Malazan Hero

[Shadowsoul]

Just continuing a conversation from another thread although people are welcome to comment.

 

Once I've finished my MA Dissertation I'm going to have a go at converting the Malazan world to Hero. Complete with magic, powerful NPCs and monsters, thoughts on campaign tone and lots of package deals.

 

In the meantime I'll post some thoughts on the Tiste races when I have the chance.

 

At Sgt Pedro's suggestion I've edited this post to warn readers that this thread will contain spoilers.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Malazan?

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Just continuing a conversation from another thread although people are welcome to comment.

 

Once I've finished my MA Dissertation I'm going to have a go at converting the Malazan world to Hero. Complete with magic, powerful NPCs and monsters, thoughts on campaign tone and lots of package deals.

 

In the meantime I'll post some thoughts on the Tiste races when I have the chance.

 

 

What is Malazan, what are the Tiste races, and what MA Dissertation?

[Savinien]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

I am soooo in this Shadowsoul!

 

Love the Malazan: Book of the Fallen.

 

Only read the first few by Erikson so far.

 

There are existing threads in this sub-forum on the subject, but the material isn't much.

[Savinien]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

I see you were active in both Shadowsoul.

 

Here are some links for the neophytes so we don't need to retread anything:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56413&highlight=malazan

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60113&highlight=malazan

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Yeah a couple of people have posted a few thoughts and then just stopped. I even commented on one or two threads but if they got anywhere then they don't seem to have shared it with the forum as a whole.

 

For those who are confused the Malazan world was created by two authors, one of whom is writing the main 10 book story arc while the other has done a few shorter novels looking at other parts of the world's history. I believe they've divided up the characters and events between them.

 

Steven Erikson is the main author and his books are arguably the best epic fantasy of the 21st century. For that matter they'd give the classics from the 20th century a run for their money as well.

 

Erikson is an archaeologist among other things and this really shows in his work. Certain characters and races transcend immense stretches of time and there is a rather gloomy mood to the world, a feeling that everything will fade or fail in time. But it's not too depressing because it's so refreshingly unique.

 

For more on the setting itself the Wikipedia article is pretty extensive. Of course the best way to learn about it would be to pick up the first book, 'Gardens of the Moon'.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Oh and the dissertation is called 'Cultural Conflict and the English Eighteenth-Century Theatre' since you did ask Gregg. Unless you have an enthusiasm for Early Modern social or cultural history I doubt that you'll want to hear any more about it.

[Legatus]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Great idea, of course I'm in.

 

Got some questions:

How tall is Karsa Orlong? I estimate him at 8 1/2 feet.

How tall is Mappo? Are Trells taller or smaller than Humans. I know they are broader!

How powerful are Forkrul Assail? They scare the heck outta me.

 

And what was your most favourite scene? Mine: when Icarium set foot on the Lether continent and an eartquake took place, because the land knew, it would soon be changed forever.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Great idea, of course I'm in.

 

Got some questions:

How tall is Karsa Orlong? I estimate him at 8 1/2 feet.

How tall is Mappo? Are Trells taller or smaller than Humans. I know they are broader!

How powerful are Forkrul Assail? They scare the heck outta me.

 

And what was your most favourite scene? Mine: when Icarium set foot on the Lether continent and an eartquake took place, because the land knew, it would soon be changed forever.

 

I think you are probably about right for Karsa. He initially refers to humans as 'children' but has proved capable of mating with a human woman without causing her lasting harm so he can't be that big.

 

Trell are if anything shorter than humans I think.

 

There are so many good moments in the series, not sure if I can pick one. Perhaps when the Crimson Guard turn up in 'Gardens of the Moon' and manage to surprise the Tiste Andi who have been terrifyingly powerful up to that point. That may have been when I began to get an inkling of just how many layers there were to this world.

[Spence]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

For those that want to know, the series has 8 books so far. I have read through Reaper’s Gale. I think it is one of the best series for fantasy in decades. It interweaves multiple characters from wildly different power levels and makes it work. From Gods all the way down to the average foot soldier.

 

Gardens of the Moon (1999)

Deadhouse Gates (2000)

Memories of Ice (2001)

House of Chains (2002)

Midnight Tides (2004)

The Bonehunters (2006)

Reaper's Gale (2007)

Toll the Hounds (2008)

Dust of Dreams (forthcoming)

The Crippled God (forthcoming)

 

I am really looking forward to seeing the conversion.

[Legatus]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

There are so many good moments in the series, not sure if I can pick one. Perhaps when the Crimson Guard turn up in 'Gardens of the Moon' and manage to surprise the Tiste Andi who have been terrifyingly powerful up to that point. That may have been when I began to get an inkling of just how many layers there were to this world.

 

The Crimson Guard was in Gardens of the Moon?

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Briefly. One of them encountered Adjunct Lorn while some more managed to jump Korlat and co. and told them to stop their killing spree.

[Legatus]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

These books are so complicated. Now I must go and search for the right page...

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Thoughts on the Tiste Andi.

 

Description: The Tiste Andi are the People of Darkness. Although they now inhabit the human world they were born in the alien realm of Kurals Galain, (the Elder Warren of Darkness), and can all claim descent from the Elder Goddess known as Mother Dark. Alas Mother Dark has turned away from her children and they are left to wander the world without succour and without hope of an afterlife except as a restless ghost. (It is unknown whether Andi souls are destroyed upon death or if they simply wait in limbo for their mother to relent). Years ago many thousands of Andi died in wars with the Eleint, (dragons), with the Elder race known as the K'chain Che'Malle and with the other Tiste races. Most of the surviving Tiste Andi now serve their greatest living Ascendant, (god), Anomander Rake and live a nomadic life aboard the immense flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. These Andi are mercenaries of the spirit, they join worthy causes in an attempt to fight off the ennui of the ages.

 

Tiste Andi have jet black skin and almond shaped eyes, their hair is usually either silver or white but there are apparently cases of red hair. They are slightly taller than humans. They can interbreed with humans.

 

When I came to write them I realised that the Andi are really not that different to humans when it comes to racial abilities.

 

Physically they are tall and elegant so I've given them a bonus to Dex. 'Toll The Hounds' confirms that the eyes of the Andi are not troubled by darkness so they get Nightvision. Whether they are immortal or just immensely long lived is immaterial in terms of the Hero System. It should be noted however that Andi without Draconic blood will not live so long or will at least age at a faster rate.

 

'Toll the Hounds' also confirmed that even young Tiste Andi are inherently depressive people.

 

Characteristics

 

+2 Dex 4 points.

 

 

Powers.

 

Nightvision 5 points.

 

Life Support; Longevity - Immortal 5 points.

 

Total Cost = 14.

 

Disadvantages.

 

Psy. Lim. Gloomy, introspective and apathetic. -10.

 

Final Cost = 4.

 

 

These racial abilities do not tell the whole story however.

 

A Tiste Andi of Moon's Spawn will have spent many years fighting for various causes and so should have the following skills either in addition to or instead of the normal Everyman abilities. Whether these abilities are free or not is up to the individual GM.

 

AK: (Player's Choice) 11-

AK: (Player's Choice) 11-

CK: Moon's Spawn 11-

KS: Legends of the Tiste 11-

PS: Warrior 11-

WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons

 

I've added some optional disadvantages which may apply to a particular Tiste Andi.

 

Psychological Limitation: Hates Tiste Liosan (Uncommon, Strong)

Psychological Limitation: Hates Tiste Edur (Uncommon, Strong)

Distinctive Features: Tiste Andi Features. (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)

Physical Limitation: Child of Darkness (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)

 

The last disadvantage simulates the fact that Tiste Andi are linked to Kurald Galain and may well suffer when it suffers. This is only likely to be a problem if an Andi is caught somewhere were the Warren of Darkness is being assailed by an inimicable power.

 

It is unclear whether there are noncombatant Andi living in Moon's Spawn but it is safe to assume that any Andi who does specialise in warfare will be very accomplished after centuries of battle. The same applies to magical skill and in fact any other ability. However, various encounters in the books suggest that certain Ascendants and even some mortals are quite capable of matching even the greatest of Tiste Andi.

 

But while humans have just as much potential you just don't seem to see Tiste Andi who aren't dangerous. So instead of giving them automatic CSLs etc I would simply advise GMs not to create Tiste Andi characters of less than 75 points or so unless they are simple footsoldiers or very young. That is an absolute minimum, anyone good enough to get even close to Anomander Rake's inner circle should be at least 150 points.

 

Thoughts on that?

[Sgt_Pedro]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

To anyone who hasn't read this series: Do so.

 

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this one, providing input when I can.

 

One thing though, should you throw a spoiler warning in the first thread maybe?

 

On Karsa: I've been torn as to the height of the Toblakai for a while. When he gets his prologue at the beginning of House of Chains, he jumps a city wall with his horse. I "think" they might have mentioned the height of a Jhag horse at the end of the book, I'll have to go back and check. But if they gave a "hands" height, we could estimate the height from the ratio from a normal horse maybe?

[Sgt_Pedro]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Thoughts on the Tiste Andi.

 

Description: The Tiste Andi are the People of Darkness. Although they now inhabit the human world they were born in the alien realm of Kurals Galain, (the Elder Warren of Darkness), and can all claim descent from the Elder Goddess known as Mother Dark. Alas Mother Dark has turned away from her children and they are left to wander the world without succour and without hope of an afterlife except as a restless ghost. (It is unknown whether Andi souls are destroyed upon death or if they simply wait in limbo for their mother to relent). Years ago many thousands of Andi died in wars with the Eleint, (dragons), with the Elder race known as the K'chain Che'Malle and with the other Tiste races. Most of the surviving Tiste Andi now serve their greatest living Ascendant, (god), Anomander Rake and live a nomadic life aboard the immense flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. These Andi are mercenaries of the spirit, they join worthy causes in an attempt to fight off the ennui of the ages.

 

Tiste Andi have jet black skin and almond shaped eyes, their hair is usually either silver or white but there are apparently cases of red hair. They are slightly taller than humans. They can interbreed with humans.

 

When I came to write them I realised that the Andi are really not that different to humans when it comes to racial abilities.

 

Physically they are tall and elegant so I've given them a bonus to Dex. 'Toll The Hounds' confirms that the eyes of the Andi are not troubled by darkness so they get Nightvision. Whether they are immortal or just immensely long lived is immaterial in terms of the Hero System. It should be noted however that Andi without Draconic blood will not live so long or will at least age at a faster rate.

 

'Toll the Hounds' also confirmed that even young Tiste Andi are inherently depressive people.

 

Characteristics

 

+2 Dex 4 points.

 

 

Powers.

 

Nightvision 5 points.

 

Life Support; Longevity - Immortal 5 points.

 

Total Cost = 14.

 

Disadvantages.

 

Psy. Lim. Gloomy, introspective and apathetic. -10.

 

Final Cost = 4.

 

 

These racial abilities do not tell the whole story however.

 

A Tiste Andi of Moon's Spawn will have spent many years fighting for various causes and so should have the following skills either in addition to or instead of the normal Everyman abilities. Whether these abilities are free or not is up to the individual GM.

 

AK: (Player's Choice) 11-

AK: (Player's Choice) 11-

CK: Moon's Spawn 11-

KS: Legends of the Tiste 11-

PS: Warrior 11-

WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons

 

I've added some optional disadvantages which may apply to a particular Tiste Andi.

 

Psychological Limitation: Hates Tiste Liosan (Uncommon, Strong)

Psychological Limitation: Hates Tiste Edur (Uncommon, Strong)

Distinctive Features: Tiste Andi Features. (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)

Physical Limitation: Child of Darkness (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)

 

The last disadvantage simulates the fact that Tiste Andi are linked to Kurald Galain and may well suffer when it suffers. This is only likely to be a problem if an Andi is caught somewhere were the Warren of Darkness is being assailed by an inimicable power.

 

It is unclear whether there are noncombatant Andi living in Moon's Spawn but it is safe to assume that any Andi who does specialise in warfare will be very accomplished after centuries of battle. The same applies to magical skill and in fact any other ability. However, various encounters in the books suggest that certain Ascendants and even some mortals are quite capable of matching even the greatest of Tiste Andi.

 

But while humans have just as much potential you just don't seem to see Tiste Andi who aren't dangerous. So instead of giving them automatic CSLs etc I would simply advise GMs not to create Tiste Andi characters of less than 75 points or so unless they are simple footsoldiers or very young. That is an absolute minimum, anyone good enough to get even close to Anomander Rake's inner circle should be at least 150 points.

 

Thoughts on that?

 

Anomader Rake is 7 feet tall. Along with descriptions of some of the others, I'd say they're a good bit taller than humans on average, 4-6" at least. I would assume there are a large number of non-combatants because:

 

 

During the fight at the First Throne on the floating island, where Crokus and Apsalar are fighting the Edur alongside Rake's brother, there are "Young" Andii who haven't seen much (if any) combat. Also, Rake talks several times about settling his people on Moon's Spawn in the city of Coral. We also know the Tiste Edur still breed, albeit slowly, from the events in Midnight Tides.

 

 

I'm about to start Bonehunter's myself. I read the first 3 books as they were printed in the US, and recently reread them all up to where I am now. These would make the top of any favorites list I made.

 

Not my favorite moment in the series (that would be one of Kalam's moments, or perhaps something during the Chain of Dogs), but one that stands out as I write this:

 

 

When Brys Beddict finally gets his moment in the spotlight against the Edur, in the throne room. Erikson has a fantastic ability to despict and glorify the proficient swordsman. Fear Sengar's ruminations on his performance are particularly badass.

 

[Legatus]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Tiste Andii:

-Eye colour changes with mood: is that true for all Tiste Andii or only for Anomander?

 

Size of Karsa:

- as we get no fact, we can only try to calculate it:

 

- when Karsa and Torvald Nom get into the flooded sphere, the water reaches Torvald's chest, while it would only reach Karsa's waist:

-assuming Torvald is of average height (by modern standards: 180cm), the water would be 130 cm high

- if a Teblor had the same propotions as a human, Karsa would be 234 cm

 

- when Karsa swims away with Borrug, Borrug's head lies on his shoulders, while his knees hit Karsa's thighs

- again assuming 180cm for Borrug's height, he'd be 130cm from knees to head

- mid-thighs to shoulder is 4/9th of total height

- so Karsa would 292,5cm

 

- in House of Chains it is said, that he is as tall as two Dal Honese combined (minimum 300-320cm; 350cm more likely)

 

- in Bonehunters it is said, that he is one and a half times as tall as a normal man (approx. 270cm)

 

 

Original size of the Thelomen Toblakai:

- Kalam finds the body of a true Thelomen Toblakai on the bottom of a well

- this giant warrior is three times as tall as a human (minimum 500cm)

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Anomader Rake is 7 feet tall. Along with descriptions of some of the others, I'd say they're a good bit taller than humans on average, 4-6" at least. I would assume there are a large number of non-combatants because:

 

 

During the fight at the First Throne on the floating island, where Crokus and Apsalar are fighting the Edur alongside Rake's brother, there are "Young" Andii who haven't seen much (if any) combat. Also, Rake talks several times about settling his people on Moon's Spawn in the city of Coral. We also know the Tiste Edur still breed, albeit slowly, from the events in Midnight Tides.

 

 

I'm about to start Bonehunter's myself. I read the first 3 books as they were printed in the US, and recently reread them all up to where I am now. These would make the top of any favorites list I made.

 

Not my favorite moment in the series (that would be one of Kalam's moments, or perhaps something during the Chain of Dogs), but one that stands out as I write this:

 

 

When Brys Beddict finally gets his moment in the spotlight against the Edur, in the throne room. Erikson has a fantastic ability to despict and glorify the proficient swordsman. Fear Sengar's ruminations on his performance are particularly badass.

 

 

I'd reserve judgement on the young Tiste Andi until you read Toll the Hounds. Although I will agree that young and untrained Andi are possible.

 

[Legatus]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Will you post a write-up of Anomander?

That would be a task! A mighty callenge! If you can do it, you are the !

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

After the 17th I may just take you up on that one.

 

In the mean time I've been thinking about Malazan martial arts. The books do not tend to name different styles and I different ways of fighting are not emphasised much although some characters are very distinctive in how they fight.

 

Nonetheless there are a lot of extremely skillful warriors in the Malazan world and I don't think CSLs will cover that on their own. Some warriors simply have their own unique style, (I can't imagine many people fight like Karsa Orlong), but there are certainly martial traditions.

 

So here is a tentative list of some Malazan martial traditions. Titles are applied to particular styles rather than being taken from the books.

 

Barghast Berserking - Axes, Clubs, Broadswords.

 

Claw Combat Doctrine - Pair of Longknives, Pair of Daggers.

Can simulate other assassin's abilities such as Daru Assassins, Talons and Tiste Andi Nighthunters.

 

Daru Fencing. Rapier.

 

Edur Traditions - Hiroth - Spear.

Merude - Cutlass.

Arapay - Throwing Axe. (Unlikely to be a martial art).

Spear fighting may well be more than the Hiroth's special weapon. The Hiroth Trull Sengar wields a spear but it is referred to as a weapon particular to him. The Merude chieftain also uses a spear.

The Merude cutlass has a bell guard equipped with numerous protrusions for catching blades. It should grant +1 OCV to Disarm and Weapon Bind attacks.

 

Fener's Doctrine - Sword, Shield, Lasso.

Style of the Grey Swords. I'll have to check the specifics when I have time. Teamwork is definitely a prerequisite skill.

 

Malazan Marine Training - Broadsword and shield.

In fact this fighting style is common to all Malazan troops but Marines are more likely to develop great skill in it. This would be the standard Bridgeburner Martial Art of course.

 

Seguleh Swordcraft - Swords.

Most other sword arts are probably a pale reflection of the Seguleh skills.

 

Seven Cities Raiding - Tulwar, Lance. (Mounted Martial Art).

 

Imass Lore - Flint Great Sword.

 

Presumably the Andi and Liosan have their own traditions or styles as do the Rhivi, Azalan, Wickans, Teblor, Red Blades, Letheri, Jheck, Jaghut, Pannions, Shake, Falari, Ken'Ryllah, Moranth, Forkrul Assail (Heaven forbid), K'Chain Che'Malle, Trell, Dal Honese, Gadrobi, Genebarii, Meckros, Napans, Khundryl, Semk, Gral and sundry others.

 

If anyone wants to write up any of these martial traditions then that would be great. Any comments on what I've gathered so far would also be welcome.

[Savinien]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

On Karsa: I've been torn as to the height of the Toblakai for a while. When he gets his prologue at the beginning of House of Chains' date=' he jumps a city wall with his horse. I "think" they might have mentioned the height of a Jhag horse at the end of the book, I'll have to go back and check. But if they gave a "hands" height, we could estimate the height from the ratio from a normal horse maybe?[/quote']

 

I haven't finished the book where we might the Teblor, but I recall his horse being 26 hands. A 'hand' is 4 inches and most horses (not percherons or draft) are about 16 or 17 hands. So, that is a big friggin' horse!

[Savinien]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Barghast Berserking - Axes, Clubs, Broadswords.

 

Claw Combat Doctrine - Pair of Longknives, Pair of Daggers.

Can simulate other assassin's abilities such as Daru Assassins, Talons and Tiste Andi Nighthunters.

 

Daru Fencing. Rapier.

 

Edur Traditions - Hiroth - Spear.

Merude - Cutlass.

Arapay - Throwing Axe. (Unlikely to be a martial art).

Spear fighting may well be more than the Hiroth's special weapon. The Hiroth Trull Sengar wields a spear but it is referred to as a weapon particular to him. The Merude chieftain also uses a spear.

The Merude cutlass has a bell guard equipped with numerous protrusions for catching blades. It should grant +1 OCV to Disarm and Weapon Bind attacks.

 

Fener's Doctrine - Sword, Shield, Lasso.

Style of the Grey Swords. I'll have to check the specifics when I have time. Teamwork is definitely a prerequisite skill.

 

Malazan Marine Training - Broadsword and shield.

In fact this fighting style is common to all Malazan troops but Marines are more likely to develop great skill in it. This would be the standard Bridgeburner Martial Art of course.

 

Seguleh Swordcraft - Swords.

Most other sword arts are probably a pale reflection of the Seguleh skills.

 

Seven Cities Raiding - Tulwar, Lance. (Mounted Martial Art).

 

Imass Lore - Flint Great Sword.

 

Presumably the Andi and Liosan have their own traditions or styles as do the Rhivi, Azalan, Wickans, Teblor, Red Blades, Letheri, Jheck, Jaghut, Pannions, Shake, Falari, Ken'Ryllah, Moranth, Forkrul Assail (Heaven forbid), K'Chain Che'Malle, Trell, Dal Honese, Gadrobi, Genebarii, Meckros, Napans, Khundryl, Semk, Gral and sundry others.

 

If anyone wants to write up any of these martial traditions then that would be great. Any comments on what I've gathered so far would also be welcome.

 

The Rhivi use bows from horseback quite well. Sorry I don't have much more to add at this point. I will be keeping an eye on the thread and when I get time, will be more dilligent with aide.

[Legatus]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

I haven't finished the book where we might the Teblor' date=' but I recall his horse being 26 hands. A 'hand' is 4 inches and most horses (not percherons or draft) are about 16 or 17 hands. So, that is a big friggin' horse![/quote']

 

26 hands is big, but horses almost as tall even exist today:

 

but what if a hand does not mean 4 inches but instead it is a measure used by the Teblor (and therefore using standard size of Teblor hands): now that would be big

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

Hmmm. Teblor cavalry.

[Savinien]

Re: Malazan Hero

 

26 hands is big, but horses almost as tall even exist today:

 

but what if a hand does not mean 4 inches but instead it is a measure used by the Teblor (and therefore using standard size of Teblor hands): now that would be big

 

I don't have sound but have ridden horses all of my life and my parents still breed and trade them. That horse is about 18 hands, maybe 20. Picture another two feet on it.

 

And, perhaps you're correct. Why would the Teblor use children's hands for measurement?