Blasters in Dark Champions

[JmOz]

So I am thinking here, I want to put together a game, the ground rules is a weird hybrid of Champions and Dark Champions. Basicaly while it is somewhat 4 color type heroes (Powers and such are allowed) the characters can still somewhat easily "Slum it" to Dark Champions levels. If it helps think some of the MArvel Knights type stories where you had characters like Ghost Rider, Cloak and Dagger, Luke Cage, etc...

 

So working on a power armored character, and I have him at the level I like, but having a real problem with his main attack, a simple kind of vanila energy blaster. My problem is that it seems to "break" the Dark Champions cross over vibe (To main stream champions).

 

So my question for you all is "Do blasters have a place in some Dark Champions style games"

 

Something to discuss...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I allow Pulson blasters and Lasers in MetaCyber, but they require higher equipment availability (representing their rarity), which also causes them to cost more in credits. They also require a different Weapon Familiarity from normal bullet-ed projectile guns.

 

Since DEF is usually equivalent in PD/ED there is no real game advantage to using a energy weapon over a physical weapon. I handle Pulson's as EB's vs Energy and Lasers as RKA's vs Energy. Since their isn't an equivalent EB vs Phys (short of something like a bean-bag round for a shotgun or some other edge case), it does make Pulsons a viable option for someone wanting the tactical option to do primarily STUN damage. To allow Lasers to have a purpose, I permit them to have +1d6 or +2d6 more damage than equivalent projectile weapons at the Military and Advanced Military level, but only in conjunction with the Extra Time limitation (representing the laser charging up); SPD is a premium in heroic level games making any form of ET unattractive. The increased cost is also a deterrent.

 

 

Long story short, the end effect is they exist in the setting but it requires a greater investment in both points and money, making them inefficient. Players that really want to use them will pay the overhead anyway so they are happy, but the overall presence of such devices is naturally lessened.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I dunno. Do you allow miniguns?

 

You can do 'blaster' (i.e., a character who specializes in RKAs) without breaking the SFX of a Dark Champions setting. It's a question of what SFX you want; do you want energy weapons? HVAP rounds? What specifically do you want to acheive here?

[Edsel]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

In the old Omega Team campaign we mainly played real-world stuff but there were the occasional supernatural menaces and we also allowed some blaster style weapons. All were considered cutting edge stuff and thus highly restricted (unavailable for public sale). Of course PCs with the right connections could manage to get one or two but they were hard to get and hard to replace if lost. We used a couple of laser rifles and a blaster sort of like what appeared in the old Tekwar TV series.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

In the old Omega Team campaign we mainly played real-world stuff but there were the occasional supernatural menaces and we also allowed some blaster style weapons. All were considered cutting edge stuff and thus highly restricted (unavailable for public sale). Of course PCs with the right connections could manage to get one or two but they were hard to get and hard to replace if lost. We used a couple of laser rifles and a blaster sort of like what appeared in the old Tekwar TV series.

 

And lets not forget the guy with the PREDATOR gear

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I dunno. Do you allow miniguns?

 

Yep.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

Depends on how high tech or near-future you want the game flavor to be. Street can be as much attitude as equipment, so that's not really the primary issue IMO.

 

If the idea that the game universe can produce some form of energy based ranged weapon that's field use viable, even if it's "Woah, that's REALLY advanced" level stuff but still plausible in the realm of the universes science strucutre - go for it.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I do love me some miniguns.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I do love me some miniguns.

 

Jones & Strat Validator Minigun

Gear Lvl 2

Military, 143,500 creds

This fearsome weapon, beloved by many Boomers and gun nuts, is one of the most lethal and destructive man-portable weapons in the world. Relatively rare and regarded as a highly recognizable "signature" weapon, its distinctive percussive whine has been the last thing heard by many and brings a chill to most peoples spines.

 

Jones & Strat Validator Minigun: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1 (vs. PD), 32 Charges (+1/4), Does Knockback Not Knockdown (+1/4), Semi-Armor Piercing (+1/4), Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (AoE: 34" Line, AoE: 17" Cone, AoE: 13" Half Circle); +1 3/4) (175 Active Points); STR Min 18+ Cannot Add Damage (-1 1/2), OIF (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) [32]

Active Points 175 Real Cost 41

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

Jones & Strat Validator Minigun

Gear Lvl 2

Military, 143,500 creds

This fearsome weapon, beloved by many Boomers and gun nuts, is one of the most lethal and destructive man-portable weapons in the world. Relatively rare and regarded as a highly recognizable "signature" weapon, its distinctive percussive whine has been the last thing heard by many and brings a chill to most peoples spines.

 

Jones & Strat Validator Minigun: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1 (vs. PD), 32 Charges (+1/4), Does Knockback Not Knockdown (+1/4), Semi-Armor Piercing (+1/4), Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (AoE: 34" Line, AoE: 17" Cone, AoE: 13" Half Circle); +1 3/4) (175 Active Points); STR Min 18+ Cannot Add Damage (-1 1/2), OIF (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) [32]

Active Points 175 Real Cost 41

 

Nice!

inspired use of Variable Advantage there.

Although after long contemplation, I've grown to favor making mini-guns a non selective AOE and keeping autofire, with a bit of a house rule nudge to shift the way AF & AOE interact, because it really doesn't feel like a minigun to me unless it will chew apart anything that doesn't have enough DEF to avoid damage.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

Nice!

inspired use of Variable Advantage there.

Although after long contemplation, I've grown to favor making mini-guns a non selective AOE and keeping autofire, with a bit of a house rule nudge to shift the way AF & AOE interact, because it really doesn't feel like a minigun to me unless it will chew apart anything that doesn't have enough DEF to avoid damage.

 

I allow various builds to have the label of "mini-gun" applied. I don't have a problem w/ mini-gun a working one way and mini-gun b working another in the same setting so long as both feel "mini-gunnish" in their own way.

[Vann the Red]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I certainly would. It depends on your flavor and how well you can communicate it to the players. For example, Black Lighting was certainly a street-level (and possibly DC or at least DC:TAS) character in his Batman and the Outsiders days. Black Widow could be considered a blaster to some degree with her widow sting.

 

As I've mentioned before DC and DC:TAS are more about the campaign setting and objectives than the characters. If they're fighting real crime, cleaning up neighborhoods, it's DC whether they're totin' miniguns or firing electrical blasts.

 

VtR

[JmOz]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I think I should clarify, when I say blaster I am refering to an energy projecting weapon, not a character type defined as using energy blasts (I actualy already have one of those that projects electricity in the group named Teaser)

[Sketchpad]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

If your game world allows them, then why not?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I allow Pulson blasters and Lasers in MetaCyber, but they require higher equipment availability (representing their rarity), which also causes them to cost more in credits. They also require a different Weapon Familiarity from normal bullet-ed projectile guns.

 

Since DEF is usually equivalent in PD/ED there is no real game advantage to using a energy weapon over a physical weapon. I handle Pulson's as EB's vs Energy and Lasers as RKA's vs Energy. Since their isn't an equivalent EB vs Phys (short of something like a bean-bag round for a shotgun or some other edge case), it does make Pulsons a viable option for someone wanting the tactical option to do primarily STUN damage. To allow Lasers to have a purpose, I permit them to have +1d6 or +2d6 more damage than equivalent projectile weapons at the Military and Advanced Military level, but only in conjunction with the Extra Time limitation (representing the laser charging up); SPD is a premium in heroic level games making any form of ET unattractive. The increased cost is also a deterrent.

 

 

Long story short, the end effect is they exist in the setting but it requires a greater investment in both points and money, making them inefficient. Players that really want to use them will pay the overhead anyway so they are happy, but the overall presence of such devices is naturally lessened.

 

I forgot, I discuss blasters in detail in this document, under the header of "Blasters":

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyberSupplements_GandG.aspx

[Remjin]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

Methinks that it isn't the energy weapon that breaks the genre crossover so much as the presence of the power armor. I'm assuming its a gauntlet that's emitting the blast, but perhaps if it were a bit less elegant and more like a rather large device or just as a rifle/launcher/projector type thing. If you make it more unwieldy and requiring a certain amount of equipment or at least a heavier cost in power it would fit the feel of it better, perhaps.

 

Think on the image of warhammer 40k heavy weapons versus iron man kind of stuff... and that's basically my idea to make it seem to fit better.

 

I also agree that mini-guns are fun and have that certain distinctive flare for style and such. If/when I allow them in my games, they are typically fun for a short while as the ammunition just runs out real fast but not "realistically" fast. Gets the impact in but doesn't mean that character is hosing everything all game long. That would be more for the straight dark champions or cyberpunk/shadowrun style games. I'm not a big advocate of excessive firepower at all times for the game to be any fun. Tends to engender the whole firepower/defense escalation thing.

[bubba smith]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

So I am thinking here, I want to put together a game, the ground rules is a weird hybrid of Champions and Dark Champions. Basicaly while it is somewhat 4 color type heroes (Powers and such are allowed) the characters can still somewhat easily "Slum it" to Dark Champions levels. If it helps think some of the MArvel Knights type stories where you had characters like Ghost Rider, Cloak and Dagger, Luke Cage, etc...

 

So working on a power armored character, and I have him at the level I like, but having a real problem with his main attack, a simple kind of vanila energy blaster. My problem is that it seems to "break" the Dark Champions cross over vibe (To main stream champions).

 

So my question for you all is "Do blasters have a place in some Dark Champions style games"

 

Something to discuss...

sounds like your talking dark champions TAS

[D. Guss Tibus]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I say no. Blasters are too scifi for a good Dark game.

 

IMO, YMMV, etc.

[bubba smith]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

I say no. Blasters are too scifi for a good Dark game.

 

IMO, YMMV, etc.

TRUE unless you use the word "blaster" as slang

or in a dc tas game

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

You could do it with just slightly beyond cutting edge tech to give it a more DC feel. Directed electron beams (following an ionized path tunneled by a UV laser) pretty much throw lightning bolts, and we're basically there but for a good portable power supply.

 

to wax again on one of my favorite new inventions, the Hyperion Power Module is a safe nuclear reactor the size of a small car. The way we miniaturize things, it's not hard to extrapolate a backpack sized model in a few generations.

 

Wait... I think I just recreated a proton pack.

 

Of course, I'd consider Ghostbusters to be a DC game, so it all sorta works together....

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

Jones & Strat Validator Minigun

Gear Lvl 2

Military, 143,500 creds

This fearsome weapon, beloved by many Boomers and gun nuts, is one of the most lethal and destructive man-portable weapons in the world. Relatively rare and regarded as a highly recognizable "signature" weapon, its distinctive percussive whine has been the last thing heard by many and brings a chill to most peoples spines.

 

Jones & Strat Validator Minigun: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1 (vs. PD), 32 Charges (+1/4), Does Knockback Not Knockdown (+1/4), Semi-Armor Piercing (+1/4), Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (AoE: 34" Line, AoE: 17" Cone, AoE: 13" Half Circle); +1 3/4) (175 Active Points); STR Min 18+ Cannot Add Damage (-1 1/2), OIF (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) [32]

Active Points 175 Real Cost 41

 

Variable Advantage validation rep. Thanks, KS.

[D. Guss Tibus]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

TRUE unless you use the word "blaster" as slang

Slang for what? What would be slanged into "blaster" thats not an enrgy projecting weapon? Other than an energy projecting super, but thats not what talking about.

 

or in a dc tas game

Hey I did say a good, dark game.

[bubba smith]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

when i suggested blaster as as a slang term i meant slang for for a handgun

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Blasters in Dark Champions

 

Variable Advantage validation rep. Thanks' date=' KS.[/quote']

 

Thanks, always glad to be helpful.