Magicians without magic

[Plex]

In the campaign I am working on, the mystic character wants to be a person like Chris Angel, David Blaine, etc... in his secret id. What I started thinking about is what would these people do in a world where super powers and magic really existed? Would they even exist? (I am assuming that they would not have mystical/metahuman abilities for the sake of the idea.) My feeling is that they would be performing the tricks with the tag of no metapowers/mystical forces used, or something similar. (Having monitors/detectors set up to detect the use of metapowers and/or magic. Say some good old IHA tech adapted for this use) Or would they just be poor performers on some side show for a circus? Has anyone else thought along this?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

IMO in a world where it's widely known and well-documented that certain individuals can actually teleport or transmute matter, I doubt any skill-and-prop based stage magician would be the major entertainment draw that some are in the real world. However, I would expect practitioners of classic illusionism, sleight of hand and the like to still practice their craft and draw the attention of a smaller but more discerning group of fans. Not unlike how live theater evolved after film and then television developed.

 

Now if superpowers or real magic of that nature were not common knowledge, the public perception would still consider them clever tricks. A number of pulp or comic magicians have used the guise of stage illusionist as a cover for their real magic, and an excuse to travel the world battling supernatural e-vil.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

Depends on how common powers/magic are and how often people see them in action.

 

Mostly I think the stage magicians would still exist, but would probably just concentrate on different tricks. If Bob at the corner store can levitate stuff, not that impressive and the various levitation tricks will go out the window.

 

Some may embrace the 'super' culture and create more elaborate stage personas/costumes. No David Blaine - it's the Black Phantom!

 

Ultimately, people want to buy in, and it's about illusion and misdirection. They'll still be able to do shows.

[OddHat]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

I've usually run on the idea that Stage Magicians and Illusionists in a Supers world are a bit more popular than they are in the real world. After all, even if there are a dozen heroes and villains in your city, how often do you get a chance to see them up close in action? Sure, there's the TV news, but most Super fights are over before the cameras can get there; footage is mainly Mega Man saying he has no comment and pictures of smashed buildings. In a stage performance, you can get up close and see the artists working. The public knows that magic is real (even if the egg heads call it Quantom or some other gobledygook), and that it sometimes rubs off; of course they want to see it.

 

The performers, even more than real world performers, generally pretend to have real mystic powers. A few actually do. It adds to the mystique, and increases the chances that some cute or loaded mark in the audience will come around to the dressing room after the show and ask for special instruction. A few rebels, Penn and Teller style, make a big point of not using magic. Only fringe loonies actually believe that Supers are a media conspiracy, but then you find fringe loonies who believe anything.

 

Oh, and pro athletes in a world where men can run 1000 mph? They get paid about 1/4 or less what their real world counterparts make. Many people would rather root for, follow and bet on the local superteam than the local football team, and it cuts into the audience.

[Plex]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

For my campaign, metapowers and magical abilities are pretty widely known about. You'd have to go pretty far to find someone that didn't know they existed. (I'm using the Champions Universe.) I'd probably have something set up where the use of high "super" tech couldn't be used also in the performance of the illusions/tricks/etc... (but would have to be careful of that since tech is used for the illusion.)

 

I can see a whole issue coming around between the metas and the normals in which jobs are being lost, or not as paying as well, as in the case of the pro athletes example above.

 

I didn't think about the live theater aspect, good analogy. This is why I always come here to post my questions. Always get a better/alternate perspective.

[Clonus]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

In the campaign I am working on' date=' the mystic character wants to be a person like Chris Angel, David Blaine, etc... in his secret id. What I started thinking about is what would these people do in a world where super powers and magic really existed? Would they even exist? (I am assuming that they would not have mystical/metahuman abilities for the sake of the idea.) My feeling is that they would be performing the tricks with the tag of no metapowers/mystical forces used, or something similar. [/quote']

 

Why bother? After all most people would pay to watch a demonstration of real super-powers anyway. Somewhere around here there's a defunct thread where my previous incarnation described an alternate Doctor Fate whose gimmick was that he pretended to have real powers in a nightclub act really but just had gimmicks and tricks (and the Fates as a Contact).

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

Personally, I tend to think that they'd still maintain an audience... indeed, the fact that it *might* be real might serve as a more effective draw even.

 

Sure, you can turn on the news and watch Mighty Man flying around, but odds are he's not selling tickets to see it in person... and the fact that he only does it when folks are trying to level the city puts a crimp on things.

 

As for performing with evidence that powers aren't in use... also highly effective, I'd think.

 

Some people might say "hah! So what, superheroes do that all the time!" But I think more people - knowing that it *can* be done with superpowers, would be fascinated by somebody who claims - and can prove - that they're not using them.

 

If nothing else, he'd probably have every IHA twit in town buying tickets wanting to catch the mutie revealing himself in public so they can off him. ;P

[Plex]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

What I am thinking about doing for this character is that he had to learn how to do all these tricks/illusions/prestidigitation acts without the aid of any spell or other power before his training to become a Mystic Master began. Not wanting to let all that time spent learning and practicing these tricks go to waste, he decided to take it on the road. It seems a good reason to have him traveling about. His shtick would be to have all the detection equipment up to prove that he wasn't using any type of powers. (Of course, it could get really interesting if something goes wrong with a trick and he is forced to use his magic to avoid being seriously injured or killed. Not only would it blow his rep as a magician, but reveal the fact that he really was a mystical master. Not to mention the fact that it could seriously blow his secret id, if he takes one.) Kind of like hiding in plain sight.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

You could also take the approach that all the stage magician stuff IS real magic, of a sort many can learn. Many mystical apprentices are begun on that sort of thing, and gradually move up to more arcane stuff.

[Great Beyond]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

Actually, Great Beyond's dad was a stage magician in Vegas, and since GB learned a thing or two helping with the act, followed in his footsteps. Sure she's got powers (well, the skills to tap magical forces), but she takes great personal pride in being able to pull a rabbit out of a hat without "cheating". It's a matter of professional honor with her.

 

And at the very least, the audiance will always be there. She spends loads of time at hospitals and children's centers, playing to the crowd that'll always be wowed by the slight of hand - the kids.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

Oh' date=' and pro athletes in a world where men can run 1000 mph? They get paid about 1/4 or less what their real world counterparts make. Many people would rather root for, follow and bet on the local superteam than the local football team, and it cuts into the audience.[/quote']

 

I'm not so sure about that. Many people watch sports for the sport and the escapism. The local superhero team is too real -- it's news like war and politics. And as for betting, superteams make for lousy betting -- you don't know when a super battles are going to occur and bookmakers lack the proper information to set decent information. After all, even if a bookmaker knows that Villainy International is going to attack the Local Heroes at the stadium on Sunday afternoon, do they know whcih memers of VI (a very large group) are going to show up? Or if either the heroes or villains are currently nursing injuries??

[vagrant winds]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

Slightly off-tangent to the OP, but there's always subtle magic vs. overt magic.

 

The subtle "stage" magicians could have a few magical overall skill levels and be a magician without being a "Magician".

[Clonus]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

I'm not so sure about that. Many people watch sports for the sport and the escapism.

 

However superheroes might really eat into the athlete product endorsement market.

[OddHat]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

I'm not so sure about that. Many people watch sports for the sport and the escapism.

 

Sure, and they'd keep doing so. On the other hand, there's even better quality escapism to be had by watching clips of Incredible Man or Amazing Woman, imagining it's you pounding Doctor Kill'em and saving bus-loads of schoolgirls and nuns.

 

Also, I'd expect at least a few Super Sports if the Supers population was high enough.

 

The local superhero team is too real -- it's news like war and politics.

 

I disagree here. People are endlessly fascinated by War and Politics. For evidence, I give you the Internet.

 

Add in some Super's costumes and the battles are also like Porn.

 

And as for betting, superteams make for lousy betting -- you don't know when a super battles are going to occur and bookmakers lack the proper information to set decent information. After all, even if a bookmaker knows that Villainy International is going to attack the Local Heroes at the stadium on Sunday afternoon, do they know whcih memers of VI (a very large group) are going to show up? Or if either the heroes or villains are currently nursing injuries??

 

Maybe. This is a case where I go from "I'd like bookies to take bets on Super Battles in this setting, because it suits my sense of humor" and then go backwards and say "They figure out ways to make it work", just like the other bits I want in my campaign world that don't exist in the real one. If another GM says "There's no way that could work in my campaign", fair enough.

[OddHat]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

However superheroes might really eat into the athlete product endorsement market.

 

Sure. Let Mystery Men lead the way.

[vagrant winds]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

Sure. Let Mystery Men lead the way.

 

And they won't have the old Spiderman problem of being unable to cash a check under their superhero ID?

[OddHat]

Re: Magicians without magic

 

And they won't have the old Spiderman problem of being unable to cash a check under their superhero ID?

 

Depends on the campaign. In mine, Supers apply for a Fictitious Name License, just like small businesses. Only the government needs to know that Frank Butterman is the Amazing Captain Excitement; as far as the bank is concerned, Amazing Captain Excitement is his name. If you choose not to get a Fictitious Name License, no endorsement contracts for you.