and that resonates with you, go nuts. However, I may not be understanding the power correctly. To me, it sounds like "When down, go home automatically." I would need to see the actual power description to clarify that, so I may simply be interpreting it incorrectly.

 

Sure, and that is a way to do it that is valid. Ive used it myself, and I have no problem with it. But it is a handwavy way to do it, and its not right in all cases for all people. The computer method is a more "realistic" approach and will work better for some SFX and for some people.

 

That's the beauty of the HERO System -- we can all be right.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

To me' date=' it sounds like "When down, go home automatically." I would need to see the actual power description to clarify that, so I may simply be interpreting it incorrectly.[/quote']

 

It seemed to me this was only something that could be turned on at will, rather than automatically. Perhaps I missinterpreted. Who knows, we both got valid builds. Either one can work, depending on what's actually needed.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

And as KS noted, that's really the core thing. We can argue over which is better, or more appropriate to the SFX, but we're both "right." Both builds are valid and work. Look at him go. Moderatin' and stuff.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

I'm not experienced with "escape clause" powers, but what about the following:

 

AI option: The character has an AI with bump of direction, senses and movement powers equal to the character. The AI has but one program: If character becomes unconscious, fly him home. The character is advised to turn the AI's program off if he wishes to have a sleepover at his girlfriend's place. Of course, if he was wearing beer goggles when he met her, maybe not?

 

No AI option: How about borrowing the "floating location" from teleport (to simulate knowledge of the route back home) and slapping it on flight, 0 END, triggered when unconscious? Or you could do this with an AI in charge of navigation, though I think that would be like my first suggestion above.

 

I really don't see any problem with using teleport that covers the intervening ground at a rate equal to the character's flight ability. Sometimes the special effects are just smoke and mirrors for the underlying mechanic.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

That's assuming the characters flight costs END.

 

True, though I think that is far more common than it being zero END.

 

Also' date=' END Reserves don't drop to 0 even if a character is unconscious;[/quote']

 

While I can't find a statement saying this, I have found two statements that point very strongly to it.

 

P 158: "Powers that draw END from an Endurance Reserve can keep doing so, and thus keep functioning, even if the character is Stunned, Knocked Out, asleep, or the like -- the Reserve doesn't lose its END in those situations."

 

P 411: "The body of an unconscious character puts its entire energy reserve into waking up. Because of this, when he wakes up, his END equals his current STUN total."

 

So, if a character doesn't loose their END when Knocked Out, why would they lose all but a small fraction of it upon Waking Up? It makes no sense to have it that way.

 

if the Flight did cost END an END Reserve could be bought for the Flight. You could even limit it to "Only Usable While Unconscious".

 

That would require the Flight be bought with the advantage that allows it to draw from either personal END or from Reserve END. But that would legitimately solve the END-while-unconscious problem.

 

Not the same thing at all. Vehicle movement is handled a little differently than character movement' date=' as discussed in detail in TUV. Even if a GM allowed an AI piloting the PC scenario, the PC is not actually a vehicle and their flight power would need Persistent to run while they were unconscious.[/quote']

 

For a character's movement to be made Persistent, it would have to be made Zero END as well. I looked in the Movement section of TUV, and aside from the fact that movement defaults to not costing END for the vehicle, I don't see how it bears on this situation. Could you give a page (and perhaps paragraph) reference, please?

 

Of course' date=' on the other hand, once you start handwaving to reach an effect, you can go as far as you need to.[/quote']

 

Yes, Handwavium (symbol Hw) is a very, very powerful, and dangerous element, and should be used very sparingly, if at all.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

It just sounds wrong to me though. And why Trigger? I thought this was supposed to be something that was consciously controlled (not consciously performed, but consciously controlled: i.e. the character has to deliberately want to go home and be physically capable to doing so).

 

In any case, for me, an autopilot will (almost) always be built as a Computer.

 

A Trigger can be set up with the condition being "When this button is pressed". The character can choose to press that button. (EDIT/ADD: As far as I know, the power can be used & controlled normally from then on, until it is turned off/shut off. But I may be misinterpreting the Trigger Advantage.)

 

Perhaps we (meaning me at the least ) need more info on how this power is meant to work. Then I (and others) can build from there (there's that pesky 'reasoning from effects' thingy again!). Currently, I am taking stabs in the semi-dark about how this power is meant to operate.

[archermoo]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

While I can't find a statement saying this, I have found two statements that point very strongly to it.

 

 

 

So, if a character doesn't loose their END when Knocked Out, why would they lose all but a small fraction of it upon Waking Up? It makes no sense to have it that way.

 

You are confusing personal END and an Endurance Reserve. You lose all of your personal END when you get KO'ed, but if you bought an END Reserve it continues clicking along no problems.

[Kirby]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Specifically' date=' "Swallow's Return"[/quote']Porn HERO?

 

 

To the actual issue at hand, would it be too difficult to buy this as Flight using the Trigger advantage (unconscious) with a limitation for 'only to home'? (No Conscious Control would be a funny limitation as well, due to the name.)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

A Trigger can be set up with the condition being "When this button is pressed". The character can choose to press that button. (EDIT/ADD: As far as I know, the power can be used & controlled normally from then on, until it is turned off/shut off. But I may be misinterpreting the Trigger Advantage.)

 

Perhaps we (meaning me at the least ) need more info on how this power is meant to work. Then I (and others) can build from there (there's that pesky 'reasoning from effects' thingy again!). Currently, I am taking stabs in the semi-dark about how this power is meant to operate.

 

We're all sort of running around, poking each other in the eyes because we HAVEN'T been told precisely how it should work, or what level of literal translation the OP is looking for.

 

Insofar as Trigger, you're not misinterpreting it; you can have it accept two separate conditions for a +1/4 advantage, IIRC. One condition being "I wanna go home" and the other being "I'm dying, I go home automatically." The "teleport" model is also a good way for the bird to "suddenly" get up and zip off into the sky.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

...Sometimes the special effects are just smoke and mirrors for the underlying mechanic.

 

Fixed the glitches!

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

To the actual issue at hand' date=' would it be too difficult to buy this as Flight using the Trigger advantage (unconscious) with a limitation for 'only to home'? (No Conscious Control would be a funny limitation as well, due to the name.)[/quote']

 

How about Flight, Triggered, "only to home", Unconscious control?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

You are confusing personal END and an Endurance Reserve. You lose all of your personal END when you get KO'ed' date=' but if you bought an END Reserve it continues clicking along no problems.[/quote']

 

Actually, I'm not. What I am confusing is what the other poster said. I could have sworn the word "Reserve" wasn't there. I blame leftover brain-addling from my accident.

[archermoo]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Actually' date=' I'm not. What I [b']am[/b] confusing is what the other poster said. I could have sworn the word "Reserve" wasn't there. I blame leftover brain-addling from my accident.

 

Well then, never mind.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

This is really striking me as a non ability at the moment, but perhaps I'm just not understanding how it would be used in game.

 

How do you represent being to tired to fly? Lack of END? Haven't slept in X number of hours? If the later, then perhaps this is a very limited from of life support - Doesn't need to Sleep. SFX wise the character is still technically sleeping and can't take normal actions, but since he has LS he can still take the actions necessary to fly home.

 

If the character is too wounded to fly... well... do you have some kind of penalties in your game that would prevent the character from flying until they heal to a certain point? If so then perhaps this could just be a PSL of some kind. Or an AID to BODY that fades once the character gets home.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Not the same thing at all. Vehicle movement is handled a little differently than character movement' date=' as discussed in detail in TUV. Even if a GM allowed an AI piloting the PC scenario, the PC is not actually a vehicle and their flight power would need Persistent to run while they were unconscious.[/quote']

 

For a character's movement to be made Persistent' date=' it would have to be made Zero END as well. I looked in the Movement section of TUV, and aside from the fact that movement defaults to not costing END for the vehicle, I don't see how it bears on this situation. Could you give a page (and perhaps paragraph) reference, please?[/quote']

 

Actually, if a Constant Power runs off an END Reserve, the Power continues to function until the END Reserve runs empty or the character turns it off, so it doesn't need to be Persistant to operate while the character is KOed.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

A Trigger can be set up with the condition being "When this button is pressed". The character can choose to press that button. (EDIT/ADD: As far as I know' date=' the power can be used & controlled normally from then on, until it is turned off/shut off. But I may be misinterpreting the Trigger Advantage.)[/quote']

 

You could also an Attack Power with the Trigger being "when I spend a half phase attack action to aim this Power"... but you shouldn't.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

This is really striking me as a non ability at the moment, but perhaps I'm just not understanding how it would be used in game.

 

How do you represent being to tired to fly? Lack of END? Haven't slept in X number of hours? If the later, then perhaps this is a very limited from of life support - Doesn't need to Sleep. SFX wise the character is still technically sleeping and can't take normal actions, but since he has LS he can still take the actions necessary to fly home.

 

If the character is too wounded to fly... well... do you have some kind of penalties in your game that would prevent the character from flying until they heal to a certain point? If so then perhaps this could just be a PSL of some kind. Or an AID to BODY that fades once the character gets home.

 

LS: No Need To Sleep, Only To Fly While Sleeping?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Actually' date=' if a Constant Power runs off an END Reserve, the Power continues to function until the END Reserve runs empty or the character turns it off, so it doesn't need to be Persistent to operate while the character is KOed.[/quote']

 

When I made my statement, I was talking about regular END. I am aware of the fact that END Reserves continue to power any Constant/Continuous powers that were drawing from them at the time of the Stunning/K.O. Or possibly later on if "control" is taken up by a Computer/AI.

 

But to have a power draw from either one's own END or a Reserve for when the character is Unconscious still requires the "Power Can Draw END From Character Or Endurance Reserve(+1/4)".

[SteveZilla]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

For consideration:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53541

[Dust Raven]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

When I made my statement' date=' I was talking about regular END. I am aware of the fact that END Reserves continue to power any Constant/Continuous powers that were drawing from them at the time of the Stunning/K.O. Or [i']possibly[/i] later on if "control" is taken up by a Computer/AI.

 

But to have a power draw from either one's own END or a Reserve for when the character is Unconscious still requires the "Power Can Draw END From Character Or Endurance Reserve(+1/4)".

 

If the Power could draw from either, it would depend on what it was drawing from at the time the character went unconscious. I might allow an additional Advantage to cause the Power to automatically switch to END Reserve if KO'ed or Stunned to keep it running (no more than +1/4).

 

For consideration:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53541

 

Figures.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Hmm. You could just go home and CLAIM you were on autopilot. If you actually wanted a power, buy bump of direction and an END reserve useable with movement powers.

 

I'm still unclear what this does that you can't do anyway just by, you know, walking (or flying).

 

Do like DR's 'LS sleep' thing though - that's a good one.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

For consideration:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53541

 

HA! Vindication!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Hmm. You could just go home and CLAIM you were on autopilot. If you actually wanted a power' date=' buy bump of direction and an END reserve useable with movement powers.[/quote']

 

That is one that that's been confusing me as well. What exactly does this do... really? What's the advantage? Sure, it's a convience to the character, but is it an advantage in the game? It could be I suppose; it just depends on the campaign.

[Lethosos]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

Yeah, that was the problem with it. But it's in the orignal material; given that the players already have required built-in continual Regeneration, I'd just sit someplace quiet and rest for a bit. SInce I'm just re-building the stuff in the spirit of the orignal, I figured that if there's no clear answer, I can ignore it.

 

But, hey, the Computer answer helped me also solve a pair of mimic powers. These things go into a Framework just so that I can make it feed off an outside END reserve with recovery limitations.

[Checkmate]

Re: Inflicting Mental Commands on Yourself

 

I apologize for only reading to page two before posting, but something stuck me as a bit funny:

People have a problem with Extra time added to T-port having the effect that it's travel time, not standing there doing nothing as it doesn't sit well with them even though there are specific examples in offical books. Having A.I. control a human being they're okay with?