Would this be simpler?

[rjcurrie]

With the poll on Hero 6.0 going on, I got to thinking about making Power at least look simpler without losing anything and came up with the following. Similar things, I believe, have been mentioned on the boards before but I cannot remember seeing them put together in a clean presentation of the idea.

 

One of the things that scares peope aware from Hero is the fractions, particularly the fact that you have to divide by fractions. While many people recall the technique from their Grade 4 or 5 math classes, for others, it falls into that large group of things they once learned but have now forgotten.

 

Step One of this method is to present Limitations and Advantages as whole numbers, by multiplying them by four. That is, +1/4, +1/2, +3/4, +1, +1 1/2, and +2 Advanatages would become +1, +2, +3, +4, +6, and +8 Advanatages, respectively. Similarly, -1/4, -1/2, -3/4, -1, -1 1/2, and -2 Limitations would become -1, -2, -3, -4, -6, and -8 Limitations.

 

Step Two is to present the formulae for calculating costs as:

 

Active Cost = Base Cost x (4 + Advantages) / 4

 

Real Cost = Active Cost x 4 / (4 + Limitations)

 

These mathematical equivalent to the current formulae.

 

Now, let's look at the effect on the math.

 

Consider a 10d6 Energy Blast with the following Advantages:

 

Area Effect (Radius)

Indirect (Same Origin, Always Fires Aways)

Invisible Power Effects (Sight Group)

 

and the following Limitations:

 

Only in Hero ID

Activation 14-

 

Currently, this is calculated as:

 

Active Cost = 50 x (1 + 1 + 1/4 + 1/2)

= 50 x 2 3/4

= 50 x 11/4

= 550 / 4

= 137

 

Real Cost = 137 / (1 + 1/4 + 1/2)

= 137 / (1 3/4)

= 137 / (7/4)

= 137 x (4/7)

= 548 / 7

= 78

 

With the new formula, this would be:

 

Active Cost = 50 x (4 + 4 + 1 + 2) / 4

= 50 x 11 / 4

= 550 / 4

= 137

 

Real Cost = 137 x 4 / (4 +1 + 2)

= 137 x 4 / 7

= 548 / 7

= 78

 

 

Do you think people would find this simpler? It's hard for me to tell because I've always been good at the kind of math Hero requires.

 

One negative of this is that the formulae are less intuitive.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

An interesting idea, Rod. Personally it looks scarier, but then I'm so used to the fractions that i can do them in my head now, and use Hero advantages and limitations to convert currency when I'm on holiday

 

However, I know that a lot of people see fractions and freeze like a rabbit int he headlights, so this is an idea well worth considering. Nice job!

[Susano]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

I've never had a issue with the fractions. I simply converted them to decimals (i.e. +1/2 becomes +.5 while - 1/4 becomes -.25). With Hero Designer, things have become even simpler.

[MitchellS]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

I personally think it's just easier to restructure the price of the powers and the various advantages and limitations. Instead of making them cost multipliers make them adders and hide the math: Half-End can cost 10 points and Zero-End can cost 20, etc. Yes, it'll change the cost structure of the game but it's an easy thing to adjust starting point totals to adjust for that, IMO.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

I personally think it's just easier to restructure the price of the powers and the various advantages and limitations. Instead of making them cost multipliers make them adders and hide the math: Half-End can cost 10 points and Zero-End can cost 20' date=' etc. Yes, it'll change the cost structure of the game but it's an easy thing to adjust starting point totals to adjust for that, IMO.[/quote']

 

Ah the Fuzion solution.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

I personally think it's just easier to restructure the price of the powers and the various advantages and limitations. Instead of making them cost multipliers make them adders and hide the math: Half-End can cost 10 points and Zero-End can cost 20' date=' etc. Yes, it'll change the cost structure of the game but it's an easy thing to adjust starting point totals to adjust for that, IMO.[/quote']

 

 

So should it cost the same to make a 20d6 attack Armor-Piercing as it does to make a 10d6 attack Armor-Piercing?

[mattingly]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

Maybe so, if it costs the same to make 20 DEF Hardened as it does 40 DEF Hardened.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

Just express then as decimals and I'm cool.`

[Sean Waters]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

...and I was going to suggest we ought to ditch adders. Can't please everyone all of the time...

[David Blue]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

I personally think it's just easier to restructure the price of the powers and the various advantages and limitations. Instead of making them cost multipliers make them adders and hide the math: Half-End can cost 10 points and Zero-End can cost 20' date=' etc. Yes, it'll change the cost structure of the game but it's an easy thing to adjust starting point totals to adjust for that, IMO.[/quote']

That might work for advantages, but with limitations you'll soon have to impose a minimum cost of 1pt per power or something like that, or else carefully defined powers will be worth free points.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

So would STR cost 4 or 8 points under this scheme?

[Knightmare]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

So should it cost the same to make a 20d6 attack Armor-Piercing as it does to make a 10d6 attack Armor-Piercing?

 

Rather than add / subtract the adv / lim cost to the total cost of the power add it to the cost per level or per die. Taking the easiest case Energy Blast is 5 points per die.

 

Define the +1 adv as adding 4 points per die +1/2 adding 2 points per die.

 

Limitations would be -1 = subtracting 4 points per die of advantages, -1/2 would remove 2 points of adv.

 

Limitations would be worth half as much when reducing the base cost of the power.

 

So an EB with 1/2 end cost would be 7 points per die. Put this in a focus it would subtract the 2 points of Red END then be cut in half and subtracted from the base cost of 5 per die for a total of 4 per die.

 

There probably have to be a lower limit to avoid free powers.

 

This is off the top of my head so it may be too fiddly but follows the active points of the power better than a straight adder.

[Maethalion]

Re: Would this be simpler?

 

Personally, I'd love to see the even/odd point structure of the base 5pt/DC change.

 

If it was changed to a power of 2 (ie 4, 8, 16, 32) Then all of the fractional math would be a lot easier to compute.

 

Or even 10pt/DC.