Bones As Armour

[Shadowsoul]

Hi there Herophiles. I need some help with an equipment issue.

 

You often get armour and weapons made from bone in Fantasy. But I was wondering precisely how practical it is because I'm currently coming up with an armoury for an underwater race.

 

I heard once that bone is actually harder weight-for-weight than steel. Which seems a little farfetched to me, though I suppose that being porous and generally lighter than steel could explain why it is more likely to break.

 

Basically the question is, how much PD and ED would you all assign to e.g. plate armour and a helmet made from whalebone? It could be thicker than steel or iron because it's light but it would be correspondingly bulkier and more difficult to move in.

 

Thanks in advance guys.

[CTaylor]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Real bone makes crappy armor, its light but brittle and would shatter with a single solid hit (possibly driving shards of bone into the person its supposed to be protecting). However, bones of magical creatures might be more durable and less prone to shattering yet still be light and give good protection.

 

I would consider bone armor to be close to the same defense as metal, but with far less body and even possibly an ablative roll: shattering as people hit it. It also is pretty bulky for the protection so that might require it to be treated as higher weight only for purposes of encumbrance.

[gojira]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Also, hardness is not the same as strength. Bones may be harder than steel, but I doubt they are as strong as steel. Hardness tends to be inversely proportional to usefulness too. Hardness tends to make thing brittle. Steel is useful because it's not hard, it's ductile.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

I would give bone 2 to 4 DEF depending on the type, thickness, and age of the bones use. What gives bones its strength is the ability to ablate, so unless magical necromancy is used, bones tend to be brittle after a couple of solid hits and then shatters (fails the ablative activation roll).

[Narratio]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Big agreement over thier ablativeness. It's the same concept as with stone or slate plates used by ancient chinese. Very heavy / bulky but good protection for one hit. After which something will have broken. BUT that ability to have absorbed one hit will have given you time to get close for a strike of your own. I'd also go 2-4 DEF with 1 BODY pt.

 

You might also consider an activation roll. Bone armour, like stone and slate, was made from seperate pieces held together with small amounts of wire but more usually leather of cord. This increased the bulkiness if you were trying to get ful overlaps, so there were usually spaces between individual pieces. I think it reasonable to slap on an activate at 14. (Going all Munchkin:- Give it 3 Body and a 14 activation then with each body point lost drop the activation roll to show bits of the armour falling off. But only if you REALLY like book keeping)

 

Remember that these armours are quite primitive and get abandoned as soon as the ability to work stronger materials liked cast or forged metals appears.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

The right kind of bone armor, even if less than ideally useful in combat, might well give you a bonus to Presence out of the sheer intimidation factor of "I am clad in the bones of my enemies -- in death, even my foes protect me!". It may not be literally true, but it certainly would have an impact initially, which might buy you time to get in the all-important first strike.

 

That's more a villain thing than a hero thing, of course. Necromancers and the like might go for it.

[Vulcan]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Bone armor certainly existed historically, and was even moderately common in cultures that didn't have metalworking skills - for example, the various Native American tribes.

 

Bone has some advantages for armor. It is a material that is readily available for any culture that eats meat. It comes in small pieces that are easily combined to give good coverage while retaining flexibility (and that flexibility helps combat the tendency of the bone to break upon impact). And yes, bone is quite hard and surprisingly strong, especially before it totally dries out. There is a pretty significant difference in strength between dead, dried out bone, and relatively fresh bone. On the other hand, fresh bone tends to be a bit smelly...

 

Several years back, I saw a test where a bone 'vest' (in the style of the plains tribes of Native Americans) stopped a bullet from a black powder rifle with no penetration, even of bone shards - I just don't remember what kind. So even against 'modern' weapons, bone armor can provide some protection.

 

On the down side: metal armors are more durable, and probably lighter for the protection given. Metal weapons will penetrate bone armor more readily than metal armors, especially in the stabbing role where they can get in between the pieces and get to the cords holding the pieces on.

 

In short: bone is better than nothing, but given the choice every culture that had the option went with metal for armor instead.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Thanks for the help guys. Much appreciated!

 

My thinking with the bone armour is that aside from using magic metalwork is pretty much useless to an undersea race. You can't forge it unless you rig up some very clever system to take advantage of volcanic activity/hot geysers and steel, iron and bronze will oxidise pretty quickly anyway.

 

I think I'll build the armour with Defence of up to 4 but knock the Body down as has been suggested.

 

The activation roll is an interesting idea. Part of the problems it simulates can be dealt with by sectional defences and lowered Body but it might be worth adding anyway.

 

Ablative is not something I've used before but I can see how it would work with relatively brittle forms of protection. I might make a couple of different styles of armour, one of which is better made and put together and reinforced with leather so that it is not ablative, (though it will still suffer form reduced Body).

[Vulcan]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Underwater you also have the option of using various shells for armor as well...

[CTaylor]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

And who knows what kind of enchanted coral grows undersea, and can be shaped and grown into desired forms by the undersea creatures?

[Vulcan]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

And sea turtle shells make dandy shields and/or breastplates!

[Vulcan]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

One other thing to bear in mind: most fish bones will be totally unsuitable for traditional bone armors because they are very thin and flexible. One could theorectically weave them together into something like wicker armor though...

 

For something more like traditional bone armor, you would need to go to things like turtles, whales, seals, saltwater crocodiles and the like.

 

And yet another thing: the sea is filled with various microbes and such that feed on pretty much anything organic - and bones are not immune to their attention. Bones are not likely to survive long periods (more than a couple years, IIRC) underwater.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

I wonder if the fin cartilage of sharks and manta rays would be useful as plates of armor? They'd decay faster than true bone, but the increased flexibility and lighter weight might be worth it.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I've already considered shells and coral but they are good suggestions so respect to those who thought of them. I'd come up with the idea of using a large shard of sea shell to make a sort of scimitar and was wondering whether to use coral in armour. It's nice to know that I'm not being too farfetched by thinking in those directions.

 

I hadn't thought of enchanted coral though CTaylor. It's an interesting possibility. I quite like the idea of a 'Grow Your Own Armour' set. If, btw, anyone would like to hold forth about the defensive capabilities of mundane coral I'm all ears.

 

Incidentally. I though seashells would make a good form of ritual armour for sorcerers and the like. Anyone know any folklore or legends linking seashells to magic or the supernatural?

 

Turtle shells are a new one though, might make for a nice, lightweight buckler. And there are some pretty big

 

As for fin cartilage. I have no idea. But it sounds like great fun.

 

Since most of the tanning processes we use probably don't work underwater I thought that raw shark hide would have to do instead of leather. And yes it will decay, as will bone, (I was mainly thinking of whalebone though the other marine mammals and creatures that Vulcan suggested would do as well). The race I'm designing are quite magical so they might be able to get around that problem. And there are always magical beasts such as Sea Wyrms which can have bones that ignore the laws of biology and physics if the world designer so wishes. Alternatively they could just do an awful lot of hunting in order to replace their constantly decaying equipment.

 

Thanks for the advice on fishbones btw Vulcan. I didn't know that. (Though I suppose I should have, having eaten my share of fish and chips).

 

A less magical race might spend a lot of time following the migrations of whales and other large beasts.

[CTaylor]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Coral is tough but crumbly from what I understand, and fairly heavy. Underwater that's less of an issue (it still has mass, but the water's density helps lift it).

[Burrito Boy]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

In a book I'm writing, the Mermaids and Sea Elves share a society based on the Ancient Greeks, the Mermaids being pansy Athenians and the Sea Elves being bada** Spartans. The Mermaids live in the seas and oceans but usually stick close to islands and coastal areas where the Sea Elves live. Because of their magical nature, Sea Elves can live equally well in water and on land. The Mermaids need them because the surface dwelling Sea Elves manufacture the types of items the Sea Elves can't produce underwater. The Sea Elves need the Mermaids less but still keep up a trade system for their own benefit.

 

By the way, look up shagreen, which is a leather made from sharkskin.

 

And sea turtle shells make dandy shields and/or breastplates!

 

Those must be some big...

[CTaylor]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Yeah you can get shark skin boots. They buff them down pretty well though, because sharks have rough skin.

[Markdoc]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I've already considered shells and coral but they are good suggestions so respect to those who thought of them. I'd come up with the idea of using a large shard of sea shell to make a sort of scimitar and was wondering whether to use coral in armour. It's nice to know that I'm not being too farfetched by thinking in those directions.

 

If you look at pacific island cultures that had little or no metal, you can get some ideas. For swords, they used bits of wood (large bones would suffice) with sharks teeth set in them to make nasty slashing weapons

They made similar daggers, spears and clubs.

Spears would be practical underwater, but I doubt swords or clubs would be (too much resistance). You might want to think about fighting styles: a grappling martial art built around daggers (immobilise your foe and stab him to death, break his limbs, or pop his eyeballs with your thumbs!) seems like a cool idea.

 

I hadn't thought of enchanted coral though CTaylor. It's an interesting possibility. I quite like the idea of a 'Grow Your Own Armour' set. If' date=' btw, anyone would like to hold forth about the defensive capabilities of mundane coral I'm all ears. [/quote']

 

Coral, unfortunately is very brittle, even when living. When dead and dried out, it's harder, but even so it'd be like making armour out of porous limestone.

 

Turtle shells are a new one though' date=' might make for a nice, lightweight buckler. And there are some pretty big[/quote']

 

And turtle shells have been used as shields in real life, so that works

 

As for fin cartilage. I have no idea. But it sounds like great fun.

 

Cartilage, no - it's tough, but squishy. Sharkskin would work, though. As far as decay, why not just go with it? Think of neolithic warlike tribes in places like New Guinea. They don't tend to stockpile weapons of war (weapons are personal, and such armour as there is, is made of biological materials like plant fibre, so it decays). When they go to war, it's a big ritual deal - part of which is making new weapons and armour. I kind of like the idea of the warriors engaging in a big ritual shark-hunt in order to obtain skin and teeth to make weapons before going to war

 

Another possibility for amour is kelp. It's very tough and multiple woven layers would give you cloth-armour like protection: bulky, but effective, and flexible.

 

cheers, Mark

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

I'm now imagining weaponized pistol shrimp...

[Kristopher]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

And who knows what kind of enchanted coral grows undersea' date=' and can be shaped and grown into desired forms by the undersea creatures?[/quote']

 

Suddenly, you have Jaque Custeau's voice as I read your post...

[Kristopher]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Hawaiian Warriors

 

Lua

 

Just something to look at.

[CTaylor]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

I'm now imagining weaponized pistol shrimp...

 

Imagine one 8 feet long...

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Hawaiian Warriors

 

Lua

 

Just something to look at.

 

Nice one.

 

I have the Hero stats for that as well. It's one of my favourite martial arts. Shark toothed punching weapons ftw.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

I'm definitely using kelp too btw. For nets and the like as well as armour.

[Burrito Boy]

Re: Bones As Armour

 

Yeah you can get shark skin boots. They buff them down pretty well though' date=' because sharks have rough skin.[/quote']

 

How about sharkskin gauntlets that haven't been buffed so you can still do a little damage after being disarmed.