movement

[steph]

ok in a heroic game a character got 6 base movement right? and a hex = 2 meters rights? my question is it is realistic in a phase who that suppose to be one seconde a character can run 24 meters..........let see you got a character with 6 base move and at is phase he decide to run for is life and use is full move of 12 with 0 ocv and 0 dcv at the end of is phase ( one second) he is at 12 hex away (for 24 meters).......hum it is possible ?? i mean in a heroic context?

hope i am clear

english not my first language

stef

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: movement

 

in theory an action is what you do between one phase and another, so a regular person runs 6" in 6 seconds because they have speed 2, or 1" per second, which is still pretty fast for sustained running but i could see that as being possible. Really you need to average out their movement over a period of time

[Warp9]

Re: movement

 

ok in a heroic game a character got 6 base movement right? and a hex = 2 meters rights? my question is it is realistic in a phase who that suppose to be one seconde a character can run 24 meters..........let see you got a character with 6 base move and at is phase he decide to run for is life and use is full move of 12 with 0 ocv and 0 dcv at the end of is phase ( one second) he is at 12 hex away (for 24 meters).......hum it is possible ?? i mean in a heroic context?

hope i am clear

english not my first language

stef

You move on each phase, not on each segment.

 

You get a number of phases per turn equal to your SPD stat.

 

A normal person has a SPD of 2.

 

Thus, a normal person has 2 phases in a Turn, which means 2 moves per 12 seconds.

 

A normal person moves 6 hexes per phase.

 

2 moves of 6 hexes means a move of 12 hexes per turn.

 

12 hexes in 12 seconds = 1 hex per second, or 2 meters per second.

 

2 meters per second is the same as 7.2 km per hour (2 meters X 3,600 seconds = 7,200 meters).

 

7.2 km per hour is not all that fast.

 

You can double that if you are using noncombat speeds---which is 14.4 kmh.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: movement

 

I have the whole thing precoded into a spread sheet for quick reference. I have a human as:

 

Move: 6"

NCM Mult. 4

SPD 2

MPH: 17.9

KPH: 29.0 (assuming I did the KPH calc right. )

[Warp9]

Re: movement

 

I have the whole thing precoded into a spread sheet for quick reference. I have a human as:

 

Move: 6"

NCM Mult. 4

SPD 2

MPH: 17.9

KPH: 29.0 (assuming I did the KPH calc right. )

 

I always thought the default NCM was 2. But perhaps it has been too long since I looked at the rules.

 

 

On the KPH thing. . . . Since we are dealing with 1 hex = 2 meters, KPH is pretty easy to figure:

 

meters per second X 3,600 then divide by 1,000 to get km.

[ghost-angel]

Re: movement

 

the default NCM is x2.

 

 

everyone else answered the rest pretty well.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: movement

 

I always thought default NCM was 4. d'oh.

[Outsider]

Re: movement

 

Or, if you're speed 4 and a fast (but not abnormally fast!) runner

 

10"/phase x 4 Phases/Turn x 5 Turns/Minute x 60 Minutes/hour = 24,000"/Hour = 48kph = 30mph.

 

I've always thought it was a bit off that someone can run faster than the fastest olympic sprinter without even having to go past the NCM limits.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea (in heroic games) of divorcing SPD from movement. (ie halve the cost of movement powers and buy movement per turn, then divide by SPD to get movement per phase. No faster movement just by buying SPD) This idea, of course has been bounced around here regularly over the years.

 

 

As to the chunkiness of HERO phased movement, I suppose one could do movement by segments. A person running 12"/turn would move 1" per segment, one running 14"/turn would move 1" per segment plus 1" more on segments that SPD 2 would move on, one running 18"/turn, 1" per segment plus 1" more per segment that SPD 6 would act on, etc. It means that a slower runner who has a phase won't catch up to a faster one who doesnt, but it'd really slow down combat.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: movement

 

Or, if you're speed 4 and a fast (but not abnormally fast!) runner

 

10"/phase x 4 Phases/Turn x 5 Turns/Minute x 60 Minutes/hour = 24,000"/Hour = 48kph = 30mph.

 

I've always thought it was a bit off that someone can run faster than the fastest olympic sprinter without even having to go past the NCM limits.

 

I would consider someone at the NCM limit to be "abnormally fast", especially when he is at the NCM limit for both running and speed.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea (in heroic games) of divorcing SPD from movement. (ie halve the cost of movement powers and buy movement per turn, then divide by SPD to get movement per phase. No faster movement just by buying SPD) This idea, of course has been bounced around here regularly over the years.

 

 

As to the chunkiness of HERO phased movement, I suppose one could do movement by segments. A person running 12"/turn would move 1" per segment, one running 14"/turn would move 1" per segment plus 1" more on segments that SPD 2 would move on, one running 18"/turn, 1" per segment plus 1" more per segment that SPD 6 would act on, etc. It means that a slower runner who has a phase won't catch up to a faster one who doesnt, but it'd really slow down combat.

 

I think you have a lot of your answer there. It would slow down combat (a common occurence in most games) to better model real-world sprinting (which has little to no impact in most games). At some point (and it's a different desired point for each of us), "playability" must override "realism".

[Outsider]

Re: movement

 

Its all a matter of how one views the "normal" characteristic maximum. I see it as the limit of normal. Anything above it isnt unattainable, its just abnormal.

 

And that 30mph run isnt even pushing.

 

On the other hand, if one divorced movement from SPD, then a normal 'fast' runner would be half that speed, or 15 mph. To get to olympic heights, one would have to buy his running past the normal range. A combination of buying running past the NCM and successfully pushing is what gets the olympic sprinter up to the ~23 mph or so that is the world record speed.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: movement

 

Its all a matter of how one views the "normal" characteristic maximum. I see it as the limit of normal. Anything above it isnt unattainable' date=' its just abnormal.[/quote']

 

I don't perceive a horde of characters with the maximum stat, and a very very few with one more. I consider the character with 20 STR to be quite rare, and the character with greater STR to be even more rare.

 

And that 30mph run isnt even pushing.

 

[PET PEEVE]Normals CAN'T push. A character can ONLY push if he is exceptional, and the circumstances are also exceptional.[/pet peeve]

 

On the other hand' date=' if one divorced movement from SPD, then a normal 'fast' runner would be half that speed, or 15 mph. To get to olympic heights, one would have to buy his running past the normal range. A combination of buying running past the NCM and successfully pushing is what gets the olympic sprinter up to the ~23 mph or so that is the world record speed.[/quote']

 

[PET PEEVE]He CAN'T PUSH! The rule book specifically uses an Olympic weightlifter in gold medal contention as an example of a situation where a character CANNOT PUSH his STR. The same would apply to an Olympic class runner. [/pet peeve]

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: movement

 

you actually didn't factor non-combat running, which would make a running of 10", be 20" which doubles the whole equation to 60MPH, which seems a tad fast for a human even at all the caps for movement.

[Sean Waters]

Re: movement

 

..................

 

 

[PET PEEVE]Normals CAN'T push. A character can ONLY push if he is exceptional, and the circumstances are also exceptional.[/pet peeve]

 

 

 

..................

 

 

 

We're all exceptional in our own way

[Sean Waters]

Re: movement

 

you actually didn't factor non-combat running' date=' which would make a running of 10", be 20" which doubles the whole equation to 60MPH, which seems a tad fast for a human even at all the caps for movement.[/quote']

 

A SPD 4 human with 10" of running and a 2xNCM can make 30mph, or thereabouts.

 

Too fast, but not so far out of the park it bugs me unduly.

 

10" running at speed 3 is about Olympic sprinter speed.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: movement

 

I was just doubleing with outsider did, since he didn't use Non-combat speeds

[Sean Waters]

Re: movement

 

Quick calculator....

 

Inches per turn x 0.72 gives you kmph

Inches per turn x 0.45 gives you mph

[Outsider]

Re: movement

 

I was just doubleing with outsider did' date=' since he didn't use Non-combat speeds[/quote']

 

Actually, I did, i just didnt show the step. sorry. 10x4x5x60 = 12000, whereas I wrote 24000.

[Outsider]

Re: movement

 

I don't perceive a horde of characters with the maximum stat, and a very very few with one more. I consider the character with 20 STR to be quite rare, and the character with greater STR to be even more rare.

 

 

 

[PET PEEVE]Normals CAN'T push. A character can ONLY push if he is exceptional, and the circumstances are also exceptional.[/pet peeve]

 

 

 

[PET PEEVE]He CAN'T PUSH! The rule book specifically uses an Olympic weightlifter in gold medal contention as an example of a situation where a character CANNOT PUSH his STR. The same would apply to an Olympic class runner. [/pet peeve]

 

 

 

Well, whatever the rulebook example might say, I consider an olympic level athelete to be 'exceptional'. At least as exceptional as Bob the Generic Mercenary (who happens to be a PC).

 

Still, even if we ignore the possibility of pushing :

 

Bob the Generic Mercenary buys SPD 4 because it is so combat effective and 1 extra inch of running so he can get 4" half moves. Now Bob runs at 28" per phase, or 21 MPH, just shy of the ~23 MPH that is what an olympic sprinter runs at. So a character who isnt even trying to be a world class sprinter is very near to being one just because he is speed 4.

 

On the other hand, if normal movement (running) is bought in inches per turn and the NCM is 20" with the absolute maxima being half again that (30") then an olympic sprinter ends up with 30" of movement per turn (22.5 MPH) and any additional fleetness of foot becomes a function of other factors, be they pushing (yes, yes, I know non-exceptional (non PC) 'normals' arent allowed to push except in life or death heroic circumstances) or is added as the result of a 'PS Sprinter' skill roll used to differentiate between otherwise statistically identical sprinters. Someone doesnt become world class as a side effect of other desires this way.

[Sean Waters]

Re: movement

 

Buying movement per turn rather than per phase makes an awful lot of sense, but will be unpopular:

 

Sense

 

You get what you pay for - you buy 60" of movement per turn, it costs you 120 points. You buy 30", it costs you 60. The cost is proportional to the actual move, irrespective of speed!

 

You calculate move through and move by damage on a fraction of move per turn. I'd suggest dividing by 4, and basing it on that, but it is a matter for you. Again you pay for what you get.

 

You base your move per phase on MPT (move per turn)/SPD (obviously)

 

You'll probably want to reduce the cost of movement powers. Half should do.

 

MPT will be less extreme than at present, which is good for tabletop games.

 

Nonsense

 

Dive for cover becomes harder for high SPD characters

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: movement

 

sry ousider i didn't do the math myself

[Kenn]

Re: movement

 

I avoid the whole movement issue by buying the appropriate Life Support.

 

Do not eat or excrete.

 

[Fireball]

Re: movement

 

you actually didn't factor non-combat running' date=' which would make a running of 10", be 20" which doubles the whole equation to 60MPH, which seems a tad fast for a human even at all the caps for movement.[/quote']

 

Did you take into consideration they might have had a can of Jolt?

[feralucce]

Re: movement

 

Hey Th1a...can I get a copy of that spreadsheet?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: movement

 

Well' date=' whatever the rulebook example might say, I consider an olympic level athelete to be 'exceptional'. At least as exceptional as Bob the Generic Mercenary (who happens to be a PC).[/quote']

 

The rulebook indicates that, even if this olympic level athlete is an exceptional PC, an Olympic event is not a circumstance where pushing would generally be allowed. At least in my games, you don't get to enhance your abilities at will simply by having a high Ego and a high END. Pushing, as the rulebook says, is restricted to exceptional circumstances, not just exceptional characters.

 

You want to Push at will? Buy extra abilities, 11x END, Requires a Skill roll (Ego roll).

 

Bob the Generic Mercenary buys SPD 4 because it is so combat effective and 1 extra inch of running so he can get 4" half moves. Now Bob runs at 28" per phase, or 21 MPH, just shy of the ~23 MPH that is what an olympic sprinter runs at. So a character who isnt even trying to be a world class sprinter is very near to being one just because he is speed 4.

 

On the other hand, if normal movement (running) is bought in inches per turn and the NCM is 20" with the absolute maxima being half again that (30") then an olympic sprinter ends up with 30" of movement per turn (22.5 MPH) and any additional fleetness of foot becomes a function of other factors, be they pushing (yes, yes, I know non-exceptional (non PC) 'normals' arent allowed to push except in life or death heroic circumstances) or is added as the result of a 'PS Sprinter' skill roll used to differentiate between otherwise statistically identical sprinters. Someone doesnt become world class as a side effect of other desires this way.

 

To me, the unreality of the world class sprinter really doesn't bother me that much as it has a minimal, if any, impact on the game as actually played.

 

Now, you can certainly change the rules to inches per turn but, as Sean points out above, that has a ripple effect. To add:

 

- if Gliding is in inches per turn, how often do you lose altitude?

 

- how do you adjudicate fractions? If my 4 SPD character buys 18" total running, does he move 4" per phase or 5" per phase? The rounding rules suggest the latter, but that means a 3" half move for having an 18" run up to a 25" run speed.

 

- how does this impact leaping?

 

- really, shouldn't you then move evenly every segment? Try working THOSE fractions!

 

To Sean's comment that "you get what you pay for", yes and no. Yes, a higher speed means you can run further in a turn. It also means your EB does more damage in a turn. Should we also buy dice per turn, rather than dice per attack, to even this out?