Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

[Kdansky]

I have now read through the rules parts of Ultimate Martial Artist (and skipped most of the example styles, in my opinion, that was (to an extent) a waste of space due to being hugely repetitive). I am quite a bit confused about how damage things stack, namely STR, KA (or HA), Martial DC, CVs (allocated for damage) and maneuvers. I will make a couple examples, someone tell me if I get it right. Assume Super rules, not heroic.

Offensive Strike: +4 DC, Haymaker: +4d6 (normal), MDC: Martial Damage Class (4 cp)

 

STR 10: Haymaker 6d6, Offensive Strike 4d6 (cannot go to more than double STR?)

 

STR 20: Haymaker 8d6, Offensive Strike 8d6

 

STR 30: Haymaker 10d6, Offensive Strike 10d6

 

STR 10, 2x MDC, Offensive Strike: 8d6 (MDC counts as base damage)

 

 

Now let's continue with HKAs... These greatly confuse me. Assume first I'm using a Killing Martial Maneuver, effectively converting my attack from normal to killing. The character is always assumed to have 20 strength (but changing maneuvers and MDCs). I will never mention dice, always DC. Converting in the end is a lot easier than calculating in third-dice all the time.

 

Killing Blow 1: 1 KDC (Killing DCC). Since it is already a maneuver, it cannot be haymakered (I know that's not a word, sorry Thia). With use of 5 strength, we cap out at 2 DC Killing. (1 END)

 

Killing Blow 2: 2 KDC. Similar, we cap out with 10 STR at 4 KDC. (1 END)

 

Killing Blow 3: 2 KDC (maneuver) + 2 MDC: gives us a base of 3 Killing DCs to work with, adding 15 strength gives us a total of 6 KDC. (1 END?)

 

Killing Blow 4: 4 KDC (maneuver) + 4 MDC: gives us a base of 4+4/2 = 6 Killing DCs, and if we had 30 Strength, results in a fat 12 DC KA, right? But since we only have 20, we get 10 DC Killing.

 

Now how do combat levels add into the mix? Assume I also have 4x 5-point combat levels (useable with all martial stuff, possibly limited (eg. OIF Gem of Fighting). If I read 5ER correctly, this just gives me a flat 1 extra body damage per two levels. Seems weird to me that you only get 1 body per two levels, and not per level (it's 3 stun per level for normal attacks, that's flat out more than twice as much, especially with fixed stun multiplier (which I will be using, and only at a low 2, so I'm thinking about allowing 1:1 there)). Also, I cannot go past theoretical maximum damage, BUT I can improve the capped out examples 1,2 and 3 (assuming I don't roll all sixes). Correct?

 

 

Now for the ugly part which is not so well covered in UMA (few examples) at all (and even less in 5ER). But it seems the most important rule in Superheroic is: "A weapon/power cannot more than double it's damage (due to strength)". Now is it really only strength? Assume I got an "item" like this: "HKA 2d6 (6DC K), OAF Sword." I'm using a Weapon element with my MA (or rather, define my MA for a sword, fencing style). Perfectly legal Super rules thingy. Questions I have:

 

- I can not use a martial killing maneuver to add to the damage, right?

- If I haymaker, I get to 10 DC Killing?

- If I Offensive Strike, I get to what? 8 DC due to halving?

- Now MDCs are also halved, right?

 

And last but not least the ugly: Assume I am using a OAF Sword, 2d6 HKA, Armor Piercing. How do all these things add up now? And what's my limit?

 

Strength

Martial DCs

Martial Maneuvers

Haymaker

 

Sorry for the giant post

[Doc Samson]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

Though it's a handful, all of your questions should be answered in the "Determining Damage" chapter of 5ER (starting on page 203).

 

Haymaker and Martial Maneuvers are subject to the doubling rules while Extra DCs purchased for Martial Arts are not.

For Haymaker and Martial Maneuvers, a character’s

STR is the base damage. The basic Maneuver

damage — such as +2 DCs from a Martial Strike,

or +4 DCs from an Offensive Strike or Haymaker

— is not the same thing as Extra DCs purchased

for a character’s Martial Arts (see below). In other

words, the basic damage bonus from a Maneuver

remains subject to the normal doubling rules.

Haymaker and Offensive Strike cannot add more DCs than the base.

 

Combat Skill Levels add to Killing Attacks like so...

In Superheroic campaigns, a character can use

two CSLs to add +1 BODY to the damage done by

a Killing Attack or +3 STUN to the damage done

a Normal Damage attack. (Th is bonus adds to the

overall damage, before the STUN Multiplier, if any,

is applied; it doesn’t add to each die of damage.) This

applies to both HTH and Ranged attacks. However,

the damage the character does cannot exceed the

normal maximum for the attack or weapon. For

example, if a character adds +1 BODY damage to

a weapon that does 1d6 Killing Damage, the most

BODY the weapon can do is 6, regardless of the +1.

CSLs do not allow you to exceed the maximum damage of the attack.

 

Haymaker and Martial maneuvers add to Killing Attacks like so...

For Killing Damage, every two Damage Classes

added by a Maneuver add one Damage Class worth

of damage to the attack (whether it’s an armed or

unarmed attack). For example, a Martial Strike (+2

DCs) adds one Damage Class (not two) to an HKA.

Thus, a basic Martial Strike (+2 DCs) increases an

HKA 1d6 (3 DCs) to 1d6+1 Killing Damage (4 DCs).

Remember a 1d6 Killing Attack is 3 DCs.

 

When it comes to advantages, base damage and damage that is subject to the doubling rules interact differently.

Damage bonuses from Haymakers, Martial

Maneuvers, and Combat Skill Levels are not

affected by Advantages. They add to an attack that

has Advantages at the same rate, and by the same

rules, as they do to an attack with no Advantages.

How STR interacts is determined by the APs of the attack.

When a character uses his STR to add damage

to an attack with Advantages, the main factor

in determining how to add damage is the base

(unmodified) Active Point value of the attack (i.e.,

the Active Points in the attack without any Advantages).

See page 408 for specifics.

 

Give the chapter a hard read and I think all your questions will be answered.

[pinecone]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

Also if you poke around you'll find Several "How the heck do I add up damage!?" type threads

 

Several include examples, so they're real helpfull...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

Haymaker and Offensive Strike cannot add more DCs than the base.

 

Haymaker ALWAYS adds 4 Damage Classes. ALWAYS.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

Haymaker ALWAYS adds 4 Damage Classes. ALWAYS.

 

You'll also find several contradictory opinions: according to page 406, even haymaker is limited to no more than doubling base damage

[ghost-angel]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

 

I have markers for statements like that.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

Haymaker ALWAYS adds 4 Damage Classes. ALWAYS.

Citation please?

From 5ER pg. 405.

For Haymaker and Martial Maneuvers, a character’s

STR is the base damage. Th e basic Maneuver

damage — such as +2 DCs from a Martial Strike,

or +4 DCs from an Off ensive Strike or Haymaker

— is not the same thing as Extra DCs purchased

for a character’s Martial Arts (see below). In other

words, the basic damage bonus from a Maneuver

remains subject to the normal doubling rules.

I will admit that in our game we always just allow the +4DC for a Haymaker but I just can't see a granny with a 5 STR winding up for a 5d6 attack.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

I will admit that in our game we always just allow the +4DC for a Haymaker but I just can't see a granny with a 5 STR winding up for a 5d6 attack.

IIRC, Haymaker was a straight +4DC in H5E. The restriction that it can only double the original attack was added in 5ER, precisely because of the the Granny Factor.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

Also don't forget that DCs count 2:1 for Killing; so your 4 DC Haymaker converts to 2 DCs for killing, IIRC.

[Vestnik]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

You guys have obviously never met my Granny.

[JmOz]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

And IIRC: You can not haymaker Martial Manuevers

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

And IIRC: You can not haymaker Martial Manuevers

 

Correct. Haymaker is itself a Maneuver.

[JmOz]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

Correct. Haymaker is itself a Maneuver.

 

right, I often make tanks with a martial art featuring Offensive strikes defined as "Haymakers", to represent the type of tanks that seem to do it a lot (Ben Grimm is a good example)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Martial DC, HA, HKA, Strength and Maneuvers

 

right' date=' I often make tanks with a martial art featuring Offensive strikes defined as "Haymakers", to represent the type of tanks that seem to do it a lot (Ben Grimm is a good example)[/quote']

 

Right; Offensive Strike is like a Martial Haymaker. Same damage, faster. There is also the Sacrifice Strike, which is a mirrored maneuver -- just the OCV and DCV modifiers are swapped between the two.