Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

[Metaphysician]

Through some hijinks involving time travel, a cosmic plot device, and a few random passing space gods, Doctor Destroyer, from the 20th century, and Sovereign, of the 30th, end up in a fight. Both sides have some time to prepare, but neither has functional access to outside resources ( presume whatever minions, vehicles, and such on each side are otherwise occupied ).

 

Battle takes place in, say, a deserted 24th century city on Earth.

 

Who wins?

 

( for the purpose of this thread, presume CKC stats for Dr Destroyer, since its unlikely most have seen the BotD stats yet, and Sovereign hasn't gotten an update yet )

[CoreBrute]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

I have read Book of the Destroyer and even without I can tell you this. Dr Desatroyer would wipe the floor with the pansy a** Psychic. His nobless oblige, while similar to Destroyer would only infuriate him further.

 

He has defense against such mental tricks, and he can make new weapons specifically for this upstart. (All though Destroyer will need to watch out for that absorbed energy blast. He doesn't want his own attack reflected back at him. It's powerful for a reason.)

 

While the technology is very advanced, Destroyer could easily over power it, and use it for his own weapons. Needless to say after the battle the scraps of Soverign's technology would lead to a new galactic age of Destroyer!

 

Of course that's just my opinion.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

I give it to Destroyer by a very, very wide margin...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

Destroyer is far more powerful than Sovereign, and while Sovereign's psionic powers might give the Doctor pause if they encountered each other unexpectedly, since you specify that each would have "some time to prepare," DD would use his VPP to augment his mental defenses, as his CKC write-up specifies he would do when expecting to face Menton.

 

Frankly, much as I like Sovereign he's out of his league against Dr. Destroyer.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

Sovereign is very cool.And totally out of his league.

Unless he used his VPP to create a ray that turned Destroyer into a sofa.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

Not the dreaded Sofa Ray!

[OddHat]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

They team up, attempt to conquer All of Time And Space, almost succeed, and are defeated by a GM gimmee that doesn't hold up to close inspection.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

"Deus Ex Ultimate Nullifier"

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

Yeah, what did happen to the Mandragalore after the Galactic Champions 3000 spanked Istvatha V'han with it?

[brionl]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

I don't think CKC Dr Destroyer would have much problem with Sovereign going Mano a Mano.

 

Now a more interesting matchup would be Book of the Destroyer Dr Destroyer going up against Mechanon 3000. Those two going at it would be more on the scale of interplanetary war than a battle though.

[bubba smith]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

the only soveriegn i know of is the evil version of tv's hercules

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

the only soveriegn i know of is the evil version of tv's hercules

 

That's kind of a sad statement, actually.

 

 

The particular Sovereign being discussed is from the Galactic Champions supplement. He's an elder member of the ancient, advanced, psionically gifted Mandaarian race, who went kinda crackers and wants to conquer/destroy the other civilizations of the galaxy.

 

BTW Sovereign's character sheet made me seriously wonder whether the psionic minority of the Mandaarians might be their world's version of Earth's Empyreans. First time I looked at Sovereign's character sheet it practically screamed "Empyrean" to me. The lower level of personal power of the Empyreans during the Terran Empire era could be explained by the loss of magic, which would also explain why Sovereign is so much mightier than any other published Mandaarian, after the magic returns in the year 3000.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

I don't think CKC Dr Destroyer would have much problem with Sovereign going Mano a Mano.

 

Now a more interesting matchup would be Book of the Destroyer Dr Destroyer going up against Mechanon 3000. Those two going at it would be more on the scale of interplanetary war than a battle though.

 

I don't have BOTD yet... are you saying that DD in that book is more powerful than the CKC version?

[brionl]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

I don't have BOTD yet... are you saying that DD in that book is more powerful than the CKC version?

 

Yes. However, his personal power hasn't gone up that much, mostly it's in bases, followers, equipment & vehicles. There's an even MORE powerful version of him listed also, as well as the Destroyer Lite (lower powered).

 

Destroyer Lite: Characteristics Cost 408

CKC Dr D: Char Cost 489

Regular Dr D: Char Cost 539

Destroyer High Octane: Char Cost 752.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

While its true that Sovereign's psychic power MP is not going to do much to Dr Destroyer, I think you all are overlooking Sovereign's biggest trump card: his Absorbtion array.

 

Simply put, first time Destroyer hits him with any kind of physical or energy attack, Sovereign gets to add up to 28 points to four different characteristics, simultaneously, up to 48 total points added. Unless that first attack takes him down ( which is statistically unlikely even with the 30d6 EB ), Destroyer has to start figuring out how to beat someone with, say, Str 90, Dex 35, and defense totals in the 80s. . . who he still can't hit again, less those become even worse.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

Still not going to be enough, I'm afraid. Destroyer's primary Destroyer-Beam does 105 STUN Damage on average, so there's a very good chance that Destroyer will Stun Sovereign with his first hit, even without bringing in his Secondary Weapons Array in a Multiple-Power Attack. DD also has a wide array of large exotic-Defense attacks that Sovereign, at his base state, doesn't have the Defenses for: AVLD Power Defense, Sight and Hearing Flash, not to mention big Drains to counteract Sovereign's boosted Characteristics. And however Sovereign configures his own gadget pool to compensate, the Doctor's GP is bigger. Also, don't forget Destroyer's offensive Presence -- at base he has enough to make Sovereign at least hesitate, even if you don't bring his Reputation Perk into play.

 

Sorry, Meta, but Sovereign is stil out of his league in this match.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

Still not going to be enough' date=' I'm afraid. Destroyer's primary Destroyer-Beam does 105 STUN Damage on average, so there's a very good chance that Destroyer will Stun Sovereign with his first hit...[/quote']

 

Going by strictly average rolls, this is not quite true.

 

Destroyer goes first, hits on an average roll without using any levels at all, and does 30 Body and 105 stun.

 

Sovereign normally has 32 ED, but since they are prepared for each other he presumably has his "Energy Absorptive Defense" up and running already, which gives him up to 25 extra ED.

 

That reduces the shot to 48 STUN. Now his 25% Damage Reduction kicks in to decrease that to 36 STUN. Sovereign has a 38 CON so he's not Stunned. However, his is only 1 shot away from being KOed since he only has 72 STUN to begin with. Ouch!

 

Oh, and he's also Knocked Back at least 23", which is more than his full combat move... this might be more if Soverign started the battle in the air! Sovereign doesn't have enough STR or Flight to reduce KB to zero, so that's no use even trying. He doesn't have Breakfall or the Position Shift adder on his Flight, so standing back up is going to cost him a Half-Phase. I will point out, this COULD help him in a round about way as he will probably be buffed by his Kinetic Absorption if he hits anything solid. But I'm not going to try and calculate that at this point since it relies on way too many undisclosed factors.

 

I will mention that even if he puts absorbed points into DEX Destroyer can STILL hit him handily (18 max OCV vs 16 max DCV) with any of his attacks. They don't share a phase til 6, the initiative advantage isn't going to help significantly.

 

Sovereigns Psychic powers can, at best achieve an EGO+10 result. With Ego Attack he will do 8 STUN on average. His Energy Blast will do 15 and Destoyer can resist any KB with STR or Flight. His TK is mostly harmless, as it's only equal to Destroyers Casual STR.

 

If he buffs STR, he can perhaps Grab Destroyer and try to hold off defeat for a while, but that's a short term solution at best and, of course, he has to close the distance first. Difficult to do given Destroyers SPD, Flight and KB advantage.

 

Obviously, this all changes dramatically is Destroyer MPA's on his opening salvo. Sovereigns tactical options also shift depending on how he buffs using Absorption. Force Wall usage can also make a difference here. Sovereign has attacks that can fire through his own Force Wall without dropping it where as Destroyer does not. Of course, they can effortlessly knock down each others walls in a single shot, but this still helps buffer damage.

 

I'll leave the VPP's out of it for the most part, but I will note Sovereign can at least try to change his in mid combat if really need be, where as Destroyer is stuck with whatever gadgets he comes with. Sovereign also has Telepathy so he could theoretically have a very sleight intel edge. But ultimately the bigger Pool favors Destroyer and I really doubt Sovereign will get the opening to waste a full phase trying to shift points around in his gadgets.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

I'll leave the VPP's out of it for the most part' date=' but I will note Sovereign can at least try to change his in mid combat if really need be, where as Destroyer is stuck with whatever gadgets he comes with. Sovereign also has Telepathy so he could theoretically have a very sleight intel edge. But ultimately the bigger Pool favors Destroyer and I really doubt Sovereign will get the opening to waste a full phase trying to shift points around in his gadgets.[/quote']

 

Ah, I didn't notice that Sovereign had Power with his gadgets. That could definitely allow him to last longer against Destroyer if he has the chance to adjust them versus Destroyer's tactics.

 

But for Sovereign to have any chance he needs to avoid being Stunned by Destroyer's first shot, which if DD uses an MPA is very iffy.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Sovereign vs Dr Destroyer

 

That's Zertstoiten's only real chance, however. Remember, Sovereign doesn't have to choose only one stat to buff: he can buff four simultaneously, with each Absorb. Buffing PD and ED with the first absorbed attack, and the next averages 22 Stun. Not enough to Stun even against unboosted Con, and now the energy-based buffs are at their max of +48 points. At which point, the average 30d6 EB does no damage at all, if ED is buffed. This also means, btw, that knockback damage is mostly a non-issue, as if Sovereign buffs his PD as well, it won't really do anything ( except fuel further, independent, buffs ).

 

There are some ways around this defense, on its own, but most aren't especially effective here. Mental attacks bounce of Sovereign's own psychic shields, Adjustments can be readily countered by Power Defense gained through the gadget pool. High power NNDs and AVLDs are probably your best bet, if you can arrange one that bypasses Sovereign's defenses, and then hit him enough to overwhelm his boosted stats. Problem being, finding one that actually works, and then surviving long enough to wear him down. . .