Street Sweepers

[Atomic Ray]

As a new member I came off a bit strong, but, it cleared the cobwebs out of my head.

 

To the point I was throwing rocks at the glass house of point levels and in particular low point characters vs power gamer point levels...well I still seek the lower point levels for my games but I do appreciate the high level characters; in someone else's game

 

Street Sweepers...plain clothes, underground supers who cruise the alleys, docks, slums, warehouse districts, and the industrial zones cleaning up the trash.

 

Sin City is a good example of the theme I am looking to paint. A modern pulp hero. The best part being the times that the sweepers meet and deal with situations that are beyond their resources...running into the big villain who is ducking the radar, catching the evil agency with their pants down as they are bringing in the big shipment, or the like.

 

In the end I think I prefer the interaction and reaction of the players/characters to having to deal with a situation with teamwork, planning, and thinking rather than picking which power to use for the moment.

 

Anyway...Street Sweepers, Janitors, Cleaners, or whatever you want to call them...does this style/theme appeal to you?

 

Do you prefer the costumes, four-five color, with big points and if so why? This is not a my way your way kind of thing, more of a curious issue of the seaming need for mega levels of points.

 

Do super heroes need to be gods?

 

 

I can see the concept of ultra high point levels/characters having a place in a comic book world but I do not see the need for all characters to be that level.

 

I like the idea of blue collar super heroes...tradesmen, professionals, craftsmen, union card holding members with a license to kick evil's dirty a s s.

 

Does this do anything for you or am I alone...fighting the good fight without hope of backup?

 

Atomic Ray

[lemming]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

In the end I think I prefer the interaction and reaction of the players/characters to having to deal with a situation with teamwork, planning, and thinking rather than picking which power to use for the moment.

Here's your misconception: High points means that teamwork doesn't matter, and that you become a collection of powers

 

That is false.

 

At higher point totals, you might have to watch your play balance a bit more, but if you've got a good player base, you can deal with it.

[Atomic Ray]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Here's your misconception: High points means that teamwork doesn't matter' date=' and that you become a collection of powers[/b']That is false. At higher point totals, you might have to watch your play balance a bit more, but if you've got a good player base, you can deal with it.

 

I do agree to a certain degree and I would love to have a group that this would be the case...but truthfully I have not had a group like that, ever, since my first RPG in 1977 at the tender age of 12yrs old. The average player profile was one power gamer for every four players. One "quiet man" who shows up and is happy to step back allowing others to act/speak first.

 

The higher point values tend to lend the individual more tools which for a mechanic is a good thing but if you ever met a grease monkey you know he would most likely never lend you a tool...they tend to be independent.

 

So I guess the point would be that if you have lots of tools, great movement, good range, high end H/H, strong defenses, etc. it tends to push the need for teamwork out the door as each character is his or her own army of one.

 

But this is not a rant about power levels/points, I am really curious if the ground level superhero is appealing as a whole.

 

Most likely this is a better "pulp hero" subject but the setting is more modern and familiar so I started here.

 

Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it.

 

Better still help me find a good local group

 

Atomic Ray

[Vulcan]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

While a high point character can be an 'army of one' against characters of lower point totals, against opponens of the same point level it should be about equal.

 

If you want to inspire teamwork among 350 point characters, pit them against well-rounded teams of opponents. Or pull out the big guns... Eurostar, Dr. D., Menton...

 

For your street-sweepers game:

This sounds very much like a Dark Champions game, or maybe DC:TAS. The thing to bear in mind is that the heros SHOULD be able to take on a thug one-on-one and expect to win. A lieutenant supported by a group of thugs, or a villian 'cleanup' team should be about even odds. And the master villian (unless he's the equivalent of Lex Luthor) should outpoint them heavily, to make them earn the eventual victory.

[sinanju]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Do you prefer the costumes' date=' four-five color, with big points and if so why? This is not a my way your way kind of thing, more of a curious issue of the seaming need for mega levels of points.[/quote']

 

I think "plain clothes" superheroes can work very well--the Wild Cards books, or instance, have relatively few aces who wear garish costumes and masks. Those that do, usually do so for a good reason. The Turtle, for instance, has to feel safe to be able to access his insanely powerful TK ability--so he stays inside his armored shell and remains anonymous.

 

It's not so much power level as being able to build the character I want with the points available. Tell me "build a Superman-level character" and I want to be all that and a bag of chips. If I have to shave points (or take a meat cleaver to the concept) , I'm going to be dissatisfied. Tell me "street level supers with one big power or an array of very closely linked abilities, nobody who can't be taken out by a bullet" and I can do that--but if I have to shave points, I'm going to dissatisfied.

[bubba smith]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

As a new member I came off a bit strong, but, it cleared the cobwebs out of my head.

 

To the point I was throwing rocks at the glass house of point levels and in particular low point characters vs power gamer point levels...well I still seek the lower point levels for my games but I do appreciate the high level characters; in someone else's game

 

Street Sweepers...plain clothes, underground supers who cruise the alleys, docks, slums, warehouse districts, and the industrial zones cleaning up the trash.

 

Sin City is a good example of the theme I am looking to paint. A modern pulp hero. The best part being the times that the sweepers meet and deal with situations that are beyond their resources...running into the big villain who is ducking the radar, catching the evil agency with their pants down as they are bringing in the big shipment, or the like.

 

In the end I think I prefer the interaction and reaction of the players/characters to having to deal with a situation with teamwork, planning, and thinking rather than picking which power to use for the moment.

 

Anyway...Street Sweepers, Janitors, Cleaners, or whatever you want to call them...does this style/theme appeal to you?

 

Do you prefer the costumes, four-five color, with big points and if so why? This is not a my way your way kind of thing, more of a curious issue of the seaming need for mega levels of points.

 

Do super heroes need to be gods?

 

 

I can see the concept of ultra high point levels/characters having a place in a comic book world but I do not see the need for all characters to be that level.

 

I like the idea of blue collar super heroes...tradesmen, professionals, craftsmen, union card holding members with a license to kick evil's dirty a s s.

 

Does this do anything for you or am I alone...fighting the good fight without hope of backup?

 

Atomic Ray

i wouldn't mind having a license like that and the abilites to use it

no not ALL super-heroes have to be as powerful as demigods, those with olympic level athletics can be heroes as well as can those with street level powers such as spider-man.

[bubba smith]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

i just thought of something

since steve long prefers dark champions to have non super-powered vigilantes as opposed to super-heroes except for a dark champs tas hudson city powers campaign why not call low powered supers STREET champions to differentiate them

[Trebuchet]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

But this is not a rant about power levels/points, I am really curious if the ground level superhero is appealing as a whole.

 

Most likely this is a better "pulp hero" subject but the setting is more modern and familiar so I started here.

It's got some appeal, but to me you're talking Pulp Hero levels of power; not supers - even low-level ones. In our 75+75 point Pulp Hero campaign I run a martial artist with SPD 4/DEX 20 who can dish out up to 8d6 of damage if he uses Levels. To me that's close enough to low-level supers or street sweepers despite the lack of spandex; especially since the team's mission is to travel the world righting wrongs and combating evil. We're just doing it in 1907 instead of 2008.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Really no appeal to me but that's my personal take. My group and I have always wanted to be the creme of the creme in the environment. They want to be Doc savage , The Shadow or Tarzan not some backup guys. Now if the general power level is low they accommodate as long as they're not hamstrung. We prefer things that way. My group doesn't mind starting relatively low on the totem poll but they want the potential to hang with the big boys.

 

I'm sure with the right group you can make it fun. You do have to worry a little less about keeping the point levels so low IMO and make sure they have enough to make their concepts.

[sbarron]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Do super heroes need to be gods?

Are the characters you're describing actual "super" heroes?

 

John McClaine is a hero, but he's not a super hero, as he has no powers. Batman and Robin are super heroes, but I'm not sure how well they'd fit in a low-point game.

 

Maybe you could post a character for the game you are describing? Give us a better idea about what kind of game it is you're discussing. Right now, I'm not sure if you're talking about a Dark Champions or Pulp Hero game, which wouldn't really have "super" heroes, or something more like PS238, which would have low-powered super heroic characters. Or maybe something like Scanners...I'm not sure I'd call those guy super heroes or super villians, even though they have powers.

[Prometheus]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

In the end I think I prefer the interaction and reaction of the players/characters to having to deal with a situation with teamwork' date=' planning, and thinking rather than picking which power to use for the moment.[/quote']

Well, this is one instance where I'd say the source material differs from the scenario you're describing. Taking Sin City as an example, Marv and Dwight team up for one issue- with their plan boiling down to "You take the Big Guy". Otherwise these guys are loners who deal with setbacks with the application of more violence. They also take the kind of punishment and deal with the bad guys on a scale that makes them human only in name. Paint Marv green or give Dwight claws and you're halfway to Marvel's headliners.

 

In the pulps you had guys like Sam Spade and the Shadow, and while they were intelligent and well connected, they worked alone. It's really the same in movies.

 

RPGs are different in that they allow for groups like what you're describing. Without some ground rules though, it's been my experience that those scenarios don't do well. As soon as one vigilante starts to disagree with another, things can go sour fast. Suddenly, the other character is a criminal as well, and everyone is gunning for one another.

 

The closest thing I can think of to what you're describing is (honestly) The A-Team. Sounds silly, but these guys share a common goal, "Do Good", and have elaborate plans for dealing with bad guys (with an obligatory montage of course). If you were to change the tone- and give them guns that actually hit- you might have what you're looking for.

[Susano]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

I'll also point out that building Marv and Dwight on less than 200 points is rough. Both characters have a good physical stats, numerous skills, martial arts and other combat skills, and in Marv's case, nigh-on to superhuman levels of strength, endurance, and wall climbing.

[pinecone]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

As a new member I came off a bit strong, but, it cleared the cobwebs out of my head.

 

To the point I was throwing rocks at the glass house of point levels and in particular low point characters vs power gamer point levels...well I still seek the lower point levels for my games but I do appreciate the high level characters; in someone else's game

 

Street Sweepers...plain clothes, underground supers who cruise the alleys, docks, slums, warehouse districts, and the industrial zones cleaning up the trash.

 

Sin City is a good example of the theme I am looking to paint. A modern pulp hero. The best part being the times that the sweepers meet and deal with situations that are beyond their resources...running into the big villain who is ducking the radar, catching the evil agency with their pants down as they are bringing in the big shipment, or the like.

 

In the end I think I prefer the interaction and reaction of the players/characters to having to deal with a situation with teamwork, planning, and thinking rather than picking which power to use for the moment.

 

Anyway...Street Sweepers, Janitors, Cleaners, or whatever you want to call them...does this style/theme appeal to you?

 

Do you prefer the costumes, four-five color, with big points and if so why? This is not a my way your way kind of thing, more of a curious issue of the seaming need for mega levels of points.

 

Do super heroes need to be gods?

 

 

I can see the concept of ultra high point levels/characters having a place in a comic book world but I do not see the need for all characters to be that level.

 

I like the idea of blue collar super heroes...tradesmen, professionals, craftsmen, union card holding members with a license to kick evil's dirty a s s.

 

Does this do anything for you or am I alone...fighting the good fight without hope of backup?

 

Atomic Ray

 

"Sreet level" supers is a personal favorite....but lot's o'folks don't like it.....

[pinecone]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

For me "Street level" supers is DC With the super powers, but it's more of a "people with powers" vibe.....they do not overshadow normal interactions.

 

It really is a casre of finding a good group of people though. I've seen both 4 color and Dark champs games a plenty where "teamwork" is a skill you purchase.

 

The group coordinates by all charging the same direction (at most), and planning? Investigation? Surely you jest!

[Atomic Ray]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Street Level super heroes...to answer a question I would say the hero with powers is a super...Batman is a super, a gageteer...a scanner has super powers...but all of this is just moot gesturing...

 

Lower power levels does not have to mean 75-100pts. I can fully appreciate raw points and reasonable application points...I was looking back through characters from my collection and 250pts is about average.

 

Compared to a noted 600pt character where the player felt cheated and needed more points...I am at a loss for words on that one...but 200-250pts would be quite low in that case; 600pts indeed.

 

Back to point...Street Sweepers seems like a good starting point for a game, for me.

 

I mentioned Sin City to set a mood and picture more than anything else, not a direct comparison. A modern Shadow would be a great starter, the larger than life super hero with hundreds of informants, agents, etc...the players could be members within such a grouping.

 

But I will take all the useful input to heart and build on it, thanks again.

 

Atomic Ray

[Hagadorn]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

A character is only as powerful as a DM lets it be.

 

You can have a character with 1,000pts. But he won't be a god if he's limited to 40 active point limit.

 

Its taken a good 3 months of play time to get my DM to let me increase my Character's dex by a full point. (1 point a month. until i finally ticked over from 21 to 22. Yay)

 

If you ever have a player complaining about not enough points, and I meand REALLY whinging or bitching.

 

Slap them.

 

Hard.

 

Either they'll leave or shut up. Either is good.

[Vulcan]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Before you say the Shadow would be perfect, sit down and build him. See how many points you end up with. The contacts and bases alone might kill your point limits.

[Susano]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Here's one that was sent to me:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsassorted/theshadow.html

[Atomic Ray]

Re: Street Sweepers

 

Before you say the Shadow would be perfect' date=' sit down and build him. See how many points you end up with. The contacts and bases alone might kill your point limits.[/quote']

 

I completely agree that is why I mentioned the Shadow as being a central contact or boss NPC, this would allow for the players to ebb and flow characters in and out of sessions based upon the current mission at hand.

 

The Shadow would have many points, but realistically he is the leader/manager of a large agency so they would not all be his points.

 

But truly the actual shadow character would have a bunch of points to make him work to the comic book standards.

 

Atomic Ray