Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

[nexus]

Some Desolid characters that can cause others to become intangible as well have a very nasty trick up there sleeve. They'll render their victim incorporeal and either wrestle, push or let them "sink" into solid matter than turn off the power. The result is usually gory immediate death or least sever maiming. How would you build this ability in Hero System terms, assuming no point or Active point limits?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

RKA, target must be near a significant mass of solid matter.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

Some Desolid character that can cause others to become intangible as well have a very nasty trick up there sleeve. They'll render their victim incorporeal and either wrestle' date=' push or let them "sink" into solid matter than turn off the power. The result is usually gory immediate death or least sever maiming. How would you build this ability in Hero System terms, assuming no point or Active point limits?[/quote']

Our most recent Desolidificator (?) used an Entangle to model a similar power (like in the 3rd X-Men movie). If you want "gory immediate death or least sever maiming" and are not worried about APs, I would go with a 6d6 HKA, NND (+1) [Defense is Desolidifcation, Teleportation, or EDM], Does BODY (+1) (270 APs). (references on 5ER pgs. 148, 173, 233, and 367)

[Vondy]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

There are [at least] two approaches you can take. One is to build it as a killing attack with various mods attached. The other is to have it be a side effect of letting go of the otherwise tangible person and use the rules for teleporters who materialize in a solid object to determine damage. The first avoids potential abuse and is strictly orthodox; the second is more elegant and makes more sense to me from a functional perspective.

 

Deso isn't a normal attack power so its pretty clear what potential applications they have in mind when they tack usable as attack onto it - and that's what those extra points from the advantage are theoretically paying for. And IIRC UAA is at least a +1 advantage (more if you can use the power and attack with it at the same time). Presupposing a straight buy without limitations, your paying at least 40 points to use deso in some sort of unconventional way. Considering that you have to grab and move someone into an object to pull this off, that once they are deso you have eliminated your primary defense against attack, and that you actually have to overpower them to get them into position, that doesn't sound too horrible to me [barring other factos in the build that might set of alarm bells in conjunction with it].

 

If your building a "desolid master" style character and tacked Affects Physical World, 0 End, Persistant, and inherent onto the power as well the cost is going to be 40 * 5.25 = 210 Points (or more if the cost of UAA is more than +1 for simultaneous use). That's huge and I wouldn't sweat this as a power trick as a result. Even with Always On it would weigh in at a 158 point power - ouch. For that cost you could put a pretty impressive desolidification variable power pool on the character, or buy the power as 0 END, Persistant, Inherent, Always On for 67 Points and have 91 Points to dump into a mutlipower of power tricks (that you can slap more limitations on to get the reserve cost down). For me, once they've paid this much for a power, it becomes six of one and half a dozen of the other.

 

Buying one massive power and allowing logical power tricks can be mitigated somewhat by having a frank discussion with the player about the power from a metagaming perspective, psychological lims that restrict the frequency of its use in-game, making it a power trick that requires a skill roll, and letting the target attempt some sort of split second abort maneuver to avoid the effect before they de-phase back into corporeal form. Its a judgement call. We don't force a water-breathng character to pay for a drowning attack when he drags someone under-water. He's just making use of his environment intelligently. If you paid that much for the power I'd call it, with some balance oriented restrictions, a gimme.

 

On the other hand, if abuse is a concern (and since you posited an unlimited budget), you could just build it as 6d6 RKA, NND +1, Does Body +1, No Range -1/2, Target Must Materialize In Solid Object -1/2. It costs 135 Points. It would have to be put in an elemental control or a big multipower to be even remotely affordable, but it does do instant death nicely for most potential targets. Another method, to make it more affordable, is to buy a low level killing attack and make it NND, Does Body, 0 End, Continous, [and if wanted] Uncontrolled and assume the realignment to solid state is slow and agonizing and unavoidable without tunnelling. It will take a few turns to die, but you will die (and it can fit into a more normal sized framework nicely].

[boomer]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

Von D has the right of it. My DESO character Ghost has Usable as an Attack and Usable Against Others. She will only use the more deadlier of her abilities against Genocide. Limitation is she still has to make an attack roll to grab an opponent to make them desolid. As far as determining damage....just call it instant death. I mean if someone were to solidify a stop sign in your body, you'd pretty much be dead.

[Alibear]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

Can I ask where the 6d6 RKA comes from. Not that I disagree necessarily, just wondering where 2 (I think) posters got the numbers from?

 

Is that the damage for Teleporting into a solid object?

 

edit: bad skim reader. Carry on.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

As elegant as the default T-port damage rules are, I think I would make the character buy it as an attack to prevent abuse. If they don't buy it and try this trick, the target pops out of the solid matter like a ping-pong ball out of water because two physical objects can't occupy the same space.

 

What I don't understand is why it should necessarily be an RKA and not an EB NND Does BDY. That will give you a more standard amount of damage dealt which makes sense to me because you can only desolidify so much mass to begin with which will have some typical amount of BDY. But the ultimately effect is the same, so it probably doesn't matter (no pun intended).

[Doc Samson]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

I chose 6d6 for the attack based on the table on pg. 263, which has rules for characters that Teleport, EDM, or Solidify (pgs. 148, 173, 233) in an object. The damage ranges from 3d6 STUN to 6d6 Killing damage, with no defense against the damage. As this is an attack and not happening by accident, I assumed the worst (6d6 Killing with no defense).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

Entangle with a linked attack (probably a RKA, NND, Does Body ... deuced if I can think of a good defense, aside from possibly Desolidification of your own).

[Vondy]

Re: Desolidiification UAA Bury in Solid Matter

 

Can I ask where the 6d6 RKA comes from. Not that I disagree necessarily, just wondering where 2 (I think) posters got the numbers from?

 

Is that the damage for Teleporting into a solid object?

 

edit: bad skim reader. Carry on.

 

 

It is from the TP rules.

 

However, it also produces of an average of 21 body on an average roll, which is instant death +1 Body for the normal 10 body default PC. If you assume normals with 8 body and use standard effect you still get 18 body, which is instant death on the nose.