Seeing through invisible

[Clovis]

I was planning on making a character that could see a specific class of being that maybe invisible even when they are invisible. I was thinking of Detect or Spatial Awareness based on sight, but I would like to hear from others on this.

[JmOz]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

See Invisible, for 5 points, seems kind of wrong when you think about it, 1/5 the cost negates the power...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

The only way to sense a character using the Invisibility Power is to use a sense not covered by that particular version of Invisibility.

 

This is why most GM's normally do not approve PC's with 'full' Invisibility without it including some sort of 'chink in the armor' so to speak (like visible in the UV spectrum).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

Make it a special (Detect) Sense that is not part of the Sight Group, but buy it all the modifiers needed to make it like sight (Targetting, Discriminatory--or a limited version thereof--Sense, Ranged, etc.). Then, if desired, give it limitations that says it can be flashed and darkened along with the Sight Group, but do NOT include Invisibility in the Limitation.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

This should sort you out:

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Continuous (+1), Area Of Effect (6" Radius; +1) (90 Active Points)

 

OK, TECHNICALLY you can't see them still, but it does set them on fire and you can see the fire, so it becomes pretty obvious where they are. It has the huge advantage that it works just as well no matter what they think they are invisible to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Seeing Through Invisibility

 

I was planning on making a character that could see a specific class of being that maybe invisible even when they are invisible. I was thinking of Detect or Spatial Awareness based on sight' date=' but I would like to hear from others on this.[/quote']

 

 

If it is a specific class of being then when you create that specific class of being then you buy their invisibility "not versus [perk]".

 

Then it is for you, as the GM to dictate the cost and the availability of the perk, whatever you call it.

 

Doc

[CUnknown]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

Make it a special (Detect) Sense that is not part of the Sight Group' date=' but buy it all the modifiers needed to make it like sight (Targetting, Discriminatory--or a limited version thereof--Sense, Ranged, etc.). Then, if desired, give it limitations that says it can be flashed and darkened along with the Sight Group, but do NOT include Invisibility in the Limitation.[/quote']

 

This is absolutely the way to do it, imo. Detect Invisible, ranged, targeting, sense affected as another sense (sight). Bingo.

 

No wait, I like Sean's method better.

 

Edit: one thing to remember is that this method won't let you actually see the person who is invisible (as in, not their facial features), but you will detect the shimmering aura or whatever that surrounds them and you'll be able to target it perfectly well.

[TikiGawd]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

Seems like it might be more fair to the characters who paid a boatload of points on Invisibility if this 'Detect' were actually based upon Dispel with some kind of limitation, "Only to allow user to see through invisibility".

[Tech]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

See Invisible' date=' for 5 points, seems kind of wrong when you think about it, 1/5 the cost negates the power...[/quote']

 

I see no problem with this. Flash Defense is the same at 1/5, i.e.,

Flash Defense 10 pts negates on the average a 10d6 Flash Attack of 10 Body.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

Make it a special (Detect) Sense that is not part of the Sight Group' date=' but buy it all the modifiers needed to make it like sight (Targetting, Discriminatory--or a limited version thereof--Sense, Ranged, etc.). Then, if desired, give it limitations that says it can be flashed and darkened along with the Sight Group, but do NOT include Invisibility in the Limitation.[/quote']

 

The main issue with this approach is potentially violating the invisible PC's shtick. If a player stated that he wanted his invisibility to work vs. 'everything' then the GM should decide either to A) allow it (and enforce it) or disallow it and state that he needs to pick 'something' it doesn't affect (like NND and UAA powers). Telling the player A) and then later violating that trust is like telling the player of Flash in a JLA game that a villain is faster than him. It just shouldn't be something that can happen (even if just occasionally). If the GM IS going to do this, the reason had better be central to the story or the player is going to be pissed.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

Seriously though folks, I would not allow 'detect invisibility' unless you could tell me what the detect was actually detecting. If the only way to become invisible is to emit UHF Negatron particles then detect them - but in many games there will be various ways to become invisible.

 

I'd probably allow something like Detect Mass....

[CUnknown]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

You want a story explanation for it, Sean? That would depend on the campaign in question and the way invisibility works there. I thought Clovis just wanted a game mechanics way to do it. The Detect could be "Detect Bending of Light" or something similar.

 

As far as 'Detect Invisibility' being unfair to the invisible character, I don't see that. Invisibility is only 20 active points. The Detect, once you add in Ranged and Targeting, is right around 20 active points as well. Also, I wouldn't allow the 'sense' adder here. So, you'd have to concentrate to detect an invisible intruder -- that means you'd already have to be suspicious in order for this to work. Invisible opponents could still spy on you, so long as they didn't give themselves away somehow.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

The only character I can recall from comics with the power to actually see invisible objects/people (as opposed to perceiving them with other non-visual senses) is Susan Richards. She has both an active, effort-intensive projective power to make invisible things flare into visibility (I'd model that as a Suppress) and a passive sense that allows her to personally see such things without interfering with their general invisibility to the world at large.

 

I think I'd build the latter based on the special effect of her own invisibility, as something like Detect Light Warping Fields. It wouldn't work against someone whose invisibility was based on psionically interfering with others' perceptions, or on a physical chameleon effect like Wednesday Addams painting herself to blend into the wallpaper.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

Meh. In DnD we always carried a bag of chalk dust to deal with invisible threats.

 

Chalk Dust: Suppress Sight Invisibility 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (75 Active Points); OAF (-1), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4) 27 Real

[prestidigitator]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

The main issue with this approach is potentially violating the invisible PC's shtick. If a player stated that he wanted his invisibility to work vs. 'everything' then the GM should decide either to A) allow it (and enforce it) or disallow it and state that he needs to pick 'something' it doesn't affect (like NND and UAA powers). Telling the player A) and then later violating that trust is like telling the player of Flash in a JLA game that a villain is faster than him. It just shouldn't be something that can happen (even if just occasionally). If the GM IS going to do this' date=' the reason had better be central to the story or the player is going to be pissed.[/quote']

 

Who the heck said the GM had promised the character with Invisibility that no one would ever be able to detect them?! The OP mentioned, "an invisible character," not, "someone the GM has specially granted a non-standard Invisibility against 'everything' that isn't even possible in the normal rules." Normally it is to be expected that having Invisibility vs. the Sight Group does not guarantee that no one will be able to sense you with other senses, and all I suggested was building another sense that could give you the same kind of info as sight could give you. I think that's reasonable, ESPECIALLY given the cost of such a sense.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

Who the heck said the GM had promised the character with Invisibility that no one would ever be able to detect them?! The OP mentioned' date=' "an invisible character," not, "someone the GM has specially granted a non-standard Invisibility against 'everything' that isn't even possible in the normal rules." Normally it is to be expected that having Invisibility vs. the Sight Group does not guarantee that no one will be able to sense you with other senses, and all I suggested was building another sense that could give you the same kind of info as sight could give you. I think that's reasonable, ESPECIALLY given the cost of such a sense.[/quote']

 

You're the one who suggested that they build a Detect based on the Unusual Sense Group.

 

That's not necessary unless the Invisibility is already 'Full' (that is, it already covers all the other senses).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

You're the one who suggested that they build a Detect based on the Unusual Sense Group.

 

That's not necessary unless the Invisibility is already 'Full' (that is, it already covers all the other senses).

 

Ah. I see what you mean. Actually what I was thinking of is NOT placing it in the Sight Group, since that would defeat the purpose. However, the intent was to, in effect, "see" the opponent. So I suggested the Unusual group with a bunch of modifiers to make it simulate "sight", with the assumption that SFX could take care of the rest.

 

I wouldn't have suggested giving it limitations to make it affected mostly as a sight-based sense if my intentions had been purely munchkinish.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Seeing through invisible

 

At one point, a character of mine had to fight a villain with "Hiesenburg Uncertainty Invisibility", which was Invis to all sense groups, and then a VPP to only buy Invisibility to senses which had just detected him. So you'd see him with say,"Detect Soul" then it would disappear again. The trick was to overload him with a combination of AoEs and all our specialized senses (we had, Souls, Emotions, a Detect Minds not built in the mental group, and Detect Ninjas (defined as having 10 or more CSLs).

 

If you want true invisibility, you basically need to pay a ton of points for it. And you'll still get taken down by a variety of unusual sense and AoEs.