Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

[BobGreenwade]

I've not quite exhausted my own research tools on this topic, but I thought I'd throw this question out to the Hero community because you guys are generally more knowledgeable about these things than I am.

 

I'm looking for two monsters, creatures, or legendary beings, preferably but not necessarily from the myths of the lands that are now Middle Eastern Muslim countries but from before the advent of Mohammed. Creatures of Indian myth would be acceptable too, but just about anything not published in the current Bestiaries (as I have plenty from those resources) would work as long as they're from ancient myths of the real world.

 

The first is some incredibly powerful being whose presence would pose an immediate threat to the public, is very deadly in its approach to things, and could wipe out a team of very powerful heroes with just one survivor. This can be a singular creature, one with solitary habits, or one that works in groups.

 

The second is a type of creature that someone might send as an assassin against a target who can read minds, and thus detect when someone nearby intends harm to her. (In this case, if I get more than one good suggestion I can use them all.)

 

My thanks in advance for all assistance. I know I have smart people here who are eager to help others, so I know it'll be deserved.

[Flames]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Here's a monster, from 1001 Arabian Nights, an ogress that has the power to assume the pleasing shape of a human female: http://xahlee.org/p/arabian_nights/prince_ogress.html

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Hmm... do these two creatures need to be united by the same mythological background? For example, the jinn are from pre-Muslim Arab folklore, and can be incredibly powerful and often malevolent. OTOH your requirement for an assassin would appear to put "mindless" at the forefront of necessary qualities; the golem of Jewish tradition is a classic example of that, and the concept of inanimate constructs animated through magic words/letters is pretty ancient among that people.

 

Destructive, solitary creatures are easy to find in the pre-Muslim Middle East, such as Apep from Egypt, or Azi Dahaka from Iran. The really tricky part is finding an assassin who won't show up on a telepathic scan as wishing to "cause harm."

 

One possibility would be a creature or being who considers what they do to not be "harmful" to a person, but merely a manifestation of fate or the natural order, without any ill intent behind it. Would that satisfy your needs?

[jtelson]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

The Akkadian version of the Utukki are a good fit for either. They're demons, 7 of them, in service to the underworld. Generic enough that you could build them however you'd like although usually depicted as having animal head plus claws and horns, the ability to move as the wind (quickly and invisably) and often possessing people.

 

The Summarian version (Utukku) were more plentiful, generally more of a restless dead type beastie but still described the same (animal head, possession etc) but could also be benificent.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Hmm... do these two creatures need to be united by the same mythological background?

It's actually better if they aren't.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

I suppose a Daeva would constitute quite a threat to even a powerful party. As far as I can tell they are the Ancient Persian equivalent (or predecessors) of Christian Devils. Presumably they would have similar abilities but with a more Eastern flavour.

 

They seem to embody different 'evils' such as wrath and apostasy.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

It's actually better if they aren't.

 

Well, I was going to suggest mythic figures that might actually serve both functions, the seven Maskim (Babylonian), demons of destruction both overt, through floods or winds, and subtle, by bringing disease. They're variously described as being emissaries of the primordial god Anu, or of the goddess of the underworld, Ereshkigal, and her chief minister Namtar.

 

Here's a link to a translation of an ancient tablet describing the Maskim: http://www.geocities.com/digital3v14/texts/maskim_xul.html

[Comic]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

For the assassin, I'd consider the Egyptian hornet.

 

Small -- about two inches long -- difficult to detect, insect intelligence, not malevolent or wishing harm, and legendary for killing Pharoahs and soldiers with a single sting.

 

As for the big bad, there's several variants on things that appear as nothing more than a huge mouth emerging from the sand, to devour everyone in an area, ant-lion style. I think they used one in Star Wars.

[Vondy]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

I've not quite exhausted my own research tools on this topic, but I thought I'd throw this question out to the Hero community because you guys are generally more knowledgeable about these things than I am.

 

I'm looking for two monsters, creatures, or legendary beings, preferably but not necessarily from the myths of the lands that are now Middle Eastern Muslim countries but from before the advent of Mohammed. Creatures of Indian myth would be acceptable too, but just about anything not published in the current Bestiaries (as I have plenty from those resources) would work as long as they're from ancient myths of the real world.

 

The first is some incredibly powerful being whose presence would pose an immediate threat to the public, is very deadly in its approach to things, and could wipe out a team of very powerful heroes with just one survivor. This can be a singular creature, one with solitary habits, or one that works in groups.

 

The second is a type of creature that someone might send as an assassin against a target who can read minds, and thus detect when someone nearby intends harm to her. (In this case, if I get more than one good suggestion I can use them all.)

 

My thanks in advance for all assistance. I know I have smart people here who are eager to help others, so I know it'll be deserved.

 

Why not go with assyrian demons for the first pair? Asmodai and Lilitu are among the best known and most "popular" - yes, asmodeus and lilith! There are others - and there are the messopotamian demons (incl. tiamat). There are also the ancient canaanite and philistine cults. You could also look at the yezidis of armenia and the kurd areas. They have been dogged by allegations of devil worship for a very long time. These allegations aren't entirely accurate (they worship a fallen angel they say was rehabilitated - which has an interesting parallel to some midrashim dealing with the statement in genesis that the mighty ones had relations with the daughters of men), but a group of reclusive "devil worshippers" in a remote mountain region are the stuff of legends. Another option is the Biblical Pharoah. He's a classic villian and pirke d rabbi eliezer (an ancient homiletic source) says he was the king of nineveh when Jonah went to prophecy there. Its not meant to be taken literally by any stretch of the imagination, but it makes for good copy. As for the second class, Djinn and Ifrit are common middle eastern myths, as are ghouls. A marid is a kind of Djinn, but is more akin to the western conception of a genie in character. Another, if you focus more on turkey and armenia are lycanthrope myths. If you go the egyptian route, you could have a mummy that can pass for one of the living in Pharaoh's service. Another one would be a cult of egyptians dedicated to the "old gods." Wavy daggers and that sort of thing. The turks and bulgarians have a myth of a Karakoncolos, which is a sasquatch like bogey-man.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Actually I've decided to go with Lord Liaden's suggestion of Azi Dahaka (under the name Dahag) for the destructive monster.

 

For the assassin, I'm going to take a good look at the golem and the Egyptian hornet, but even if I use both I can use more. (I also have a pair of rakshasa, and kumo from AB2, along with a very human marksman.)

[CTaylor]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

There's a couple stories about invisible warriors in 1001 Arabian Nights, as well as aquatic people who can function on the surface, stronger than normal mortals.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

I realize that it's not part of the traditional folklore of the Middle East, but would you be willing to consider the classic cinematic reanimated Egyptian mummy for your assassin? There's a nice version in the HERO System Bestiary - tough, stealthy, mindlessly relentless, and lethal. If you add the included customizing options it becomes even deadlier and harder to escape.

[Susano]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/creatures.html#myth

 

Bob -- take a look here. I have a Jinn, Ghul, and others.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/creatures.html#myth

 

Bob -- take a look here. I have a Jinn, Ghul, and others.

Nice to see you in this thread, Mike. The ghul looks like a good addition, and some of the other critters will be handy for something else I'm wanting to do. (I was especially pleased to see the afanc there.)

[Susano]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Nice to see you in this thread' date=' Mike. The ghul looks like a good addition, and some of the other critters will be handy for something else I'm wanting to do. (I was especially pleased to see the afanc there.)[/quote']

 

There will be others... eventually.

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Djinn are pre Muhammad as well as Babylonian mythos creatures. Biblical Leviathan and Tiamat have similarities as being a dragon of sorts. Pazuzu is an evil fiend of legond.

 

Here is another from Babylonian mythos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazuzu

 

link about Tiamat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat

 

Link about Leviathan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

[Vondy]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Djinn are pre Muhammad as well as Babylonian mythos creatures. Biblical Leviathan and Tiamat have similarities as being a dragon of sorts. Pazuzu is an evil fiend of legond.

 

Here is another from Babylonian mythos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazuzu

 

link about Tiamat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat

 

Link about Leviathan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

 

 

Never trust wiki. There is no basis in the Jewish corpus for comparing leviathan to a dragon. The only biblical references to a dragon that would attach to the time of babylon are the additional chapters the christians added to the book of daniel. Also, Tiamat wasn't a dragon and its an error in early translation attempts [and bad role playing game supplements] that has led to that notion. Modern scholarship on enuma elish interprets it very differently. The medieval kabballa does, however, discuss the teli, and one theory is that it is likened to the constellation draconis, another is that they are beings living on the edges of the universe, and another is that they are transdimensional beings. More realistically, the word appears in relation to one of the weapons Esau is described as carrying, probably a bolo.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

I realise that this is purely non-authentic but in Fatal Revenant, Stephen Donaldson uses a creature called a Sand Gorgon that I think would be fantastic to use in a game. Obviously they need a bit of thinking about but they are essentially like a froce of nature tunnelling through sand at a fantastic speed and are able to reduce stone and physical buildings very quickly. They are purely physical and almost a stone and fire representation of hunger.

 

If you kill a sand gorgon then other gorgons will gather to eat it and spawn new gorgons (no reveal yet as to how to stop that process - perhaps never will be as it is not relevant to the story so far). They are very resistant to physical damage and almost impervious to fire and heat damage. Their flesh is hot and can cause damage but the giant protagonists in the story kill them by reaching deep into their flesh and removing a vital organ (I'm calling that their brain).

 

They are like wind worn stone with simple arms and blunt 'faces'. They have no fine manipulation skills and, barring one or two ancient examples, without sentience.

 

These are a huge threat to any party but one, with proper guidance from NPCs etc, might prove a worthy challenge - the spawning of new ones from the one they only just defeated would be a good prologue to the adventure. Something the heroes will have to deal with in the future.

 

 

Doc

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Posted by Von D-Man

The only biblical references to a dragon that would attach to the time of babylon are the additional chapters the christians added to the book of daniel.

 

I'm sorry but the Christians did not add anything to the book of Daniel the Roman Catholic Church did, considering portions that contained within the book found pre date Christ I prescribe to the The Masoretic text rather than to what people made up. What you just said sounds more of common myth perpetuated by the ignorant where documents obviously prove otherwise. I was referring to the book of Job chapter 41. If you read the description you get loosely translated "Dragon-like-creature-who resides-in-sea" like where Tiamat is supposed hide. Many legends including the one about Tiamat have some basis in fact. A creature that has similarities of residing in the ocean feared by man could be a good basis for what the OP was seeking. Keep in mind also that Job was from Ur a real city of the Chaldeans that resided in southern Tigris and Euphrates region. Ur would be a Babylonian area in its south.

 

Don't knock wiki so much as some of the information can be useful to point to other links or get a general idea of what someone might be looking for or what several theories of a particular topic might encompass. Although I do agree you should proceed with caution when looking up information on wiki.

[McCoy]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

I'm sorry but the Christians did not add anything to the book of Daniel the Roman Catholic Church did' date=' [snip'] What you just said sounds more of common myth perpetuated by the ignorant where documents obviously prove otherwise.

As a former mod with absolutely no authority anymore, I suggest some rephrasing may be in order, as well as a couple of deep breaths before posting.

[Tungsten Shephard]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

posted by McCoy

As a former mod with absolutely no authority anymore, I suggest some rephrasing may be in order, as well as a couple of deep breaths before posting.

 

I agree we can start with this obvious false statement.

 

Posted by Von D-Man

The only biblical references to a dragon that would attach to the time of babylon are the additional chapters the christians added to the book of daniel.

 

Allow me to clarify further. I did not appreciate the attacks on Christianity as a whole by throwing in one sect's crime of adding to a book that predates Christ for the sake of color. Then lumping all of Christendom into the same category as in agreement with this horrendous act by it's perpetrators.

 

My original reference was once again on Job 41 out of Ur.

 

The Passige reads: Job 41

 

1-11"Or can you pull in the sea beast,

Leviathan, with a fly rod and stuff him in your creel?

Can you lasso him with a rope,

or snag him with an anchor?

Will he beg you over and over for mercy,

or flatter you with flowery speech?

Will he apply for a job with you

to run errands and serve you the rest of your life?

Will you play with him as if he were a pet goldfish?

Will you make him the mascot of the neighborhood children?

Will you put him on display in the market

and have shoppers haggle over the price?

Could you shoot him full of arrows like a pin cushion,

or drive harpoons into his huge head?

If you so much as lay a hand on him,

you won't live to tell the story.

What hope would you have with such a creature?

Why, one look at him would do you in!

If you can't hold your own against his glowering visage,

how, then, do you expect to stand up to me?

Who could confront me and get by with it?

I'm in charge of all this—I run this universe!

 

12-17 "But I've more to say about Leviathan, the sea beast,

his enormous bulk, his beautiful shape.

Who would even dream of piercing that tough skin

or putting those jaws into bit and bridle?

And who would dare knock at the door of his mouth

filled with row upon row of fierce teeth?

His pride is invincible;

nothing can make a dent in that pride.

Nothing can get through that proud skin—

impervious to weapons and weather,

The thickest and toughest of hides,

impenetrable!

 

18-34 "He snorts and the world lights up with fire,

he blinks and the dawn breaks.

Comets pour out of his mouth,

fireworks arc and branch.

Smoke erupts from his nostrils

like steam from a boiling pot.

He blows and fires blaze;

flames of fire stream from his mouth.

All muscle he is—sheer and seamless muscle.

To meet him is to dance with death.

Sinewy and lithe,

there's not a soft spot in his entire body—

As tough inside as out,

rock-hard, invulnerable.

Even angels run for cover when he surfaces,

cowering before his tail-thrashing turbulence.

Javelins bounce harmlessly off his hide,

harpoons ricochet wildly.

Iron bars are so much straw to him,

bronze weapons beneath notice.

Arrows don't even make him blink;

bullets make no more impression than raindrops.

A battle ax is nothing but a splinter of kindling;

he treats a brandished harpoon as a joke.

His belly is armor-plated, inexorable—

unstoppable as a barge.

He roils deep ocean the way you'd boil water,

he whips the sea like you'd whip an egg into batter.

With a luminous trail stretching out behind him,

you might think Ocean had grown a gray beard!

There's nothing on this earth quite like him,

not an ounce of fear in that creature!

He surveys all the high and mighty—

king of the ocean, king of the deep!"

 

Although this text is very ancient and predates Judaism & Mosses it was written in the land of Ur, south of Babylon near the sea. The Babylonians also seem to have a creature that fits this description a creature of sorts bound within the depth of the sea. Tiamat from Enûma Eliš fits this description. Read the link of Timat on wiki (surprisingly it's fairly accurate although some of the information is in dispute) of sorts. Now I would like to point out that even though neither text says "Dragon" you can read of both and still get the idea of something similar within the depths of the sea south of Babylon. The OP was looking for some suggestions. I offered some info with references to check up upon and next post was an insult to my post.

 

Go figure...

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

And, please, we can leave off dragon discussions. I have the Big Baddie I need.

 

Potential assassins from myth (from any culture, really) are still quite welcome.

[McCoy]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

A rakshasa (Sanskrit: रा॑क्षसः, rā́kṣasaḥ; alternately rakshas, Malay: raksasa, Bengali: rakshosh, Japanese: rasetsuten) is a demon or unrighteous spirit in Hindu and Buddhist mythology. Rakshasas are also called man-eaters ("Nri-chakshas," "Kravyads") or cannibals. A female rakshasa is called a rakshasi, and a female rakshasa in human form is a manushya-rakshasi.

 

According to the Ramayana, rakshasas were created from Brahma's foot; other sources claim they are descended from Pulastya, or from Khasa, or from Nirriti and Nirrita. Legend has it that many rakshasas were particularly wicked humans in previous incarnations. Rakshasas are notorious for disturbing sacrifices, desecrating graves, harassing priests, possessing human beings, and so on. Their fingernails are venomous, and they feed on human flesh and spoiled food. They are shapechangers, illusionists, and magicians.

Rakshasa often appear in the form of the person their target loves or trust best. According to some sources, they can only be killed with a blessed crossbow. Don't know if their shapshifting could extend to fool a telepath, but as they seem to be telepaths themselves (how else would they know what form their target would think harmless?) doesn't seem to be much of a stretch.

[Susano]

Re: Seeking a couple of Middle Eastern monsters.

 

Rakshasa often appear in the form of the person their target loves or trust best. According to some sources' date=' they can only be killed with a blessed crossbow. Don't know if their shapshifting could extend to fool a telepath, but as they seem to be telepaths themselves (how else would they know what form their target would think harmless?) doesn't seem to be much of a stretch.[/quote']

 

AB 1 discusses the Rakshasa in detail.