Dr. Anomaly Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Well, we've seen threads about what character in the Champions universe has the highest Strength...but what published character has the highest INT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Re: Who's the Smartest? Originally posted by Dr. Anomaly Well, we've seen threads about what character in the Champions universe has the highest Strength...but what published character has the highest INT? Telios has a 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Y'know, I THOUGHT he had an INT around there (I knew it was more than Dr. D's) but I couldn't remember which book he was in, and since they're not easy to get at right now, I didn't take the time to dig them ALL out. BTW, which book IS he in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Champions Universe, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadeFox Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Steve Long- for having the brains to buy the rights to HERO and making good on the promise of making a great game even better! Nothing but brain-brawn, that one! Of course his stats aren't published yet. Maybe one day we'll see his stats in the NPC rosters for some encounter scene setting.... (Ducks the cries of fanboy and the coconut cream pies) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Technically, relative IQs arent actually determined by INT in the HERO System. Thats why youve got elephants with 8 INT and such like, and "brilliant" scientists in the teens. INT represents effectively your perception and ability to think on your feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I know this is going to sound weird but I think Destroyer is smarter than Teleios. Yes, Teleios' INT skills are all on a 19- and Dr. Destroyer's are on a 16-, but Dr. Destroyer has many, many, many more skills and he has the 4 Overall Levels. This makes all of Dr. Destroyer's INT skills a 20-. Teleios can think quicker but he has nowhere near the vast knowledge that Dr. Destroyer has. Dr. Destroyer is the smartest one there is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith I know this is going to sound weird but I think Destroyer is smarter than Teleios. Yes, Teleios' INT skills are all on a 19- and Dr. Destroyer's are on a 16-, but Dr. Destroyer has many, many, many more skills and he has the 4 Overall Levels. This makes all of Dr. Destroyer's INT skills a 20-. Teleios can think quicker but he has nowhere near the vast knowledge that Dr. Destroyer has. Dr. Destroyer is the smartest one there is! That's a pretty good argument. This one won't get settled very easily. How to measure intelligence is an issue that is highly controversial in the education field. Some argue that individuals have multiple intelligences that may number in the hundreds. That makes for a very difficult model for comparison. Based on what characters have done in their backstory, I would agree with Monolith that Dr. Destroyer is indeed the smartest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Smartest? Originally posted by Gary Telios has a 50. Part of me has to wonder if the smartest guy in the CU isn't whoever left that break through paper behind for Telios to find in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupus Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Re: Smartest? Originally posted by Hermit Part of me has to wonder if the smartest guy in the CU isn't whoever left that break through paper behind for Telios to find in the first place Mmm. Anyone got any theories about what happened there? Been playing Champs since 4th, but I didn't get many of the supplements, so I have no idea what went on with most characters back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Re: Re: Smartest? Originally posted by Lupus Mmm. Anyone got any theories about what happened there? Been playing Champs since 4th, but I didn't get many of the supplements, so I have no idea what went on with most characters back then. Must have been Malachite. After all Teleios is but a pale shadow of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Re: Re: Smartest? Originally posted by Lupus Mmm. Anyone got any theories about what happened there? I think Dr. Destroyer gave him the information via Menton. Teleios makes a good dupe to take some of the heat off of the real power-player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Smartest? Originally posted by Monolith I think Dr. Destroyer gave him the information via Menton. Teleios makes a good dupe to take some of the heat off of the real power-player. Then he must have miscalculated. If I were a megavillain, I certainly wouldn't create a rival who's smarter than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdeath Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Re: Re: Smartest? Originally posted by Lupus Mmm. Anyone got any theories about what happened there? Been playing Champs since 4th, but I didn't get many of the supplements, so I have no idea what went on with most characters back then. Got two... 1) Teleios himself, in the far future, sent it back to himself in this timeline. That's one of the things that brought Captain Chronos back to this time. 2) Ancient Progenitor info filtered through the Empyrians, and then the Lemurians. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Re: Smartest? Originally posted by Gary Then he must have miscalculated. If I were a megavillain, I certainly wouldn't create a rival who's smarter than I am. Yeah, but look at how much easier Teleios is to kill. Heck, even Mr. Matthews from the SAS universe managed to kill him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 A theory Originally posted by Monolith I think Dr. Destroyer gave him the information via Menton. Teleios makes a good dupe to take some of the heat off of the real power-player. Or maybe Menton once free, realized he'd need to create a rival for Dr Destroyer in order to keep his former master off his back. So he steals some of Destroyer's notes related to one of the fields Destroyer often neglects, finds a promising patsy, and then lays the papers before the guinea pig. Success, the scientist recreates himself as Telios. Now, let's look at some odd things to support this theory. 1) Teleios seems to have 'blocked' the memory of getting the notes (Or was a block put there FOR him?) 2) Teleios resents Destroyer (Because Destroyer snubs his branch of science? Seems a bit rushed.. what if the hate was planted there with that as an excuse?) 3) Teleios' raw Int score is higher than Dr. D's. Sounds like it could be achieved by a variation of Mental Transformation is as likely as genetic tampering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Smartest? It occurs to me, that despite these characters massive intellects, they all have psychological limitations that are intense enough to impede their ability to utilize it successfully. In addition, intelligence is a measure of raw processing power, not necessarily ability (though most of these guys have skill rolls high enough to demonstrate extreme ability). Still, if you get so riled up that you don't think in critical situations your ability to apply that intelligence is marginalized. I'd say a character with 10 INT, 20- Skill Rolls (or skill levels), and NO major psychological limitations is actually smarter than any of them. Case in point: Kirk and Khan. Khan was a genetically engineered superman who was "smarter", "faster", "stronger", but he was also so unhinged (20 point psych lim) that he was stupid enough not to use his intellect and allowed his passions to rule him. In other words, despite having a brain the size of a planet he used about as much gray matter as a chimpanzee. He'd have been better off flinging poop. The same is true of Doc Doom. He's smarter than Reed, but his passions cause him to make tactical errors a second lieutenant with a compass wouldn't make. I'd say a character with 10 INT, 20- Skill Rolls (or skill levels), and NO major psychological limitations is actually smarter than any of them. A comparison: Tactician #1: INT 50, Tactics 20-, Psychological Limitation: Arrogant Maniac (Common, Total) Tactician #2: INT 10, Tactics 20- Who do you want leading YOUR army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man A comparison: Tactician #1: INT 50, Tactics 20-, Psychological Limitation: Arrogant Maniac (Common, Total) Tactician #2: INT 10, Tactics 20- Who do you want leading YOUR army? I'd take tactician number 1. He can improvise much better on the fly than number 2 when things go wrong. And he's a lot more likely to be creative and find unorthodox solutions to problems. A lot of great military leaders in history were arrogant maniacs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Originally posted by Gary I'd take tactician number 1. He can improvise much better on the fly than number 2 when things go wrong. And he's a lot more likely to be creative and find unorthodox solutions to problems. Only according to one way of thinking. The skill description seems to imply that it is used for evaluating the other guy's intentions and coming up with a plan on the fly (it even points out strategic planning is its own skill). If we measure points in skill as experience then the more talented tactician with the same skill roll as the less talented one is also the less experienced of the two. Spock (about Khan): "His movements thus far indicate 2 dimensional thinking. He is intelligent, but he lacks experience" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Re: A theory Originally posted by Hermit Or maybe Menton once free, realized he'd need to create a rival for Dr Destroyer in order to keep his former master off his back. So he steals some of Destroyer's notes related to one of the fields Destroyer often neglects, finds a promising patsy, and then lays the papers before the guinea pig. Success, the scientist recreates himself as Telios. Now, let's look at some odd things to support this theory. 1) Teleios seems to have 'blocked' the memory of getting the notes (Or was a block put there FOR him?) 2) Teleios resents Destroyer (Because Destroyer snubs his branch of science? Seems a bit rushed.. what if the hate was planted there with that as an excuse?) 3) Teleios' raw Int score is higher than Dr. D's. Sounds like it could be achieved by a variation of Mental Transformation is as likely as genetic tampering. "Curses, Hermit youve detected my master plot AGAIN." --Menton. Actually, thats a very plausible theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man Only according to one way of thinking. The skill description seems to imply that it is used for evaluating the other guy's intentions and coming up with a plan on the fly (it even points out strategic planning is its own skill). If we measure points in skill as experience then the more talented tactician with the same skill roll as the less talented one is also the less experienced of the two. Spock (about Khan): "His movements thus far indicate 2 dimensional thinking. He is intelligent, but he lacks experience" Yeah, but intelligence is described as raw processing power and speed of thought. The 50 int can think on the fly a lot better and faster than the 10 int who is slow and methodical. The 10 int will be fine as long as things follow plan and he's not surprised. If he's surprised, it'll take him time (that he may not have) to make up a new plan. Mr. 50 int can roll with the blows and come up with a new plan instantly. The experience thing works both ways. If 10 int runs into something he hasn't experienced before, he'll have a lot more problems adapting to it. 50 int can adapt to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupus Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Re: Re: A theory Originally posted by Killer Shrike Actually, thats a very plausible theory. Yep, Menton sounds like the likely suspect to me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Scrivner Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 No, no, no. It's applied intelligence that matters. The smartest character in CU is ... Dr. Silverback! He was wise enough not to have become a villain just because he's stuck in an ape's body. And he has his priorities right. He lets ego-driven do-gooders such as Defender confront Mechanon and get the snot beaten out of them while he works a cushy research job and surrounds himself with lovely young assistants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Originally posted by Gary The experience thing works both ways. If 10 int runs into something he hasn't experienced before, he'll have a lot more problems adapting to it. 50 int can adapt to anything. There's only one problem you keep overlooking. That huge psych lim. Even a second lewey with a compass and an 8 INT would opt for the fool proof tactic. Goad him into doing something stupid. I measure intelligence in success. Doom, Luthor, all the big villian geniousess... they let their emotions and ego lead them into NOT applying their intelligence. Not so smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man There's only one problem you keep overlooking. That huge psych lim. Even a second lewey with a compass and an 8 INT would opt for the fool proof tactic. Goad him into doing something stupid. I measure intelligence in success. Doom, Luthor, all the big villian geniousess... they let their emotions and ego lead them into NOT applying their intelligence. Not so smart. Doom, Luthor, etc are comic book characters and their opponents have script immunity. I can easily say that a 50 int with a 20- tactics roll would expect the other person to goad him, and would incorporate it into his plans and set up a trap. If facing a 10 int tactician, he would constantly throw out surprises and change plans on the fly, thus forcing 10 int to do the same thing. And if both sides had to change their plans on the fly, 50 int wins easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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