Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

[Shadowsoul]

Hi. I'm starting up a campaign in a setting that draws on a blend of Early Modern European history rather than the medieval and classical sources that fuel 'standard' fantasy. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this topic?

More specifically does anyone know about Renaissance magic or have any ideas about how to stat it up. I'm thinking of a fairly ritual heavy system which requires quite a bit of research and preparation and much reliance on the proper celestial influences. (After all you can't curse someone to have indigestion unless you know the state of their humours). Combat applicable magic would mostly consist of useful amulets providing e.g. combat luck, with a healthy dose of 'summons' such as angelic, ghostly or demonic spirits and alternative schools in the form of witchcraft and shamanism.

I'd also like to thank Spence and Captain Obvious for the rules sets on black powder weapons they've posted, its only fair because I'm going to steal from both sets.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

Hi. I'm starting up a campaign in a setting that draws on a blend of Early Modern European history rather than the medieval and classical sources that fuel 'standard' fantasy. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this topic?

More specifically does anyone know about Renaissance magic or have any ideas about how to stat it up. I'm thinking of a fairly ritual heavy system which requires quite a bit of research and preparation and much reliance on the proper celestial influences. (After all you can't curse someone to have indigestion unless you know the state of their humours). Combat applicable magic would mostly consist of useful amulets providing e.g. combat luck, with a healthy dose of 'summons' such as angelic, ghostly or demonic spirits and alternative schools in the form of witchcraft and shamanism.

I'd also like to thank Spence and Captain Obvious for the rules sets on black powder weapons they've posted, its only fair because I'm going to steal from both sets.

 

Have you read Shadow of the Lion (Mercedes Lackey, Eric Flint, & Dave Freer)? It's a fantasy set in 16th century Venice (there is also a sequel and a spin-off book; the spin-off is by Dave Freer alone and set in Scandinavia).

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

There's a thread around here somewhere about "real" magic that has several links to actual treatises on magic. Mostly from the Renaissance, but I believe there are a few from other time periods as well.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

Renaissance is when you start getting into the scientific method and mathematics. I imagine then magic spells would start to look something like mathematical equation that you would have to delicately balance else the spell wouldn't work properly. Which makes me think of magic squares.

 

This is my take at a mathematical spell to protect one's house, it seeks a peaceful balance between angelic, demonic and ghostly forces by requiring them to respect the man of the house or to seek comfort elsewhere. If the charm is not properly constructed then the forces are thrown into chaos and the house will become a bad luck nexus until the conflict is resolved. The spell lasts until something seriously disrupt the balance (3 or more sixes rolled on the dice or 3 or more ones rolled on the dice) or 108 days, whichever comes first.

 

4D6 Luck, Area effect, x4 Area (50 Active Points), OIF: Magic Square of Protection (-1/2), Immobile (-1), Requires a Resnaissance Magic Roll (-1/2), Side Effect: Same but Unluck (-1), Extra Time: 1 Day of Research (-4), (6 Real Points)

[Lucius]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

Astrology, and related horlogical systems classifying the days and hours, was often considered important.

 

Some spells would have a Window of Opportunity: only within three nights of the full moon, or only on the fifth hour of the day of Mars (i.e. at five in the morning on Tuesday)

 

Or you could give "situational modifiers" based on the timing or on the positions of the planets.

 

Or something like this:

Succour magic linked to + X to magic skill rolls

requires skill roll: Astrology

Side Effects: Drain, negative levels, or just plain Bad Luck

conditional power: only works if the mage has some leeway in choosing the time of the operation, exact bonus may be adjusted based on how much time.

 

So if I can choose exactly when to try an experiment, I may get a big bonus; if I'm on a deadline, or the available times are somehow restricted (as by a busy schedule) the odds become poorer (i.e. fewer times I can choose to cast the spell, means lesser chance that one of those times will be idea.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Sator Arepo Tenet Opera Rotas!

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

Have you read Shadow of the Lion (Mercedes Lackey' date=' Eric Flint, & Dave Freer)? It's a fantasy set in 16th century Venice (there is also a sequel and a spin-off book; the spin-off is by Dave Freer alone and set in Scandinavia).[/quote']

 

I haven't read it although I have come across other fantasies that use Renaissance magic. Thanks, I'll look into this.

And thanks to everyone else for their input aswell. I've got some more food for thought now and I like the idea of mages being limited by the movements of celestial forces.

A lot of spells or rituals should also require specific components that can only work when under the influence of the corresponding celestial force. E.g. a fire ritual using gold as a focus might have to be done under the sun. I'll try not to impose too many difficulties however; since I don't want to put players off magic altogether.

Did I mention that Alchemy is a key magic for this sort of setting? And for once characters do get to play around with gunpowder!

[Markdoc]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

A couple of things that might be useful:

 

My "magical systems" stuff is here:

http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Grimoire/the_ultimate_grimoire.htm

 

and off that page, is a quasi-medieval/renaissance magic system inspired by books like "The Dragon Waiting" and medieval superstition.

http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Grimoire/magic_systems.htm#Medieval%20Magic

 

The idea is to make magic difficult and very, very, dangerous to cast and totally unsuitable for casting in combat. However, in such a setting magic is very powerful because mages are rare, so players are not going to face magic or countermagic very often. The idea was to design a magic system that could plausibly (not realistically, but plausibly) exist in a world similar to our own medieval past.

 

I'm using a variant of this system in my current game, where I want swordswingers to dominate combat, but Magic to still play an important role, and so far, a year or so in, that seems to be working pretty well.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

I can't say I had a system, but when I ran an early modern FH campaign, I had a pretty good player running a Finnish shaman and some psionic NPCs. Leaving out the largescale telekinesis, mental powers start to be recognisable in early modern concepts of magic. (Not the way I did it, but you live and you learn...) Most contemporary magicians were obsessed with learning the secrets of the universe more than they were with calling down lightning bolts on their enemies.

And really, that makes sense. What could possibly be more powerful than knowing next week's weather in an agricultural society?

[Markdoc]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

And really' date=' that makes sense. What could possibly be more powerful than knowing next week's weather in an agricultural society?[/quote']

 

Being able to cast a lightning bolt and take food from other people when the harvest was poor.

 

The reason primitive magicians concentrated on things like curses and foreknowledge is that you can't see them working. When you predict the weather, basic experience gives you a decent chance of being right - especially if you are a little vague. Likewise, pretty much any misfortune can be attributed to a curse and people remember the occaisonal success far more than the routine failure (see for example, modern telephone "psychics"). But if you claim you can cast lightning bolts, at some point you're going to need to actually do it - and then you're stiffed.

 

Of course, this doesn't apply to fantasy mages who naturally gravitate to flashier magics unless reined in by the GM (if of course, the GM wishes to rein them in ).

 

cheers, Mark

[Comic]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

The Discoverie of Witchcraft by Reginald Scot.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

A couple of things that might be useful:

 

My "magical systems" stuff is here:

http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Grimoire/the_ultimate_grimoire.htm

 

and off that page, is a quasi-medieval/renaissance magic system inspired by books like "The Dragon Waiting" and medieval superstition.

http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Grimoire/magic_systems.htm#Medieval%20Magic

 

The idea is to make magic difficult and very, very, dangerous to cast and totally unsuitable for casting in combat. However, in such a setting magic is very powerful because mages are rare, so players are not going to face magic or countermagic very often. The idea was to design a magic system that could plausibly (not realistically, but plausibly) exist in a world similar to our own medieval past.

 

I'm using a variant of this system in my current game, where I want swordswingers to dominate combat, but Magic to still play an important role, and so far, a year or so in, that seems to be working pretty well.

 

cheers, Mark

You might want to go over your site and check for dead links.

 

Some of your content is no longer available (like the Word doc version of the Grimoire)

 

TB

[Markdoc]

Re: Thoughts on Early Modern Magic

 

You might want to go over your site and check for dead links.

 

Some of your content is no longer available (like the Word doc version of the Grimoire)

 

TB

 

Yeah, good point. It's actually something I've been meaning to do for ages - but have been putting off. The whole site needs an updating really, but I have been concentrating on the site for my FH game. I almost dread running Big Brother over it for fear of how many dead links I'll turn up

 

Cheers, Mark