Sean Waters Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 So, I was blibbling away the other day on the boards opining that one of the things we ought to be able to do with Hero is build other games. So I did. Can I present a complete Superhero Character Generation and Rule Set based on Hero? We shall see... I've called it Champions Of The Unknown! or COTU! and the character generation system is based on Hero, but with all the construction numbers taken away. The rules are pretty close to Hero, with some amendments, and I've used Hero terminology where I've felt able. The whole thing fits into 5 pages, with another page for the charcter sheet and someone picking it up for the first time should have their first character ready to go in less than 10 minutes (and probably less than a 2 minutes once you are familiar with character generation). I'm absolutely and categorically NOT suggesting this should be the future of Hero, in fact the whole point of the exercise is to show how flexible Hero is in that it can create a game that you'd have a job knowing WAS Hero under the bonnet. However I tell you what, it has helped me to clarify my thinking on some points, and those are where I've depared from Canon Hero a bit. Here's the highlights. 1. Success is based on the Hero Combat model: Roll 3d6, try and beat a number, add a bonus based on characteristics and subtract a penalty based on the opponent's characteristic. The same applies for skill checks, so we have one unified mechanic for succeeding at a task. I've made it roll high rather than low, and that is just a matter of personal preference - but also because I wanted as few ideas in there as possible, and 'high=good' is a single principle that was going to apply to damage in any event. 2. Everything (skills and combat) are based on CHA/5 (not CHA/3 for combat). This was a practical decision more than anything else because of the character generation system it was easier to simplify if we were only ever dividing by one number. I chose /5 but you could do it based on /3 if you like. 3. I've divided 'active' characteristics up into 4 groups, based on PRE/5 (which I've called Appeal), STR/5 (which I've called Brawn), INT or EGO/5 (which I've called Cognition) and DEX/5 (which I've called Dexterity). I've done this so that we get four categories of Ability Modifiers A, B, C and D, which i thought had a pleasing ring to it. 4. I changed the way we do Body damage, basing it on (Stun through Defences)/5. Again this was a practical decision because I wanted there to be some possibility of lethality but as I was only really using normal attacks that was never going to happen using standard Hero rules. 5. The Character Generation is a series of picks, with each pick having the same point cost: Hero Template (144 points), Offensive Power (40 points), Movement Power (20 points), Defensive Power (30 points), Skill Set (9 points) and Disadvantage Set (about 25 points). Basically these are 233 point characters (no magic - just how it worked out). There are 6 stages to pick at and 4 choices in each pick, so there are 4096 possible SPBs, which is nie as int he Game World you get a SPB in about 1 in 165000 people, so there are just over 4000 of them in the world. 6. The idea is that this is a simple pick-up game with very little depth that introduces some of the ideas of Hero without any of the richness and complexity - hopefully if anyone likes it enough to look deeper they get pulled in to Hero itself. I can post the workings and power set builds if anyone is interested. It started off as a seperate document in some detail and got real scrappy toward the end I'd welcome any comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! You ate my brain. I want it back, please. Just kidding. I would rep you if I could, but apparently I can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! I'd welcome any comments. Is this what has kept you so quiet? Are there other challenges we can give you?? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! Is this what has kept you so quiet? Are there other challenges we can give you?? Doc Hardy har har. It's only been a couple of days. Did you miss me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! Hardy har har. It's only been a couple of days. Did you miss me? I always miss you when you're not here Sean - I look forward to seeing your name appear in threads. Not so sure when you're in a rampant phase though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! So is it Cognition and Dexterity, or Coordination and Discernment? o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! So is it Cognition and Dexterity' date=' or Coordination and Discernment? o_O[/quote'] It WAS Coordination and Discernment, but it is now Cognition and Dexterity, because I thought it was nicer that way round, although I obviously didn't actually read it after making the chage, did I? I'll get that...(and thanks for spotting it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! I'd welcome any comments. Lets start with something irrelevant. Why 1 in 1,650,000, why not 'less than 1 in a million leaving fewer than 4000 SPBs in the world'....? I prefer Appeal, Brawn, Cognition and Dexterity to AMA, AMB, AMC and AMD. More evocative. Beyond that I think it'd make an excellent little game to play... Well done. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! Lets start with something irrelevant. Why 1 in 1' date='650,000, why not 'less than 1 in a million leaving fewer than 4000 SPBs in the world'....?[/quote'] Expansion packs Not really - I just worked out there were 4096 possible build combinations and divided that into the current world population. In practice no one but Killer Shrike is ever going to need even a fraction of the total possible builds Seriously though, this only uses a tiny fraction of the glory that is Hero, and gives you thousands of build options. You could very easily expand each tier to eight options, or add more build tiers, and still only be scratching the surface. That's not really the point though - I doubt any more development time is going into this one, but it is nice to see how the system can be used, how we can hide the mechanics, including the character construction (which often, rightly, takes centre stage) and still have something that hangs together and works. It has also been useful to look at the common threads in Hero. Looking forward to 6th edition I would like to see the core concepts of Hero streamlined whilst the possible uses the toolset can be put to substantially expanded. I prefer Appeal' date=' Brawn, Cognition and Dexterity to AMA, AMB, AMC and AMD. More evocative.[/quote'] I prefered that too! Beyond that I think it'd make an excellent little game to play... Well done. Doc Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! Just a quick comment: instead of rolling 3d6, adding your value, subtracting their value, and seeing if you got 10 or more, why not roll 3d6, add your value, and compare it to 10 + their value? Seems to me that that's the big draw for rolling high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Re: Cotu! Just a quick comment: instead of rolling 3d6' date=' adding your value, subtracting their value, and seeing if you got 10 or more, why not roll 3d6, add your value, and compare it to 10 + their value? Seems to me that that's the big draw for rolling high.[/quote'] That makes a lot of sense from the 'actually finishing this fight tonight' school of role playing Anything for an easy life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! I'd welcome any comments. If I give you another three days, would you come back with a nicer character sheet? It is very....functional! Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! If I give you another three days, would you come back with a nicer character sheet? It is very....functional! Doc Oh good grief.... Will this do? (mutter mutter 3 days mutter...trying to get rid or me mutter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! Oh good grief.... Will this do? (mutter mutter 3 days mutter...trying to get rid or me mutter) Getting better. You do know that colour is free in electronic documents? If I get time this week I will try to have a go at doing this in colour.... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! Getting better. You do know that colour is free in electronic documents? If I get time this week I will try to have a go at doing this in colour.... Doc My ISP charges extra for colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-M Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! Wow, Sean -- very cool! I've been wanting to do something like this for years, and recently considered throwing together an Avatar the Last Airbender game based along just this sort of pick-and-play, based-on-HERO model -- but I was just plain scared that I would be biting off more than I could chew. I can't wait to check out what you've done in more detail. I may actually try to run this on an off-night with the 4e D&D group I'm playing in (they're a bunch of points-buy chickens at this point -- these lazy kids, I tell ya!). If I manage to swing that, I'll report back. I can post the workings and power set builds if anyone is interested. It started off as a seperate document in some detail and got real scrappy toward the end I would love to see that if you care to post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! Oh good grief.... Will this do? "You're on FIRE!" I LOVE it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! ................ I would love to see that if you care to post it. Thank you for your positive comments - but I have no idea how it will play in practice - hopefully OK. Here's the notes I made while I was doing it with some explanatory bits. Like I said it gets a bit scrappy toward the end and I did not cost out the disadvantages as I did not want to get into the mechanics of them - just the look and feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! Nicely done! I've made something vaguely similar before on the character creation. I didn't change anything about the rules set, but made character creation templates that you could combine for various types of characters. Basically I had some basic templates (sort of a starting "class" or "concept") that used up all or most of the points available for character creation, then had other flavor templates that could be added on (e.g. "fast", "cunning", "brawny") and each had a net cost of zero because of bonuses and penalties. It was meant as a quick way to build characters, not as a rigid set of choices. This was for a heroic level game so it didn't make much use of Powers (I think I had one or two custom-built Talents though), so that made things a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Re: Cotu! Here is a quick effort at a more colourful character sheet.... It's a bit blue but I was limited to using the presentation element of open office.... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Cotu! Something I've been wanting to see, kudos, Sean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Cotu! Here is a quick effort at a more colourful character sheet.... It's a bit blue but I was limited to using the presentation element of open office.... Doc That's really great. I see what you mean about colour The BLAM! and POW! really make it. Very impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Cotu! Something I've been wanting to see' date=' kudos, Sean![/quote'] Long time no see! Thank you for your kind words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Cotu! That's really great. I see what you mean about colour The BLAM! and POW! really make it. Very impressed. That's a very quick effort. I would get my friend to have a look he's got a really good eye for design and the page would look fantastic. I'm amazed that companies do not put more effort into their character sheets - they are the interface through which every player accesses the game. As such they can invoke so much genre feel that I think it is criminal when they become nothing more than a collection of numbers on a page.... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Cotu! That's a very quick effort. I would get my friend to have a look he's got a really good eye for design and the page would look fantastic. I'm amazed that companies do not put more effort into their character sheets - they are the interface through which every player accesses the game. As such they can invoke so much genre feel that I think it is criminal when they become nothing more than a collection of numbers on a page.... Doc That is a very nice point. The character sheet should be a carefully cradted thing: it evokes the game, it should make playing it easier and more enjoyable. As you may have guessed it is not something I necessarily spend a lot of time on myself, but I can certainly see the value of doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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