Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

[Dormyn]

Hey. I just got done having a discussion with my friends about whether or not Alucard from the anime/manga Hellsing would be able to beat Superman or Lobo in terms of Hero System power, points, and stats. I say Alucard would win. Not easily, but would win in the long run. What do you guys think?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Alucard would probably beat Superman, because i believe he is weak to magic, I think with Lobo it would probably be a standstill

[Clovis]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

I would like to see the stats on all of them. By not seeing what they look at I would think that Superman would give a really good fight, but I don't think Lobo would win. I think all of them are stand stills. I'm guessing it's battle to the death? If so, most Alucard magic wont result in death, just things short of it.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Which version of Superman

 

Depends on the setting of the fight. Take a wide open desert scape, and heat vision him from orbit, or take the fight to the surface of the sun, Superman wins.

 

Urban settings, where Supes has to worry about reigning himself in, due to innocents around, perhaps Alucard.

 

Lobo would thrash him.

[Dormyn]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Which version of Superman

 

Depends on the setting of the fight. Take a wide open desert scape, and heat vision him from orbit, or take the fight to the surface of the sun, Superman wins.

 

Urban settings, where Supes has to worry about reigning himself in, due to innocents around, perhaps Alucard.

 

Lobo would thrash him.

 

Meh. One of the points I brought up was that Alucard could hypnotize Superman. (List of Alucard's powers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alucard_%28Hellsing%29) I say that since superman is described as a "boyscout" of sorts, his EGO value would not be that high. Alucard can hypnotize people. I say that if he can hypnotize superman, he could then absorb his soul *major transform* (refer to link of alucard's powers). That would make superman basically a walking vegetable. Lobo, on the other hand, has MASSIVE EGO. So hypnotizing him would be way harder. In a brawling match, superman and lobo would beat the crap out of alucard. However, if alucard uses his powers, i think that he would be able to beat both of them. (his ability to absorb souls being his trump card). Plus. It would have to be an arena where it's far for both parties. On the sun? Oh yeah, that'll work~ That's equivalent of fighting on a plate of kryptonite. im talking about an open area with no one else around.

[Dormyn]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Which version of Superman

 

Depends on the setting of the fight. Take a wide open desert scape, and heat vision him from orbit, or take the fight to the surface of the sun, Superman wins.

 

Urban settings, where Supes has to worry about reigning himself in, due to innocents around, perhaps Alucard.

 

Lobo would thrash him.

 

Meh. One of the points I brought up was that Alucard could hypnotize Superman. (List of Alucard's powers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alucard_%28Hellsing%29) I say that since superman is described as a "boyscout" of sorts, his EGO value would not be that high. Alucard can hypnotize people. I say that if he can hypnotize superman, he could then absorb his soul *major transform* (refer to link of alucard's powers). That would make superman basically a walking vegetable. Lobo, on the other hand, has MASSIVE EGO. So hypnotizing him would be way harder. In a brawling match, superman and lobo would beat the crap out of alucard. However, if alucard uses his powers, i think that he would be able to beat both of them. (his ability to absorb souls being his trump card). Plus. It would have to be an arena where it's far for both parties. On the sun? Oh yeah, that'll work~ That's equivalent of fighting on a plate of kryptonite. im talking about an open area with no one else around.

[braincraft]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

I figure with Lobo, they're at a standstill, since neither can really hurt the other permanently. Probably. We still don't know for sure the limits of Alucard's powers.

 

Superman is a tossup since he has so many inconsistent powers and weaknesses. Probably a win for him, since he's the protagonist.

[Dormyn]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Meh. One of the points I brought up was that Alucard could hypnotize Superman. (List of Alucard's powers: search Alucard (Hellsing) on Wikipedia. Won't let me do links~) I say that since superman is described as a "boyscout" of sorts, his EGO value would not be that high. Alucard can hypnotize people. I say that if he can hypnotize superman, he could then absorb his soul *major transform* (refer to wikipedia for list of alucard's powers). That would make superman basically a walking vegetable. Lobo, on the other hand, has MASSIVE EGO. So hypnotizing him would be way harder. In a brawling match, superman and lobo would beat the crap out of alucard. However, if alucard uses his powers, i think that he would be able to beat both of them. (his ability to absorb souls being his trump card). Plus. It would have to be an arena where it's far for both parties. On the sun? Oh yeah, that'll work~ That's equivalent of fighting on a plate of kryptonite. im talking about an open area with no one else around.

[Spidey88]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

I say that since superman is described as a "boyscout" of sorts, his EGO value would not be that high.

 

EGO (the characteristic) is not a measure of one's sense of self-importance and superiority. If it was, then yes - Lobo would have a huge advantage in that regard.

 

EGO is a measure of willpower, self-discipline, and "mental fortitude" - all of which Superman has in spades, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

 

An interesting fight, though. Vampire versus an essentially solar-powered hero. I think the time of day would be a huge factor in this battle!

[Dormyn]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

EGO (the characteristic) is not a measure of one's sense of self-importance and superiority. If it was, then yes - Lobo would have a huge advantage in that regard.

EGO is a measure of willpower, self-discipline, and "mental fortitude" - all of which Superman has in spades, I'm afraid.

 

An interesting fight, though. Vampire versus an essentially solar-powered hero. I think the time of day would be a huge factor in this battle!

Ok. My bad on not explaining that statement. I know that EGO isn't actually a measure of ego, but more like mental defense. My argument is that someone who is a good guy ("boy scout") and worries about the well-being of people other than himself in a fight, that would lower his EGO value. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be high. I'm just saying in comparison to lobo or other bad guys, I think they would have a higher EGO value.

 

Plus, Alucard isn't affected by daylight. Or most of the things vampires are weak to. Blessed objects seem to be his only weakness.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

This thread should be moved, methinks.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Well, if you want to compare them statwise, here are IMO the most recent, complete and well-researched Fifth Edition HERO write-ups available for Superman and Arucard (yes, it's actually pronounced that way in the anime due to Japanese difficulties with the sound "L"). I'm afraid I don't have stats for Lobo handy.

 

Arucard

 

Superman

[Spidey88]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Ok. My bad on not explaining that statement. I know that EGO isn't actually a measure of ego, but more like mental defense. My argument is that someone who is a good guy ("boy scout") and worries about the well-being of people other than himself in a fight, that would lower his EGO value. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be high. I'm just saying in comparison to lobo or other bad guys, I think they would have a higher EGO value.

 

 

I see what you're saying, but choose to respectfully disagree. To me, a good chunk of EGO is self-control and mental discipline - qualities that Supes has gobs of, and Lobo may have considerably less of (at least the former, anyway).

 

My two cents.

[Kenn]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Superman's EGO is pretty darned high. It's been shown, in the comics, repeatedly, that, minus magic, Superman's not easy to mind control. Not impossible, but Sleez and the post-Crisis Brainiac had difficulty, especially getting him to behave out of character. Also, his willpower has been shown to be comparable to the Green Lanterns' (lower than Hal's, but, in at least one story, higher than Guy's.)

 

Also, some versions of Superman have super hypnotism. Pre-Crisis, he could do mind control. In the late 90s and early 00s he had this Torquasm-Vo skill that made him even harder to mind control.

[JmOz]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Ok. My bad on not explaining that statement. I know that EGO isn't actually a measure of ego, but more like mental defense. My argument is that someone who is a good guy ("boy scout") and worries about the well-being of people other than himself in a fight, that would lower his EGO value. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be high. I'm just saying in comparison to lobo or other bad guys, I think they would have a higher EGO value.

 

Plus, Alucard isn't affected by daylight. Or most of the things vampires are weak to. Blessed objects seem to be his only weakness.

 

dude, that is so 180 from how I look at ego that I am actualy disturbed

 

you seem to be basicaly saying that being a good person means that you are week willed, that to be strong and independent you have to be basicaly a evil individual.

 

In my experience doing what is right is a lot harder than doing what is easy and constantly choosing right over wrong is normaly a matter of willpower, which in hero terms means ego

[JmOz]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Superman's EGO is pretty darned high. It's been shown, in the comics, repeatedly, that, minus magic, Superman's not easy to mind control. Not impossible, but Sleez and the post-Crisis Brainiac had difficulty, especially getting him to behave out of character. Also, his willpower has been shown to be comparable to the Green Lanterns' (lower than Hal's, but, in at least one story, higher than Guy's.)

 

Also, some versions of Superman have super hypnotism. Pre-Crisis, he could do mind control. In the late 90s and early 00s he had this Torquasm-Vo skill that made him even harder to mind control.

 

 

one issue, right before crisis admitingly basicaly said that with proper training Kal-el would be the greatest Green Lantern of all time (it was the trial of the GL who let Krypton go BOOM!!!)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Ok. My bad on not explaining that statement. I know that EGO isn't actually a measure of ego, but more like mental defense. My argument is that someone who is a good guy ("boy scout") and worries about the well-being of people other than himself in a fight, that would lower his EGO value. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be high. I'm just saying in comparison to lobo or other bad guys, I think they would have a higher EGO value.

 

Plus, Alucard isn't affected by daylight. Or most of the things vampires are weak to. Blessed objects seem to be his only weakness.

 

I don't know if this has been pointed out this out yet, but Hypnosis -- even in the HERO system -- requires a lot of things to go right for the hypnotizer. In this case, we encounter two major questions.

 

1) What version of Big Blue are we using?

2) Where, and under what conditions, are we fighting?

 

Ages ago I went rounds with a fellow poster on the argument of NCC-1701D v. ISD; of course, I maintain, from a pure rubber science/listed attribute standpoint, the ISD has no chance against 10m Kilometer Class X phasers & proton torpedoes. The Enterprise doesn't have to close distance to win -- it just has to open fire, lase off the shield generators, and it's game over. He pointed out, however, that there are plenty of circumstances that mitigate these kinds of advantages, and allow the ISD to bring its turbo lasers and fighter compliment to bear.

 

So you want to talk about Hypnosis. Well here's the thing; assuming that Alucard is a villain, and his hypnosis requires Superman to either cease, desist, or aid him, you have a few major problems.

 

First, my man Supes has an INCREDIBLE amount of mental fortitude; it's HARD to pick the righteous path all the time, and he never sways. Even if he doesn't have "mental defense," there's no doubt his EGO score is PLENTY high, considering just how staunch he is. Second, Psych Lims in this case work to Superman's advantage.

 

Because he's chivalrous, because he's devoted to protecting others, and because he's done it pretty much his entire career, any Mind Control has to go against a giant stack of psych lims in order to operate.

 

Finally, I don't consider Superman "vulnerable" to magic; he just doesn't have any DEFENSE against it. there's a great episode of JLA (based on a comic book I believe) where he goes rounds with Billy Batson as Captain Marvel. They're pounding the ever loving dog-**** out of each other and finally Marvel gets his arms around Superman and yells "SHAZAM!" Which brings a bolt of magical lightning down on him.

 

He does this repeatedly. Superman takes damage -- but not "vulnerability" damage -- just damage that his normal invulnerabilities don't account for, but his PD & ED (innate) still applied. Otherwise he'd have gotten completely fried. Magic is great for containing him, and slowing him down, but he still has Fast Healing/a stupid high REC, even after he's taken damage.

 

So while I'm sure it's an interesting comparison, there are very few fights where I won't put hard money on Big Blue. Besides, if Alucard is vulnerable to sunlight, and the argument that Supe's Heat Vision is, in fact, redirected internal sunlight, he's going to have a hard time keeping eye contact.

 

"Hypnosis!"

Kzak.

"The goggles! They do nothing!"

[Dormyn]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Well, if you want to compare them statwise, here are IMO the most recent, complete and well-researched Fifth Edition HERO write-ups available for Superman and Arucard (yes, it's actually pronounced that way in the anime due to Japanese difficulties with the sound "L"). I'm afraid I don't have stats for Lobo handy.

 

Arucard

 

Superman

 

O_o. Well. Holy crap. Looking at those two character sheets, superman would beat the crap out of alucard. I guess I didn't take into consideration that superman is SUPERMAN. I don't superman would be able to kill alucard, but he would just beat the garbage out of him. I thought alucard would have more powers. He just looks watered down in that sheet. maybe that's just me...

[Susano]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

O_o. Well. Holy crap. Looking at those two character sheets' date=' superman would beat the crap out of alucard. I guess I didn't take into consideration that superman is SUPERMAN. I don't superman would be able to kill alucard, but he would just beat the garbage out of him. I thought alucard would have more powers. He just looks watered down in that sheet. maybe that's just me...[/quote']

 

This is an attempt to quantify Arucard based on what is seen in the anime. It also doesn't attempt to define the stuff seen in the last episode or so, since, to be honest, I have no idea what is going on, aside from London goes boom. It also doesn't take into account the manga, which shows a whole slew of new powers, as well as an increased level of power for some of his abilities.

 

Now, let's make no mistake, Arucard is very, very powerful. But he's not in a superhero setting. He can't lift large freighters or punch through tanks. He doesn't have heat vision or a body that ignores starship weapons. You can chew him up if you have a 9mm pistol, provided you pump enough rounds into him.

 

However... Arucard is virtually unkillable. Arucard survives getting his head cut off, he survives being blasted into bloody pulp. He regenerates from damn near everything. The manga version shows this, and explains why. And also shows some of his more freightening powers -- few of which would affect Supes directly.

 

So, IMO, Supers can and would pound Arucard into mush, as would Lobo, but he'd regenerate (eventually) and be able to show up again -- but I don't think he'd be dumb enough to go in for a second round he knew he couldn't win.

 

You want to throw an anime character at Supers (or Lobo) and have an even match? Toss a fully-powered Super Saiyajin Son Goku into the ring.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Alucard as written there is far and away the most bad-@$$ vampire I've ever seen statted for HERO, with a broad array of powers, especially when using his Cromwell Initiative. He's extremely difficult to injure, even for Superman-level attacks, and nearly impossible to kill. Since he's a magical creature by definition, his innate attacks would arguably exploit Superman's well established vulnerability to magic. Considering that I think that Alucard would actually give Supes a fairly nasty fight, and would probably enjoy the challenge.

 

But yeah, in the end we're talking Superman, the guy who's beaten gods, trashed starships, and saved the world countless times. In the end no gothic horror monster, even this updated Dracula, is his equal.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

 

However... Arucard is virtually unkillable. Arucard survives getting his head cut off, he survives being blasted into bloody pulp. He regenerates from damn near everything. The manga version shows this, and explains why. And also shows some of his more freightening powers -- few of which would affect Supes directly.

 

I still say Supes hits him, he starts his regen, and Superman turns on the superspeed and dumps Arucard into the Sun.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

dude, that is so 180 from how I look at ego that I am actualy disturbed

 

you seem to be basicaly saying that being a good person means that you are week willed, that to be strong and independent you have to be basicaly a evil individual.

 

In my experience doing what is right is a lot harder than doing what is easy and constantly choosing right over wrong is normaly a matter of willpower, which in hero terms means ego

 

Seconded.

 

And in an another example - how hard is it to play a "I'm in it for me" kind of D&D character, and how hard is it to play a truly believable paladin.

 

Being Good is just plain tougher than Being Evil.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Considering that Superman has the power to do and take practically anything he might have a whim for, with almost no one being able to stop him, the fact that he invariably does the right thing, whatever the personal cost to himself, speaks of enormous strength of character. How many other people could resist the temptation to get away with what he can?

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Considering that Superman has the power to do and take practically anything he might have a whim for' date=' with almost no one being able to stop him, the fact that he invariably does the right thing, whatever the personal cost to himself, speaks of enormous strength of character. How many other people could resist the temptation to get away with what he can?[/quote']

 

Yeah, a case of power (even Absolute power) not corrupting. Part of the reason I love the character.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Alucard vs. Superman or Lobo

 

Would being in the sun even kill Alucard? He seems to be able to regenerate from damn near anything, and his completly unrestricted powers haven't really been explored.

 

Another question, Alucard has a pair of giant guns, does the hellsing society have access to kryptonite if it existed in their world? My answer would be yes, as it is directly usuable on "freaks of nature" (ie if it existed in london, then they would have it, and alucard would probably shoot it). Superman might just have a problem with that.

 

Also Alucard seems to win sometimes by retartedly large PRE attacks. I have no idea how superman handles these, maybe he just eats them for breakfast, i don't know.

 

And as far as his vunerability to magic, it's a frame of refrence thing. He may doesn't have defenses against it, makes him vunerable relative to other special effects right? (even if he doesn't actually take a vunerability disadvantage).