nexus Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Some superhero worlds, particularly more modern ones, attempt to explain all the odd implications of Superpowers and how they tie into the laws of physics as understood in our world. Psionics or "reality bending" are common explanations, for example. Does that kind of bum anyone else out? It does for me many times since it seems to damp down on some of the "fun" of a comic book world. The Hulk isn't strong because of his unbreakable gamma irradiated muscles but because a psionicist that hasn't figured out he can effect things beyond his arms reach. It ties into something I've noticed. I don't like to play character who's power source is not what they think it is when it's pretty obvious to a big portion of the campaign setting. Like a character that believes their powers are "magical" or "Supertech" in Vanilla Aberrant is essentially delusional. I understand this is a plus for good number of fans that value consistency and don't like handwaving and I'm not dumping on their preferences Just wondering does it hamper anyone elses' enjoyment or I'm pretty unique in that. Please keep that in mind if your reply and try not to get defensive. There is no badwrongfun*. *Except Reality TV. That's just Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiducia Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy It does bother me, yes. I think, especially in a multi-faceted universe such as a supers game would engender, "simplifying" all powers to the genre/source of reality bending (or similar) is lame. Part of the fun is the different and wild ways people GET super powers. On the same vein, I HATE HATE HATE it when authors or GM's too heavily define a power that by it's very nature is mystical and unknowable. Magic is the big one for me. I read Mercedes Lackey for a long time but stopped cold when she started getting technical about her magic and how it was defined and used. That drove me nuts cuz it didn't FEEL like magic anymore and that's NOT magic...that's science and I'm not reading fantasy to learn about thermodynamics. Same thing with super powers. You take the uniqueness of the power away and it doesn't FEEL like a supers game anymore to me. I don't know what it feels like...actually. It's just uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy A good explanation usually doesn't ruin anything for me. Often times it enhances things, so long as the abilites work with some kind of internal logic and consistency. There have been times that "the facts" have ruined a perfectly good fantasy for me though. Tends to come up a lot with the portrayal of martial arts and various action hero stunts in otherwise "realistic" fiction. IMO, there's nothing wrong with a character that doesn't accept the way things "really" work. In DC, Mr Terrific does not believe in magic, he thinks it's just some form of psionic energy/matter manipulation. He also does not believe in the Divine in any form, even if it's looking him right in the eye. Various gods? Just powerful aliens beings, no different from Superman really. Dr Fate, Zauriel, the Specter, Black Adam, Zatana and countless others obviously thinks otherwise. In my game, one of the PC's thinks his powers are the result of his mastery of his chi, when in reality they are the result of exposure to an "alien" retrovirus. Of course, this character is more than a little delusional, since his only Kung Fu training comes from obsessively watching old chop socky flicks, but that's how his psyche is dealing with the (litteral) shock of suddenly being able to shoot lightning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Okay I know the topic is not really about Catgirls but I couldn't help thinking of this pic from the title. On topic, I think that it's important for house games to be accommodating for various origins unless the group has agreed to play in a setting where everyone knows the ground rules. A game set in the Heroes TV show universe is unlikely to have a magic origin hero pop up but as long as the players know what they're in for ahead of time go for it. Personally I think it's better to have a setting that's open to multiple options without the Delusional character option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy For a minute there I thought this was going to link to that evil site where it encourages players to badger their GMs (of any genre) into playing catgirls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy IMO, there's nothing wrong with a character that doesn't accept the way things really work. . There's nothing objectively wrong with that type of character. I don't mind reading about them but I don't like to play them as PCs. It really gets under my skin and I've dropped games because of it. It doesn't bug me if someone else wants to play one either. Not sure why, but there you go. That you can just "pretend" comes up much of the time in one origin settings as an answer but it's not satisfactory to me. n DC, Mr Terrific does not believe in magic, he thinks it's just some form of psionic energy/matter manipulation. He also does not believe in the Divine in any form, even if it's looking him right in the eye. Various gods? Just powerful aliens beings, no different from Superman really. Dr Fate, Zauriel, the Specter, Black Adam, Zatana and countless others obviously thinks otherwise. As for Mr Terrific, his attitude is borderline for me from sound of it. He's hair splitting but not outright denying things. From a certain perspective, he's not really wrong. I could play a scientific character that believed magic was just another force to be understood and harnessed But not one who though his power suit was a scientific device but in the game reality was powered by bound elemental spirits or his psychokinetic powers. I freely admit it's a fine line. But one is doubting an fine detail of the game world one is deluding yourself about the source of your own abilities. To use Ben10 as an example, I wouldn't like to play Gwen as honestly believing her powers were "magic" after the truth was revealed. And I wouldn't be particularly happy to have something like that sprung on me without my previous approval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Okay I know the topic is not really about Catgirls but I couldn't help thinking of this pic from the title. http://www.warehouse23.com/img/full/SP3001.jpg I knew someone was going to post that picture. It mean spirited but kinda funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Ops Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy For a minute there I thought this was going to link to that evil site where it encourages players to badger their GMs (of any genre) into playing catgirls... Dare I ask ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva13 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy In my own setting, I use an overall unified origin for all supers. It explains whwat they are and what they represent within the context of the setting. A sort of meta explanation. But that doesn't really limit the styles of characters that can be played. Magic in my setting is a form of energy that can be shaped and made to do other things by someone who knows how. Picture it as a ball of clay that can be reshaped by a master sculptor. That's the best analogy. Simply that Magic operates on its own set physics and possibility. Which I don't try to define further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy For the record, in my game several people claim to know where all super powers come from. Two of the stories, from parallel dimensions even, seem to mesh. But there are different explainations and these explainations tend to influence how people use their powers. But even those that are "in the know" could all be wrong. Would finding this out annoy you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy For the record, in my game several people claim to know where all super powers come from. Two of the stories, from parallel dimensions even, seem to mesh. But there are different explanations and these explanations tend to influence how people use their powers. But even those that are "in the know" could all be wrong. Would finding this out annoy you? Several theories doesn't bother me. Anyone (or everyone) could be right. I don't like to play "deluded" characters in one true origin settings (like Aberrant). I'm fine with playing a character in those settings if I like them enough (for example Gestalt Earth though it it does offer a few other options). But if I want to play, for example, a mage and there is not magic ni the game I prefer to know that upfront so I can either pick something that works or abstain not play a character that think they are a mage only to find out later they're half alien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Ok, gotcha. Yeah, for most people it would kinda suck to find out that you are the avatar of a spider god when your whole life you thought your powers came from a radioactive arachnid bite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Dare I ask ? My brain has since thankfully lost the address, but it was a site dedicated to those who like to "roleplay" catgirls and who cares if they're Mary Sueish, you need to force your GM into letting you play one anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva13 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy The "meta-explanation" in my material has no impact at all on what a person can play. And I do make sure to tell everyone straight up the fact that Time Travel and other dimensions don't exist. But in the case of the latter, I have a different explanation on the whole "other realms" issue. So impact on what someone can play is really almost nil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Ok, gotcha. Yeah, for most people it would kinda suck to find out that you are the avatar of a spider god when your whole life you thought your powers came from a radioactive arachnid bite... Or they're really half alien energy being when they thought they were a mage. It's a personal preference for my PCs, not a blanket condemnation of the concept in any form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy I still have no idea what catgirls have to do with this thread. At any rate ... Amusingly, I'm playing a character right now who is mystical, but doesn't believe in magic (yet ... she's not going to be able to advance much further 'til she gets over that). She's operating off the concept that she has a 'recurring mutation' that inspired a mythological being, rather than actually being one. A fair chunk of this is my enjoyment of whizzing all over classic character stereotypes. The character is also half-Japanese but has no interest whatsoever in Japanese culture, language, or anything of the sort; she identifies herself purely as 'American', not 'Asian-American', and so forth. Of course, something we do have to consider, in Gwen's case, is that she's not in a role-playing game. She's in a cartoon, a purely self-contained work of fiction. I'm sure the guys at Man of Action didn't feel compelled to ask Gwen's voice actress if she objected to the change. There's no issue of character ownership here; Man of Action owns Gwen and can do whatEVer they want to her, be it retcon, re-imagining or reinterpretation. As a player, it would suck, but that's just not an issue with Gwen, or Spider-Man (to reference the other thing brought up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy I still have no idea what catgirls have to do with this thread. There is an old (by Internet standards) joke about every time you bring up physics in a discussion of fantasy or comic books, God kills a catgirl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Of course, something we do have to consider, in Gwen's case, is that she's not in a role-playing game. She's in a cartoon, a purely self-contained work of fiction. I'm sure the guys at Man of Action didn't feel compelled to ask Gwen's voice actress if she objected to the change. There's no issue of character ownership here; Man of Action owns Gwen and can do whatEVer they want to her, be it retcon, re-imagining or reinterpretation. As a player, it would suck, but that's just not an issue with Gwen, or Spider-Man (to reference the other thing brought up). How many times do I have to say "I don't have a problem with the character type in fiction but that I don't like playing PCs like that." I didn't particularly care for the changes made to Gwen (or other characters in Ben10 Alien Force) but that would be because i don't think they were a good idea, made sense or even made the character more interesting (IMO) but I (and I'd imagine Bloodstone) know the character isn't attached to a player. Same goes for Spiderman. The only reason they were brought up as example of characters who's "true" origins were something very different from what they thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy How many times do I have to say "I don't have a problem with the character type in fiction but that I don't like playing PCs like that." I didn't particularly care for the changes made to Gwen (or other characters in Ben10 Alien Force) but that would be because i don't think they were a good idea' date=' made sense or even made the character more interesting (IMO) but I (and I'd imagine Bloodstone) know the character isn't attached to a player. Same goes for Spiderman. The only reason they were brought up as example of characters who's "true" origins were something very different from what they thought.[/quote'] I pretty much jumped to the end of the thread, so missed most of those, my apologies. I don't have any objections to the changes in Gwen, but that's largely due to a preference for keeping genres separate. You either have magic, or you have science-fiction, you don't bloody cross the streams. This, making Gwen's power scientifically based works for me. It brings her in-line with the rest of the characters' origins, arguably brings her power level down since she can no longer Deux Ex Magician her way out of a situation with 'just the right spell'. I approve of this change. Kevin's power needed to change because he's a permanent member of the cast. While the gestalt of Ben's original forms is still different from what Ben does with the Omnitrix (silly aliens, the Omnitrix is for kids!), there's some overlap there, particularly since most of the Alien Force forms are gotten by mixing powers of the old forms. And yes, that would suck as a player unless you were told beforehand. "I want to play a wizard." "My game world has no magic, but he could be a cosmic energy manipulator who just thinks he's using magic." Rather like how Rahne Sinclair always called herself a 'werewolf' when she was just a mutant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamamura Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy As long as I am not going blind, I don't mind a world that sets down the rules of what is really going on. I just don't want to be surprised. Let me know before hand that all powers are based on magic/nan-tech/psionic and I will create a character that may or may not believe that. But it is then my choice to be delusional;) Now speaking as a GM, some character types do not fit into your campaign's Weltanschauung. Case in point, I tend to avoid allowing players creating angels. This I will admit is based on my own religious beliefs. I let any player know this right from the start. If he wants to play a being that resembles and believes he is an angel that is fine but I am not changing my world concept to fit his character concept. The player knows this from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted June 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Hopefully heading of a major potential derail Here's a thread discussing Ben10: Alien Force (with write ups!) http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64120&highlight=Ben10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy Okay I know the topic is not really about Catgirls but I couldn't help thinking of this pic from the title. I can't read what the catgirl is saying. Lucius Alexander But I approve of spaying your catgirls. All catgirls from Palindromedary Enterprises come spayed. We only sell fertile catgirls to approved breeders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy "This isn't kawaii...this isn't kawaii at all!" Kawaii=Cute in Japanese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy I read a web novel called Void Dogs. it's sci-fi... ish. It has a long winded explanation of how they achieved faster than light travel. After a long tirade about Physics and it's laws it summed up space travel this way (paraphrase): Magic doesn't obey the laws of physics, so it had no problem creating engines that went faster than light. I kind of like that thought... you have Physics. And then you have Other. Something things fall under Other and it just isn't relevant to anything HOW Other works, just that it does and can be harnessed. Of course, explanations don't bother me either, I just prefer to go without them. It's why I can't read Hard SF. I don't care. Just tell me the stupid spaceship landed. Or the wizard tossed a raging inferno. Or whatever. Other stuff happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egyptoid Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy like in Indiana Jones and the KoCS... did you choke on: the refrigerator... the giant ants... the dimensional , er, gate or did you just enjoy the movie ? hopefully you enjoyed all the moments, and you carry the same suspension of disbelief into your RPGs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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