Help with signs of Mage ranks

[JmOz]

Ok, like it or not, I have a level system for my magic

 

As a part of the ruling council of mages each rank is represented by a magic Item, what follows is what I have currently, I am having a hard time with a few details

 

Rank 0, The dabbler.

 

5 Active Points in spells, no item represents this level

 

Rank 1, Student

6-15 Active Points in spells, represented by the Ring of the Magi. 1/1 Armor, OIF, a Crystal Ring

 

Rank 2, Inititate

16-25 Active Points, Represented by the dagger of the magi, a Crystal Dager, provides +5 to Cryptography rolls, only for reading

 

Rank 3, Apprentice

26-35, represented by ____________, provides +4 PSL vs Spellcasting rolls

 

Rank 4, Magi

36-45 Active Points,Cloak of the Magi, Provides various Life support (Heat, cold, etc...)

 

Rank 5 Arch Magi

46-55, Staff of the Arch Magi, END Reserve for casting spells

 

Rank 6, __________

56-65, ___________, An Amulet provideing PowD (this might be moved to the apprentice level, if so I will need something here)

 

Rank 7 ________________-

 

66-75 ____________, a head piece (tiera like) that provides ________________________

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Ok' date=' like it or not, I have a level system for my magic[/quote']

 

Not a problem. We all have our idiosyncracies. I think it's almost necessary to have some sort of mental frame work to put everyone's ability into. So this is a good start.

 

Crystal ring, crystal dagger. I'm seeing a theme here.

 

Rank 3, Apprentice

26-35, represented by a Crystal Pendant, provides +4 PSL vs Spellcasting rolls

 

Rank 6, Mage of the Council

56-65, what are you looking for here?, An Amulet provideing PowD PowD? Er... huh? (this might be moved to the apprentice level, if so I will need something here)

 

Rank 7 Arch-Mage of the Council

 

66-75 ____________, a head piece (tiera like) that provides mind-link to other Council Arch-Magi? A full blown Force Field? Access to Secret Spells, an additional set of spells?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Here's an idea:

 

Move the cloak to Level 3, the Staff to Level 4 (the abilities could remain the same as they are at each level).

 

At Level 5 the item becomes the headpiece (tiara, skull cap, what have you). Level 6 and Level 7 each add something to the headpiece, a gem, series of arcane marks, etc.

 

The idea is at Level 5 the item is always some headpiece but become a bit more personalized. Maybe one mage is a classic Wizards Hat, one might be a skull cap, another might have a series of looped and chained earings, another a crown, a tiara, etc. . .

[JmOz]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Yes crystal plays an important part in the magic system, basicaly certain crystals hold enchantments, and pure magical power better

 

Renamed rank #2 to novice

 

As for the ammulet, a name for it is the main thing, the reason for PowD is a rule for the magic system, basicaly all attack spells will have a lim that the power works against the combined total of PowD and the appropriate defence. The only way to lift this lim is if the spell is a AVLD vs PowD.

 

I like Arch-mage & mage of the Council but think I will use them for something slightly different (not just rank 6-7 but instead the sitting members of the council)

[JmOz]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Here's an idea:

 

Move the cloak to Level 3, the Staff to Level 4 (the abilities could remain the same as they are at each level).

 

At Level 5 the item becomes the headpiece (tiara, skull cap, what have you). Level 6 and Level 7 each add something to the headpiece, a gem, series of arcane marks, etc.

 

The idea is at Level 5 the item is always some headpiece but become a bit more personalized. Maybe one mage is a classic Wizards Hat, one might be a skull cap, another might have a series of looped and chained earings, another a crown, a tiara, etc. . .

 

Interesting idea

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Wasn't there a post about this previously?

[JmOz]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Wasn't there a post about this previously?

 

probably, I've been kicking the idea around for a long time, speradicaly

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

I thought it was Deja Vu. there was a prior post, good. No, sorry, I was unclear: What does PowD mean? I'm not piecing together the acronym into real information. Hep meh!

 

Oh, and what I was thinking of last night, while we're borrowing, d20 hacked the Chakra point system; they use the following mechanics:

 

-- Head Piece

-- Earrings

-- Necklace

-- Chest Piece (shirt)

-- Forgot Belt/Girdle

-- Two Rings

-- Two Bracelets/Arm Bands

-- Leggings

-- Boots

 

We're in HERO, and while I don't mean to draw comparisons, you can do something more along the lines of jewelry. Also, to build on what GA is saying, you may find +4 PSLs All Magic is too effective; an Apprentice Elementalist may have zippy need for an Apprentice Warlock's necklace. Doesn't do him any good at all. I'm asking, in part, how are you breaking this out?

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

I thought it was Deja Vu. there was a prior post' date=' good. No, sorry, I was unclear: What does PowD [i']mean[/i]? I'm not piecing together the acronym into real information. Hep meh!

 

I would assume Power Defence

[Manic Typist]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Yeah, don't forget a ring as a good symbol of authority.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Rank 5, Arch Magi

Rank 6, Elder Arch Magi

Rank 7, "Retired" Arch Magi

 

Arch mage is something I feel should only be reached in your thirties or early 40's. Therefore the next rank above it should be elder, since that's when you start getting the grey hair (Age 40+, Age 60+).

 

And although I suspect Arch Mages never "retire" they may co-op the word as a simple explanation on why they don't seem to do anything (they do, it's just all behind the scenes). When a "Retired" Arch Magi comes out of "retirement" and out of his tower, it's really bad news.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

POWER DEFENSE. That makes sense.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Are the items cumulative? When you become a Mage, do you lose your +4 PSLs?

 

As Manic Typist said, a ring is often a symbol of higher authority, so you may wish to save that item for a higher level. Or not.

 

I'd suggest a crystal bracelet for the Apprentice (level 3). Are these items used for identification of rank? Sort of like the stripes, bars, stars, etc., on a military uniform? A guy carrying a staff meets a guy wearing a bracelet instantly know each other's rank.

 

Are you married to the terms Magi and Arch Magi for levels 4 and 5? If not, you could save those for levels 6 and 7, and use some other intermediate terms, like Adept.

 

Other possible high-rank terms:

 

Grand Magus

Hierophant

Wizard (stick with the classics)

 

As to the item names, since everything else is "___ of the Magi", why not, Bracelet (or Bracer) or the Magi, Amulet of the Magi, Crown of the Magi.

 

As to what the crown provides:

 

Sense Magic (including Discriminatory, Range, Sense, 360 degrees, maybe other stuff too, like Analyze), and other senses, like Mental Awareness, Sense Invisible Objects/People, maybe even Danger Sense. Maybe even some full-blown Mental Power Senses, like Telepathy, Mind Link, or Mind Scan

[JmOz]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Are the items cumulative? When you become a Mage, do you lose your +4 PSLs?

 

As Manic Typist said, a ring is often a symbol of higher authority, so you may wish to save that item for a higher level. Or not.

 

I'd suggest a crystal bracelet for the Apprentice (level 3). Are these items used for identification of rank? Sort of like the stripes, bars, stars, etc., on a military uniform? A guy carrying a staff meets a guy wearing a bracelet instantly know each other's rank.

 

Are you married to the terms Magi and Arch Magi for levels 4 and 5? If not, you could save those for levels 6 and 7, and use some other intermediate terms, like Adept.

 

Other possible high-rank terms:

 

Grand Magus

Hierophant

Wizard (stick with the classics)

 

As to the item names, since everything else is "___ of the Magi", why not, Bracelet (or Bracer) or the Magi, Amulet of the Magi, Crown of the Magi.

 

As to what the crown provides:

 

Sense Magic (including Discriminatory, Range, Sense, 360 degrees, maybe other stuff too, like Analyze), and other senses, like Mental Awareness, Sense Invisible Objects/People, maybe even Danger Sense. Maybe even some full-blown Mental Power Senses, like Telepathy, Mind Link, or Mind Scan

 

 

 

Lots of great questions, let me take them one by one.

 

Yes the items are cumulitive, a level 7 would have 7 signs of passage. They are under no obligation to carry any or all of them except in rare circumstances (When meeting in the council chambers, as an official dignitary of the council, etc...) and then only the highest sign is needed, but nothing stops them from having all 7 with them (thus the reason why I am trying to keep them varied)

 

Yes the items are used to indicate rank by those in the know, not quite as strict as military, as there is no penalty for a higher mage possing as a lower by not carrying his higher rank items

 

I'm not really married to any of the names yet, however I do have a rough idea of what I want each level to normaly be doing, and I like some of your ideas

 

 

The Master/Student assosiation is very inportant, involving alot of political power in the council. This goes both ways, a disgraced apprentice hurts the master, a disgraced master can ruin an apprentice

 

Level 0: Students (starting), studing in groups (10-15)

 

Level 1: Students (Advanced), studing in small groups (3-5), probably expected to help with Level 0 training under supervision

 

Level 2: one on one with a master, lots of supervision

 

Level 3: Still one on one with a master, but now more of a helper than a student

 

Level 4: Out on there own, learning, working, etc... Probably still in contact with master, but now the Master serves as a consultant to harder problems. many at this level become local mages in townships, personal mages to lords and such, military mages, etc... Lowest level that can accept apprentices, but it is frowned on. Many will return to there original school to teach the next generation for a while, while continuing research

 

Level 5: Same as level 4, but less learning and more working. Will often work for higher nobles including kings, etc... Normal level to accept apprentices

 

Level 6 & 7: Few mages make it this far, many that do retire from the world to concentrate on magic

[The Monster]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

A couple thoughts:

 

It might be fun if the bonuses given by the items increased when higher items were carried at the same time. For example, the student's ring gives 1 point of armor when first attained; upon receiving the item for 2d level, the ring will give 2 armor when carried with the item that level 2 people get. And so forth. With so few levels, the highest magi would be walking around with the equivalent of normal chain or plate armor, which really doesn't seem too bad. Skill bonuses can stack up the same way. This would add complexity, but would also make the items more impressive when trotted around as a set.

 

On a social level, these items would be instant badges recognized not just by magicians but by the general populace. At least on some level - even someone sporting just a crystal ring might be expected (or suspected) to do all kinds of magic by ignorant masses and nobility, who don't understand such things. Of course, there's the question of what happens when one of these items is stolen (can someone else use its power?), and how easy they are to forge ("trust me, I'm a Magus - just look at my kewl cloak! Really!").

[JmOz]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

A couple thoughts:

 

It might be fun if the bonuses given by the items increased when higher items were carried at the same time. For example, the student's ring gives 1 point of armor when first attained; upon receiving the item for 2d level, the ring will give 2 armor when carried with the item that level 2 people get. And so forth. With so few levels, the highest magi would be walking around with the equivalent of normal chain or plate armor, which really doesn't seem too bad. Skill bonuses can stack up the same way. This would add complexity, but would also make the items more impressive when trotted around as a set.

 

On a social level, these items would be instant badges recognized not just by magicians but by the general populace. At least on some level - even someone sporting just a crystal ring might be expected (or suspected) to do all kinds of magic by ignorant masses and nobility, who don't understand such things. Of course, there's the question of what happens when one of these items is stolen (can someone else use its power?), and how easy they are to forge ("trust me, I'm a Magus - just look at my kewl cloak! Really!").

 

The social level stuff is already planned, and you are right that the normal people will be able to tell somewhat, better educated, better understanding (With level 1 wizards being mistaken for really powerful being somewhat common for the boondocks)

[Photon1966]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

In my campaign we focused on the staff of the wizard and some of the robes. Beginning wizards robes are plain and lack any details, same with teh staff. As they progress in power the are able to add runes to the robes and items to the staff. I like to keep the idea that anyone wearing these items is thought of as a mage but a mage would have KS Mages or the like and be able to better judge the apparent power of the Mage. Now the mages don't ahve to wear the robes or staff but as the runes and added items like enchanted gems and woods to the staff make them better they tend to. But I did have a player who would take them off and travel incognito except in towns where there was a Mage tower and then he'd put them back on.

 

I found my players like the idea of a single item theat they build up over time rather then several different items. This also allowed me to make one wizard group "Royal League of the Arcane" use the staff and robes while the Elementalists carried an Orb of their element and wore robes. Again the Orb grew in power as they adventured an iether added points of their own or gathered points from adventure sites like the Fire Rock Mountains for our resisdent Pyromanic wizard.

 

Kingdoms of Kalimar campaign setting books has a horde of groups in it with titles and ranking names, which I have used in my own campaign from time to time. It's under gods of Tellene but is a possible source of inspiration if you have access to that book. Another is Bastion Presses Guildcraft which has a couple of wizard guilds and accompaning titles as well as benefits for belonging to the guild.

 

Just a few thoughts

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Mmm. Seven levels. Well, eight, really.

 

Novice

Apprentice

Initiate

Journeyman

Adept

Master

Magi

Arch-Magi

 

Journeymen keep contact with their masters, still 'working under' them, while Adepts are along the lines of Senior Journeymen -- they do their own projects, but sometimes consult with their Masters about a particular idea/problem/situation. Masters are the typical Powerful City Wizard -- consults with the Lord Mayor or Count or whatever. Magi consult with the Duke/King; there's darn few of them.

 

Arch-Magi are, traditionally, few and far between -- powerful and remote, also cranky and ill-tempered. They consult with kings, or rather kings come to them; they're that powerful and influential. Magi and Arch-Magi are high-skill 'specialists' as well -- those few people that obsess over magic and research into every nook and cranny of their chosen technique.

 

As for items -- Novices, Apprentices, and Initiates should all have items that are both difficult to misplace and everyday-use items -- a pendant, a bracelet, a cloak-clasp. Yes, I would give an indicator to a Novice; how else is Mistress Baker to know that the kid works for you? Plus it'll help him with his schoolwork. Initiate is the point where they really go out and get their hands dirty, so a cloak-clasp would work (makes for a nice ceremony, too: 'Put on your cloak, here's your cloak clasp, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!!').

 

Initiates, Journeymen, and Adepts are the ones 'out in the field', so the items should be more durable, have practical uses -- the cloak-clasp, the cloak itself, the dagger. Reverse the order on the dagger and the cloak if you want it to be known that you're higher level or not. "Ah, you're a Journeyman." *shows dagger* "My apologies, Adept." Or else it's "Ah, I see you're an Adept."

 

The staff would be the hallmark of the Master, a character level that's settled into teaching, occasionally going out and doing 'great works' in the countryside. Big, noticeable, people can see you halfway down the block and accord you the respect you darn well deserve. Also good for thwacking errant students and thumping on the floor to get the bloody chatterboxes' attention.

 

Gaining the level of Magi would be one of great ceremony and such -- recognition by your peers, acclaim of the governor/duke/king, etc. The circlet/crown/tiara would be a perfect item for this ceremony, and of course to help indicate your rank at public functions. Make it a 'special use' item, though, because trust me, those suckers hurt if you wear them long-term.

 

Magi acclaim Arch-Magi, and Arch-Magi frankly don't generally care if someone recognizes them or not; they'd rather go about their business and buy their spell components and send adventurers out to get twenty-five warthog livers or whatever. However, all they should have to do is just call attention to their not-generally-noticed emblem, and boy does everyone know who they are!! A ring is perfect for this; also, ALL of the preceeding items' powers should be combined within the ring, so that all the Arch-Magi needs to wear is the ring to get all the bonuses. This reinforces the genre concept of rings being great power in tiny packages, as well as works off the historical real-world reality that a Signet (ring) was a sign of tremendous power/influence. Reference this paraphrased description of the brothers dy Jironal:

 

The Curse of Chalion

Dondo dy Jironal ("Stocky, black eyebrows, tendency to sweat profusely, forty years old") is the younger brother of a powerful man; he wears several jeweled rings, bracelets, and other jewelry to try to emphasize his wealth and power.

 

His older brother, the March Martou dy Jironal ("Spare, graying, often unsmiling, cool of eye, tense with energy") is the March (marquess, or marquis, above a count but below a duke) dy Jironal, becomes Provincar (duke), is the nation's Chancellor, and is the General of one of the five religious orders -- thus commanding a significant chunk of military men. He wears only three rings -- the Signet of the March (then the Provincar), the Signet of the General, and the Signet of the Chancellor. Those three rings basically say it all: 'I've Got The Power.'

 

The ring of the arch-magi is concealable if the arch-magi wants it to be, but says exactly what it should when displayed: 'I've Got The Power'.

 

Sorry; I've just got this image of a party babbling and annoying this old man at a tavern or something, and the annoyed guy just leans on his hand, the ring showing...

 

Also, if the arch-magi is violently slain by another, the thing should pull off one of those wonderful 'retributive strikes', just to make sure he takes his killers with him ...

 

As for powers:

 

Pendant: Cryptography Bonus

Bracelet: Power Defense (or Armor)

Cloak Clasp: Armor (or Power Defense)

Cloak: Life Support

Dagger: Spellcasting Bonus

Circlet: Telepathy or Mind-Link with other Circlet Wearers (read: Magi) -- makes gem on other circlet glow so that that mage knows to put it on...

Ring: All of the above in spades, plus something really kickass.

 

Mental Illusions, maybe, to make the place be like whatever he wants; better yet: Telekinesis (10 STR), Affects Porous, Fine Manipulation, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; +1), Selective (+1/4) (96 Active Points); Independent (-2), No Range (-1/2), IIF Unbreakable (-1/4): 26 points. So long as it doesn't go over 200 lbs of stuff, he controls whatever he wants in a 50+' diameter area centered on him. Great for work in the lab...

[The Monster]

Re: Help with signs of Mage ranks

 

Another possibility to consider is having certain items that have powers and act as badges of rank to those who know, and an entirely seperate item which is more of a public badge, not necessarily powerful but easily recognized. For example, all mages might have a staff, which has certain decorations added to it as ranks progress: a novice's staff has a silver ring around the tip; an inititate adds a gold ring below the silver; a journeyman adds an emerald ring below that, and so forth. This would make a wizard easily recognized by everyone, and even the most ignorant coudl follow that more powerful magi have more shinies on their staff ("Cor, I ne'er seen one wit *six* rings round 'is staff!") [not to mention the inevitable rude jokes made behind mages' backs].

When a mage doesn't want to attract attention, he just covers or leaves his staff behind, or camouflages it with a simple cantrip. Then he won't get stares from every farmer and woodsman, but people who recognize the other regalia would know to offer the appropriate respect.

As far as forgery, it wouldn't be hard - though a bit expensive for higher ranks - but considering the penalties for impersonating a wizard, carrying a big sign saying "I'm a mage" is likely to lead quickly to any real mage spotting you calling you out, in addition to the likely legal trouble.