Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Ever play Starcraft? Remember the Zerg Sunken Colonies? Well, I'm trying to build an attack like that. RKA, Indirect sounds about right. Thing is, part of the concept is that you don't know who the character is targetting until the attack hits. Like, you see him sink a tentacle into the ground... then suddenly SNIKKT! someone's impaled, could be you! Would Indirect cover that? And if it does... should the attack get an OCV bonus? Surprise bonus? ZOMG-this-RAWX bonus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Ever play Starcraft? Remember the Zerg Sunken Colonies? Well, I'm trying to build an attack like that. RKA, Indirect sounds about right. Thing is, part of the concept is that you don't know who the character is targetting until the attack hits. Like, you see him sink a tentacle into the ground... then suddenly SNIKKT! someone's impaled, could be you! Would Indirect cover that? And if it does... should the attack get an OCV bonus? Surprise bonus? ZOMG-this-RAWX bonus? Exactly the sort of thing that indirect should cover. I might look at a limited version of the indirect as it is only from a ground direction that the attack can come. The bonuses come from use. If the GM believes that the attack was completely unexpected then he may award a bonus - if you have been fighting this kind of an attack for some time then he may believe that there would be no particular bonus for the attack. GM discretion time I think. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Readthing thru Indirect in 5ER, it bothers me that there are 4 levels, composed of two levels of two categories each: location and direction, same and any; but "direction - same" is always "away from attacker". Why? Why can't I define an attack that always fires from 3 feet in front of me, and always fires upward? In my case, for example, do I need to pay for the +3/4 Advantage, THEN limit it so that it can only come from the ground? Or can I pay for the +1/2 and fudge it, turning "always aimed/fired away from attacker" into "always aimed/fired upwards"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Tentacles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Thanks, KS, but that's not quite what I'm trying to build. It's more like... well, the character can elongate an arm, while making his hand into a sharp point. The way he uses this is to "punch" the ground, which makes his arm go in, burrowing-like, then, underground, move towards the target, then come up under the target, stabbing him from below, then retracting all the way back. Like this (and please excuse the absolute lack of quality of the drawing... not only am I not good at drawing stuff, I'm also using a crappy mouse!): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! There is some definite overlap with IPE here, but I too have often been concerned about the lack of definition (as I see it, anyway) in Indirect. I may even have posted on the subject previously. Perhaps. As I see it, indirect does two things, although that's arguably three: 1. Circumvention of intervening barriers 2. Hitting from an unexpected direction I say it is arguably three because the second can have two effects: 2a. KB takes place in an unusual direction 2b. The target may be surprised. I'm ignoring the surprise element as more appropriate for IPE or simply buying a few OCV levels and defining them as 'surprise attack' or somesuch. So, here's how I'd do it: +1/4 You can go around barriers with the attack OR +1/2 you can go through barriers with the attack The difference there is that you can't use the first level to go through an englobing barrier, whereas you can with the second. In addition you can define the 'strike direction': +1/4 You can cause KB in any direction, defined when you buy the power OR +1/2 You can cause KB in any direction, defined when you use the power That means you can, for instance, define an attack that always causes KB TOWARDS you but won't go through any barriers (some sort of magnetic blast, for instance) for +1/4. This arrangement seems to allow everything that indirect currently does but at a higher level of precision in terms of character realisation. Your tentacles thing could be built as indirect (but I probably wouldn't allow any OCV bonus for surprise), or with an sfx IPE advantage, or, as KS suggests, with an AoE, which should all function in game according to the defined sfx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Thanks, KS, but that's not quite what I'm trying to build. It's more like... well, the character can elongate an arm, while making his hand into a sharp point. The way he uses this is to "punch" the ground, which makes his arm go in, burrowing-like, then, underground, move towards the target, then come up under the target, stabbing him from below, then retracting all the way back. Like this (and please excuse the absolute lack of quality of the drawing... not only am I not good at drawing stuff, I'm also using a crappy mouse!): Just indirect, same origin different direction, plus only vs opponents on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Just indirect' date=' same origin different direction, plus only vs opponents on the ground.[/quote'] How do you figure "Same origin"? The character can make the tentacle pop out of the ground wherever he wants. I mean, sure, it originates where he is, "in real life", but game-wise, it originates from the ground under the target, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! It always comes from 'down'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! It always comes from 'down'. But 'down' isn't a location, but a direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! I think youre being overly literal. The ground is the origin point from the perspective of the attack, the character is the firing point. So: EB xd6 (vs. ED), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4) This is the same as a mortar style attack except instead of arcing up then down it arcs down then up. The concept that this goes thru the ground seems to complicate the matter, but its very reasonable for that to just be a SFX of an otherwise ranged attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! I think youre being overly literal. The ground is the origin point from the perspective of the attack, the character is the firing point. So: EB xd6 (vs. ED), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4) This is the same as a mortar style attack except instead of arcing up then down it arcs down then up. The concept that this goes thru the ground seems to complicate the matter, but its very reasonable for that to just be a SFX of an otherwise ranged attack. Ok, I certainly see your point. Wouldn't the fact that it goes through the ground, and hence is virtually invisible while doing so, cost me something? It shouldn't be "any origin", I see that now, since it wouldn't go through barriers (around, yes, but not through)... but going through the ground makes it impossible to see who's being targetted until they're actually hit (and this is part of the concept). Maybe just buy a couple of OCV levels to represent this and leave it at that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! But 'down' isn't a location' date=' but a direction.[/quote'] You sure about that? http://www.downdc.gov.uk/welcome.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! You sure about that? http://www.downdc.gov.uk/welcome.asp Ok, you win. But still, it's terribly inconvenient to have my tentacle always come out there. =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Does the tenticle attack have additional effects vs. Japanese School Girls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Ok, you win. But still, it's terribly inconvenient to have my tentacle always come out there. =/ The District Council certainly think so - they are getting up a petition to stop you using your power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Does the tenticle attack have additional effects vs. Japanese School Girls? Yes, it takes an 11- activation roll: Ha! Missed both my legs! What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Does the tenticle attack have additional effects vs. Japanese School Girls? Tenticle? Freudian slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Ok' date=' I certainly see your point. Wouldn't the fact that it goes through the ground, and hence is virtually invisible while doing so, cost me something? It shouldn't be "any origin", I see that now, since it wouldn't go through barriers (around, yes, but not through)... but going through the ground makes it impossible to see who's being targetted until they're actually hit (and this is part of the concept). Maybe just buy a couple of OCV levels to represent this and leave it at that?[/quote'] Well, as memory serves, one of the benefits of Indirect is an opportunity to catch opponents at 1/2 DCV if they aren't expecting the attack. Repeated usage is much less likely to catch them off guard. Also, the attack isn't completely undetectable; its not IPE. Its actually more perceptible than some much more common attacks that don't normally get the benefit of invisibility... like a speeding bullet for instance. While they might be caught by surprise by it occasionally characters can otherwise react to the attack in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Well, as memory serves, one of the benefits of Indirect is an opportunity to catch opponents at 1/2 DCV if they aren't expecting the attack. Repeated usage is much less likely to catch them off guard. Also, the attack isn't completely undetectable; its not IPE. Its actually more perceptible than some much more common attacks that don't normally get the benefit of invisibility... like a speeding bullet for instance. While they might be caught by surprise by it occasionally characters can otherwise react to the attack in other words. Ah ok... this is perfect, exactly what I wanted. Initially, a lot of confusion and reduced DCVs (or Suprise Move bonuses), then the opponents would adapt, and while still not knowing who is being targetted until it hits, the combat reaction would be normal (i.e. no bonuses or reduced DCV). Thanks! =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fyre Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Tenticle? Freudian slip? I don't know. That might be reaching for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! One question I have....wouldn't you have to have some kind of Tunneling mixed in there? Also, wouldn't the ground rumble slightly therefore limiting the surprise factor (I might not know where the tentacle is going to come up at, but I can sure feel the ground rumbling under my feet......) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! One question I have....wouldn't you have to have some kind of Tunneling mixed in there? Also' date=' wouldn't the ground rumble slightly therefore limiting the surprise factor (I might not know where the tentacle is going to come up at, but I can sure feel the ground rumbling under my feet......)[/quote'] The attack doesn't leave a hole in the ground, at least not a useful one, and it probably does rumble a bit which is why it is only a surprise the first time. you might want to add a limitation that the tentacle can only move through ground of a certain DEF or less, but it isn't essential for the attack per se; it would make a great deal of sense in gameplay terms to do it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! Well, no, it doesn't rumble, not at all. Part of the concept... you only see the guy inserting the thing into the ground near his feet... then all of a sudden, next thing you know, you're getting stabbed from below. The moving through a certain DEF or less is a good idea. It's certainly not meant to go through steel, for example. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Re: Ground Tentacle Attack! One question I have....wouldn't you have to have some kind of Tunneling mixed in there? Also' date=' wouldn't the ground rumble slightly therefore limiting the surprise factor (I might not know where the tentacle is going to come up at, but I can sure feel the ground rumbling under my feet......)[/quote'] A)Not necessarily and Only if you want it to and apply the appropriate modifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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