Runequest Spirit Magic to Hero System

[SCUBA Hero]

The following is my attempt to recreate Runequest Spirit Magic in the Hero System. It is very much a work in progress, so suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome.

 

General:

* All characters have an END Reserve (POW)

* The REC must be bought to the same value as POW, and must take Slow Recovery (1 day) (-3). END is regained proportionately throughout the day.

* Example: Average character, POW 10 (1 point) REC 10 (Slow Recovery [1 day]) (-3) (3 points)

* END costs for casting Spirit Magic spells are forced to mirror Runequest Value by Increased or Reduced END.

* Characters may only memorize total Value equal to or less than their INT

* Spells must take the following Limitations:

(1) Activation Roll (AR) equal to POW roll as a Characteristic Roll. (e.g., POW 10 = 11- AR, POW 13 = 12- AR)

(2) Encumbrance Penalty (ENC Pen): 0-2 DEF= -0 to AR, 3-4 DEF = -1 to AR, 5-6 DEF = -2 to AR, 7-8 DEF = -3 to AR (or equivalent in other weight) (-1/4)

(3) Focus (any level; tatoos may also be taken, although no Focus Limitation is gained)

(4) Side Effects (SE): lose 1 END (-1/4)

(5) If the spell can be resisted by the target, use a POW vs. POW roll (-1/2)

 

Some Spells (all examples assuming a 10 POW and therefore 11- AR):

 

Bladesharp 1:+1 OCV, +1 DC (10); OAF Edged Weapon (-1-1/4), 1 Continuing Charge of 5 minutes (-3/4) (3)

 

Cast Bladesharp 1: UBO (+1/4) to Bladesharp 1 (4); AR 11- (-1), ENC Pen (-1/4), OAF (-1), SE (-1/4) (1) [1 END]

 

Bladesharp 2: +2 OCV, +2 DC (20); OAF Edged Weapon (-1-1/4), 1 CC 5 min (-3/4) (7)

 

Cast Bladesharp 2: UBO (+1/4) to Bladesharp 2 (9); AR 11- (-1), ENC Pen (-1/4), OAF (-1), SE (-1/4), x2 END (-1/2) (2) [2 END]

 

Disruption: 1/2d6 RKA (10); AVLD (Magic Defenses) (+1-3/4), Does BODY (+1), 0 END (actually costs 1 END) (+1/2) (40); AR 11- (-1), ENC Pen (-1/4), OIF (-1/2), SE (-1/4), Resisted (-1/2) (11) [1 END]

 

Protection 1: 1/1 Armor (3); 1 CC 5 min (-3/4) (2)

 

Cast Protection 1: UBO (+1/4) and Ranged (+1/2) to Protection 1 (3); AR 11- (-1), ENC Pen (-1/4), OIF (-1/2), SE (-1/4) (1) [1 END]

 

Protection 2: 2/2 Armor (6); 1 CC 5 min (-3/4) (3)

 

Cast Protection 2: UBO (+1/4) and Ranged (+1/2) to Protection 2 (5); AR 11- (-1), ENC Pen (-1/4), OIF (-1/2), SE (-1/4), x4 END (-1-1/2) (1) [2 END]

 

Comments:

Applying UBO to a one Continuing five-minute charge seems too cheap, but that's how FREd says to create Powers with different Power Modifiers from the Modifiers on the Power the target will use (p. 177). Of course, it's also a Stop Sign Power. . .

[RadeFox]

Spirit Magic, and especially Divine magic from RQ will, essentially be a Stop Sign power (and in some cases illegal) for Hero. This by no means, you should avoid it.

 

Magic in the RQ world was a very special thing. It was at once common and pervasive, while still being relatively low powered. Almost everyone had access to magic, and very, very few folks of the adventurer class had no magic. Low level enhancements such as Bladesharp, or Protection were exceedingly common, which I always found a nice spice to RQ. In the same thread, even a Sorceror or Shaman, whose main focus was magic, was still quite tame by many RPG standards for magic. True, they might have a spell or two that could kill a man in one shot, with good damage roll. But the massive spells you might see in D&D or Hero were quite absent. The mightiest of magics, imo, were the Divine spells known by the devout priests. These spells had a lot more OOMPH to them, but they were one shots. The priest couldn't get the spell back until returning to his temple, and spending time in meditation or service to be granted the boon of the spell. Vera Cool, all around!

 

I've always kinda held the idea of using an RQ magic style if I ever run a FH game. So I may delve into my storage unit someday, dig out my RQ collection and convert some stuff.

 

Will be eager to see how this thread develops. I think there are a lot of us old RQ folks around.

[Korvar]

Originally posted by RadeFox

In the same thread, even a Sorceror or Shaman, whose main focus was magic, was still quite tame by many RPG standards for magic.

 

Well, I think that depended on which Sorcery rules you used My Duck Sorcerer, QuackDrake (I love Glorantha ) once machinegunned about 13 EvilBadGuys using MultiSpell and Palsy, going up and down the line, hitting most twice and many three times. I think only a couple weren't taken out immediately (about the only way to survive was to only have your left arm hit).

 

And this was when he was still and Apprentice, not even an Adept!

 

Having said that, all the attempts at Sorcery in RuneQuest were acknowledged as being broken

[SCUBA Hero]

Originally posted by RadeFox

Magic in the RQ world was a very special thing. It was at once common and pervasive, while still being relatively low powered. Almost everyone had access to magic, and very, very few folks of the adventurer class had no magic. Low level enhancements such as Bladesharp, or Protection were exceedingly common, which I always found a nice spice to RQ.

Yeah, that's what got me interested in converting it to Hero.

 

Well, that and the cover of FH Companion II, with the Shaman enchanting those arrows. . .

[Markdoc]

Hmmmm. I have almost finished a Runequest (2nd Ed.) to Hero system conversion, which I'll be plugging up on the website in the course of the next month or so. All the conversion notes are done, all the spirit and divine spells are done, and I'm about half way through sorcery spells. Just haven't had time for that last push....

 

The base of the method has been simply to say that EGO = POW. I required most attack spells to take BOECV, which fits the RQ way: you don't take distance penalties on your befuddle spell, for example! And almost all spells take the limitation "requires POW" which means as you cast your spells, your POW/EGO goes down, making you more vulnerable to magical attacks, spirit combat etc.

 

Worked well in playtesting....

[SCUBA Hero]

Markdoc,

 

Nice! Would you mind posting a link to your site on this thread once the conversion is up?

[RadeFox]

Oh lord, someone HAD to bring up the DUCKS. The lamest, and biggest mistake RQ ever made. I think someone must have spiked their pop that month. *groans*

 

And, I agree, as well, Multi-Spell and massively stacked spells weren't the best. We usually had several house rules to prevent people from getting Mulitpsell-4 or SpeedDart-4, etc. You had to be extremely dedicated to rise above the -2 level of spells. Sorcery was powerful, but it had serious drawbacks if done well. It was incredibly hard to learn, teachers were amazingly scarce. If tGM'd right it would take a character most of the campagin to even come close to being an Adept. Which, imo, is how it should be.

 

In most of our games, Sorcery often dealt with dealing with cthuluoid beings to get access to some magics. (Our Glorantha, besides having no Ducks, was a dark place, that still remembered in dreams the shadows of the Old Ones arrival.) In fact most of the God's of Glorantha became such in their RuneQuests to overcame those foul eldritch horrors from space.

 

I too would be very interested in seeing the world you did on converting RQ over to Hero.

[diocletianx]

How is POW vs POW calculated for resistance? Is it a stat calculation (9+EGO/5) with EGO decreasing as you cast spells?

[grymlocke]

lets not forget, that a higher power (in RQ) effects stealth and concealment skill becuase of the aura you project...RQIII, page 14...

 

sounds alot like a combo both Presence AND Ego to me....

[Markdoc]

I've essentially abolished the POW vs POW roll, since in Runequest spells always hit - but then you often have to make the POW vs POW roll for them to take effect. In Hero system, there is no "always hit" power, so since POW = EGO, and physical spells take BOECV, you have to roll an ego attack, which is essentially a ECV vs ECV roll. Works out the same and avoids an extra roll and extra rules.

 

As for the effect of POW on stealth skills, I simply ignored it: it only modifies your base skill and in most cases makes difference of only a few percent. Not worth bothering about. Though I do recall Kagar - my troll PC with high POW - having a starting stealth skill of -10 percent!

 

And yeah, I'll post the link when I'm done: but no conversion notes for ducks.

 

cheers, Mark

[Korvar]

The problem with just making it BOECV is that it doesn't model the way your ability to affect other people decreases the more magic points you spend...

[RadeFox]

I dont think we ever used that. I'm pretty sure in more then one Chaosium product, it said that you used your Base Power for spells, to attack and resist, not your current. I may be wrong, and the GM was using house rules. The only times Current Power was used, was in resisting things like torture/interrogation, or some creatures drains.

[Toadmaster]

I've always liked Runequest, although I haven't played since about '88. I even liked the ducks but I prefered the Newtlings and Dragonnewts. Glorantha has a very unique feel to it, interesting magic, good background, the livestock is similar to classic fantasy having elves, dwarves etc but also has unique things like dragon newts (with their life cycle and hints that they become dragons), scorpionmen, broos, jackobears etc.

[grymlocke]

Originally posted by Toadmaster

I've always liked Runequest, although I haven't played since about '88. I even liked the ducks but I prefered the Newtlings and Dragonnewts. Glorantha has a very unique feel to it, interesting magic, good background, the livestock is similar to classic fantasy having elves, dwarves etc but also has unique things like dragon newts (with their life cycle and hints that they become dragons), scorpionmen, broos, jackobears etc.

 

and the perpetual struggle against CHAOS, rather than those awfull catagorized alignment of the gamethatwillnotbementioned has....

[Bazza]

Has someone converted the Runes themselves to HERO?

[tetsujin28]

Originally posted by RadeFox

Oh lord, someone HAD to bring up the DUCKS. The lamest, and biggest mistake RQ ever made. I think someone must have spiked their pop that month. *groans*

Being a former Chaosium contractor, I can tell you that the following (possibly apochryphal) story is how ducks came about:

 

Dragon Pass wasn't part of Glorantha, nor was Prax. That they were included was due to the poplularity of White Bear Red Moon and Nomad Gods. When the map for WBRM was being drawn up, Wil Church included a place on the map called "Duck Point". Someone mentioned that since the place was named Duck Point, there had to be ducks, right? And gaming history was made.

[Markdoc]

>>>>The problem with just making it BOECV is that it doesn't model the way your ability to affect other people decreases the more magic points you spend...<<<<

 

Yep, it's a good point, and one I pondered for while. It's a bit hard to model since almost all HERO powers have graduated effects and work against a defence. So 6d6 might total one character but not even stun another.

 

In contrast, Runequest spells that require you to overcome someone's POW usually either take full effect or do nothing at all.

 

In the end I decided to mostly ignore it but suggest one option. You can use levels to increase the effect of powers (in this case spells), and I suggested that if you want more flexibility you can buy levels (which cost POW to use) to increase your offensive potential. Otherwise, you can just buy and cast bigger spells, in an attempt to get through your victim's defences.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Runequest Conversion (Paging Markdoc)

 

Hey, Mark: I don't mean to sound pushy, but did you ever get around to finishing your Runequest conversion? I haven't been able to find it on your website, so I'm assuming you didn't put it up.

[Markdoc]

Re: Runequest Conversion (Paging Markdoc)

 

Hey' date=' Mark: I don't mean to sound pushy, but did you ever get around to finishing your [i']Runequest[/i] conversion? I haven't been able to find it on your website, so I'm assuming you didn't put it up.

 

OOPS! My Bad - I put it up ages ago, but forgot to post a link:

 

http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Runequest/heroquest.htm

 

We actually used it to play a short series of heroquest/timetravel adventures (not realy long enough to call it a campaign) and it all went rather splendidly, I thought.

 

The main character/hero was a didn't know whether to be pleased or pissed: at the end of the scenario, it became clear that the player's attempt to change history had failed - and in fact that her failure was actually known to the players: it had been a major part of the main campaign's backstory/timeline. So she was torn between: "Oh my god! That was US!" and the realisation that I had basically set them up from the very beginning. (evil cackle)

 

cheers, Mark

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Runequest Conversion (Paging Markdoc)

 

Looks really good! Thanks, Mark.

 

Time to update my Conversions thread again.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Runequest Spirit Magic to Hero System

 

[Thread necromancy]

 

Okay………..

 

While I’m happy with the general rules (see first post for review), I don’t care for the method of applying the Usable By Others advantage to a single Continuing Charge; while it works and is legal (and although it’s a Stop Sign power, the method of using an Endurance Reserve with extended Recovery time keeps it from being abusive IMO), it feels like a cheap way to get a Continuing Charge.

 

So far I’ve been unable to come up with a better way.

 

So I’m throwing it out for the Fantasy Hero heavy hitters: how else to accomplish this? Probably something using Continuous-Uncontrolled with five minutes as the turn-off condition, Usable By Others, and Lingering, depending on the specific spell.

 

Examples:

 

1. Bladesharp 1: Provides +1 OCV and +1 Damage Class to an edged weapon for five minutes. [1 END]

 

2. Firesword: Creates a 3d6 HKA flaming sword for five minutes. [3 END]

 

3. Accuracy 2: Provides +2 OCV to an arrow for its next shot only [2 END]

 

4. Protection 3: Provides 3/3 Armor for five minutes, can be used on another person [3 END]

 

***************************************

 

On a different note, how do you handle, say, a spell that provides extra damage for a melee weapon on its next hit (that is, a successful Attack Roll) only? Or on its next hit only, but the spell fades after one day?

 

And contrast that with a spell that will provide an arrow with extra damage on the next shot (even if it misses, the magic is gone) only? Or on the next shot only, but the spell fades after one day?

 

[/necromancy]

[Markdoc]

Re: Runequest Spirit Magic to Hero System

 

Well the UBO, 1 5 minute charge is cheap and nasty, so it is rightfully a stop-sign power, but it is also rules-legal and does exactly what you want.

 

In a regular FH game, I would be careful about allowing it since it would be easy to build the Uber-Combat-Mage o'Doom, but in a RQ style game where everyone and their Duck is using the same construct, that reduces the prospects for abuse.

 

Not only would I allow it, I DID allow it and part from the fact that the PCs acted like RQ characters (throwing magic spells on all and sundry) we didn't identify any problems.

 

cheers, Mark

[McCoy]

Re: Runequest Spirit Magic to Hero System

 

The problem with just making it BOECV is that it doesn't model the way your ability to affect other people decreases the more magic points you spend...

If I were to convert RQ to Hero I would try a side effect on attack spells, each one drains a point of EGO.

[Markdoc]

Re: Runequest Spirit Magic to Hero System

 

If I were to convert RQ to Hero I would try a side effect on attack spells' date=' each one drains a point of EGO.[/quote']

 

That is, in fact, exactly what I did. But Korvar's point was slightly different - in RQ, you can spend Extra POW points (Ego, in my system) to make the spell more likely to take effect or, in some cases, to boost the effect of the spell.

 

I played around with this, but simply could not come up with a mechanism that was both rules-legal, did both these things and that I liked. In the end I dropped it simply because there are already some differences. For example for most spells in RQ there is no "to hit roll". The spell may or may not have an effect, but it always hits. I guess in the end, I wasn't interested in mangling the Hero system too much to try to get an exact match.

 

However, if you wish to try, my final suggestion for "boosting spells with POW" was to allow characters to add two 3 pt levels for every point of POW/Ego expended. This can be used either to boost the chance of hitting, or to add one DC to an attack.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Runequest Spirit Magic to Hero System

 

If I were to convert RQ to Hero I would try a side effect on attack spells' date=' each one drains a point of EGO.[/quote']

 

That is, in fact, exactly what I did. But Korvar's point was slightly different - in RQ, you can spend Extra POW points (Ego, in my system) to make the spell more likely to take effect or, in some cases, to boost the effect of the spell.

 

I played around with this, but simply could not come up with a mechanism that was both rules-legal, did both these things and that I liked. In the end I dropped it simply because there are already some differences. For example for most spells in RQ there is no "to hit roll". The spell may or may not have an effect, but it always hits. I guess in the end, I wasn't interested in mangling the Hero system too much to try to get an exact match.

 

However, if you wish to try, my final suggestion for "boosting spells with POW" was to allow characters to add two 3 pt levels for every point of POW/Ego expended. This can be used either to boost their ECV (thus improving the chance of hitting or to add 1 DC). To be fair, a target can resist by expending POW and either adding the CSLs to their DCV, or boost a defensive spell when casting it (by 3 points).

 

This is an ugly kludge, but it does what was requested.

 

cheers, Mark