Problem Player (?)

[Silbeg]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

Well, actually, I still have a Quattro Pro for Dos character template around here somewhere....

 

And I like the idea of closing sheets. I might try that in my next game.

 

JoeG

 

What we use for "questions" are:

 

Closing Sheet information

Game Summary: basically a journal of gaming events from the persepctive of my character - if I need to interject a player observation to clarify that perspective it's usually presented in parentheses

Outstanding Player Character Achievement: Who stood out this session, either in roleplaying or problem solving. Basically, which character would have stood out in your reports to the FPCA (this may actually be a negative)

Goals: Activities that the character will engage in during downtime whenever it seems appropriate. I usually include the parameters that I intend to operate under and how I intend to proceed. If there's a reason it needs to be played out in game, it certainly can be, but for the most part does not need to be role-played.

GM Notes: Comments to the GM about how the player sees thing developing, Questions about rulings (or continuing debate) or other campaign material, and campaign-level feedback.

Advancement: What I want to do with my xp and my justifications. Frequently, future xp spending is featured here as evidence (and reminders) about how I thought my character was advancing.

[Tech]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

You guys let players have character sheets?

 

Hmm....

 

Since Day 1.

 

To the problem mentioned, I have a suggestion: talk to the group about allowing one and only one exception to the AP rule for your friend - after all, you're friends. The group should all agree on it but it's best done while he's not there. If possible, email your group or discuss it before/after a game when he's not there. It can work as I've used this with my group, so it's been tried and found workable.

 

If they don't want/like the exception suggestion, go with the 'talk to him' suggestion. It may be he's wanting to be something larger-in-life that 50 AP won't work for him. Perhaps go out of your way to tailor specific events where his character can be heroic/cool/outstanding/etc., and he'll see it's not necessary for more points.

[Vondy]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

You guys let players have character sheets?

 

Hmm....

 

Um... yes?

 

I used to have a policy that I had a copy and my copy was the final arbiter in the case of conflict, but overall, I ended up with a group I could trust and let the policy lapse.

[bubba smith]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

did he mention at the game's beginning that he was a power gamer?

[Vondy]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

did he mention at the game's beginning that he was a power gamer?

 

I have a simple power gamer policy: one talk.

 

If it fails: move straight to the firing squad.

 

Life is too short to put up with bad gamers.

[cutsleeve]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

This is one of life's more complex conundrums. If any of you are bosses where you work, consider this. Is your time better spent coaching your "good" employees (i.e. the ones that MAKE you money) or trying to fix a "bad" employee (i.e. one that underperforms or has even COST you money). If you are like me then follow this advice. Stop wasting your time on the bad employees and use it to help the good ones make more money! Tell the bad employee he either has to shape up or ship out, you have other people that deserve your time too.

 

My point?

As the GM, you are the boss. You have other players to worry about. Don't risk the whole game going under for one bad player. Tell him to shape up or ship out.

 

Roleplaying games aren't a business though. I personally don't play with people I wouldn't consider to be friends. I don't go to game sessions to achieve things I got to hang out with my friends and indulge in some trivial game play. If nothing comes of it but we're all entertained then it was a good session. As a GM I would never consider myself to be a boss of the game all game play is a shared experience. Kicking someone from the group should be the last step in a desperate chain of events rather than a flippant decision in order to cull weak players from the group. Instead the GM should do what others on this board suggest and address the problems he's having with the player and see if they can come to a decent understanding.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

Roleplaying games aren't a business though. I personally don't play with people I wouldn't consider to be friends. I don't go to game sessions to achieve things I got to hang out with my friends and indulge in some trivial game play. If nothing comes of it but we're all entertained then it was a good session. As a GM I would never consider myself to be a boss of the game all game play is a shared experience. Kicking someone from the group should be the last step in a desperate chain of events rather than a flippant decision in order to cull weak players from the group. Instead the GM should do what others on this board suggest and address the problems he's having with the player and see if they can come to a decent understanding.

All that I'm saying is that it is not worth it to let one person, even a friend, ruin the game for everyone.

 

It sounds like you have been playing awhile. Isn't there a past game or perhaps even a few friends that you miss and wish you had tried harder to hold together? As my friends and I get older (not much older than you, we are in our mid-30s) and have less time to play, we always talk with regret about how we miss the games that "got away".

[cutsleeve]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

I'm in my early thirties and began playing when I was 11 or so. That was back when you had to go down to the local book store to find people to game with. you would spend time looking at the little notes on the book shelves or reading one off of a cork bulletin board while flipping through the newest rpg. Looking back on it it seemed easier to get a group back then but in truth it was harder, you had to put some effort into it. I've been out of play for a few years now and come to realize that its much easier to maintain a group then to find a new one. So I always give a word of caution and patience. I have been aching to get back into the game and probably should. Age has mellowed me a bit so I'm not nearly as annoying as when I first started playing.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

I'm running a hero's game and I am consistently having a problem with one of my players. This player usually will argue with me about some rule or ruling that I have established or actually will argue with one of the other players about the other players effects of the powers.

 

IMO there's arguing because you honestly believe the GM or other player has made a mistake, and then there's arguing to try to change an informed decision. The first IMO isn't harmful, the second can be.

 

This player will also complain constantly about the AP in the game that I have set which currently is 50 AP for powers. He tries to slide things past me' date=' and will update his character without telling me or actually will show me just before we start our session, which gives me no time to go over his character and check it for mistakes.[/quote']

 

IMO, this is clearly ambush minmaxing munchkinism, and should be stomped on -- hard. It's like being told "50 AP limit for powers" and then comig to the game with a character having:

 

50 Pts STR, 50 pts Growth, 50 Pts Density Increase, and 50 pts Hand Attack. And then complaining when you don't allow him to have his 40d6 Attack with "But I obeyed your rule of no more than 50 AP powers!"

 

Explain to him that "50 AP" means not only individual powers, but also the total AP in the attacks he's dishing out. Or you could be sneaky and use his own builds against him in new Villains. After all, what's good for the Goose...

 

Actually he is a power player' date=' and tries to use the rules to his best advantage and I am really un certain on how to handle a player like this in my game.[/quote']

 

From what you described above (ambush changes, frequent? arguments, displeasure with current AP cap and wants more?), it sounds like he wants to be "top dog" of the group, and the rest to be his followers. That isn't going to happen.

 

One of my problems is that we are a small group and I don't have that many players in my game first of all. Secondly' date=' I've known him for years as a friend, and it is a little hard for me to clap down on him.[/quote']

 

If he is actually a friend and not just a friendly person you tend to hang with, I believe he needs you to clap down on him (don't ask me why). If he's not willing to modify his behavior -- at the very least the timing of it -- then he's not much of a friend, is he?

 

Help ! Does any one have any suggestions on how to handle a player like this.

 

Ground Rules. Appeal to Friendship. Tough Love. If those don't work, then kick him out. After all, kicking him out might be the catalyst needed to get him to change and be a responsible player. Kicking out isn't forever, it's only as long as the bad behavior lasts.

[Psylint]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

For my two-bits:

 

1. Prevention and individual attention works wonders. Stomping on munchkinism before an audience can cause bad feelings both on the part of the player stomped on and his/her fellows. I always ask players to describe their powers, particularly in terms of limitations. If a character has Lim. Power only in intense magnetic fields, I'll ask "Under what circumstances would you encounter intense magnetic fields in your opinion?" Personally, I can't thing of anywhere intense magnetic fields operate, except maybe the inside of a power generator.

 

2. Unfair but Firm. It's important to establish "no nonsense" early or you'll be dealing with power creep all the time. If someone has a disagreement over your interpretation of the rules, campaign limits etc. and it's prior to the campaign, give them a shot to persuade you. If you're unpersuaded, "I appreciate your position, but I am unpersuaded. I may be wrong, but I've put a lot of work into creating a fun and balanced campaign based on my interpretation. So for the purposes of this campaign that's the way it's going to be." You can offer to help revise the character to fit within your rules.

 

If it's an in-game issue, simply refuse, "You may have a point, but I'm not going to hold everybody up for it."

 

3. Generally prefer, "Sorry Bob, but your character just renders my campaign FUBAR and would need a lot of changes to fit in. So it's up to you." to kicking people. I try to reserve sitting people out for bad behavior. Probably because I'm well aware of my inner munchkin, and recognize sometimes it can be difficult to see the line between really effective but justified by concept, and min maxed power gaming munchkinism.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

Um... yes?

 

..............

 

 

Sheesh, you probably let them have bathroom breaks too

[BarretWallace]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

For my two-bits:

 

 

3. Generally prefer, "Sorry Bob, but your character just renders my campaign FUBAR and would need a lot of changes to fit in. So it's up to you." to kicking people. I try to reserve sitting people out for bad behavior. Probably because I'm well aware of my inner munchkin, and recognize sometimes it can be difficult to see the line between really effective but justified by concept, and min maxed power gaming munchkinism.

 

I like this one!

 

Maybe if your friend realizes that his actions are disrupting the game for everyone, he will change his tune. If not, well then the game will likely fester until it erupts into something particularly ugly (in-game conflicts are always worse when they spread into real life).

 

If this person thinks he can sneak over-powered abilities in under the gun, there's no reason you can't do the same. Maybe the first villain the party meets is similarly tweaked beyond your declared limits, and he targets the munchkining character first, since he's the most dangerous opponent. Several turns in GM La-La Land may prove to be an effective time-out.

 

More later after I've had some more coffee perhaps.

[BarretWallace]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

Sorry, my brain is still waking up.

 

Anyhoo, another issue is that your buddy's behavior is not friendship. Real friendship is symbiotic, not parasitic. It has to go both ways, i.e. he must be a friend to you as well, otherwise it ain't friendship. Yes, you want to stay on good terms with him, but what are the limits? How many compromises will you make just to keep him happy?

 

If the root of the issue is that your friend wants his character to be top dog (or "group leader" to use a more polite term), can he just ask to move into the role of leader? Does he really need illegally high stats in order to be in charge? These are questions only you (and your friend, and ultimately the rest of the group) can answer.

 

In the meantime, may you always roll low, except when rolling damage...

[Vondy]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

Sheesh' date=' you probably let them have bathroom breaks too [/quote']

 

You have a bathroom?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Problem Player (?)

 

You have a bathroom?

 

Well, we call it a bathroom - really it is just a shallow dip in the middle of a fast road, but it is a bathroom to us.