Power "Cooldown": how to write up

[Tasha]

So having been contaminated by playing MMOs like City of Heroes and World of Warcraft. I have been coming up with power concepts that have cooldowns.

 

How it works. You use the power. Then the power is locked out and unusuable till the time period elapses. It's great for powers that you don't want used all of the time (ie Healing) or weapons that literally need to cooldown before they fire again (ie Fusion canons).

 

It resembles extra time, but allows you to use the power first without waiting. It shouldn't have more than 24hr cooldown or you could use Charges instead (ie 1 Charge recovers 24 hrs after power used, costs end -2 1/2)

 

So what do you all think?

 

Tasha

 

PS I really wish I would have thought of this in time to post it in one of the 6e threads...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

I believe there's a suggestion somewhere of allowing this kind of option for the Extra Time Limitation. I can't remember if it a reduction in value is suggested along with it or not. I might take half the value of the Limitation if it is an attack power or something myself.

[Klaus Mogensen]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

The easiest way is to have an END Reserve for the power, with just enough END for one use and a suitably slow recharge rate.

 

- Klaus

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

Alternately, if the recharge rate is slow enough that you're virtually guaranteed of not being able to activate it more than once in a fight, you could give it One Recoverable Charge.

[Hierax]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

good point, moving the Limitation value around on the Charges chart as a Recoverable Charge could work, maybe somehow based on the steps on the Time Chart...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

The easiest way is to have an END Reserve for the power, with just enough END for one use and a suitably slow recharge rate.

 

- Klaus

 

Whilst that works nicely on a mechanical level, you end up paying more for the power than if you just bought it 'straight'.

 

One potential problem with this sort of limitation is that you buy a MP with several different attacks (say a number of attacks equal to your SPD) and limit the whole thing so that each has a 1 turn cool down.

 

You can cycle through the attacks one per phase and you probably end up paying less than you would have for a single slot without the limitation.

 

40 points - 60 point pool with cooldown on each slot (say-1/2)

20 points - 5 ultra slots all with cooldown (-1/2)

 

Total 60 points (the same as a single slot without cooldown)

 

So, now you have a power a SPD 5 character can use every phase that has various different effects (you can decide what order they happen in) that costs the same as a single attack you can use every phase.

 

It may be a limitation on a single attack power (if that is all you have) it is not much of a lim in a framework.

[ajackson]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

good point' date=' moving the Limitation value around on the Charges chart as a Recoverable Charge could work, maybe somehow based on the steps on the Time Chart...[/quote']

If we assume that normal recovery time is 1 day, extrapolation suggests 1 step (on the charges chart) per step on the time chart. That's 7 steps to put a recharge time of 1 phase (a +0 lim); if we assume that the 1 phase is one phase after use, meaning you can use the power every other phase, that's reasonable to cheap (since charges includes zero END).

[Hierax]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

If that's the case, then it's perfect using it every phase is the +0 Baseline and anything less often down from there, nice!

 

• +0 Phase
  
• -¼ Turn
  
• -½ Minute
  
• -¾ 5 Minutes
  
• -1 20 Minutes
  
• -1¼ 1 Hour
  
• -1½ 6 Hours
  
• -1¾ 1 Day
  
• -2 1 Week
  
• -2¼ 1 Month
  
• -2½ Season
  
• -2¾ Year
  
• -3 5 Years
  
• ...
  

 

I'd probably tweak it putting in an intermediate step of Extra Phase, like the Extra Time Limitation to make 1 Day be -2 like a regular charge:

 

• +0 Phase
  
• -¼ Extra Phase
  
• -½ Turn
  
• -¾ Minute
  
• -1 5 Minutes
  
• -1¼ 20 Minutes
  
• -1½ 1 Hour
  
• -1¾ 6 Hours
  
• -2 1 Day
  
• -2¼ 1 Week
  
• -2½ 1 Month
  
• -2¾ Season
  
• -3 Year
  
• ...
  

[director13]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

One potential problem with this sort of limitation is that you buy a MP with several different attacks (say a number of attacks equal to your SPD) and limit the whole thing so that each has a 1 turn cool down.

 

You can cycle through the attacks one per phase and you probably end up paying less than you would have for a single slot without the limitation.

 

40 points - 60 point pool with cooldown on each slot (say-1/2)

20 points - 5 ultra slots all with cooldown (-1/2)

 

Total 60 points (the same as a single slot without cooldown)

 

So, now you have a power a SPD 5 character can use every phase that has various different effects (you can decide what order they happen in) that costs the same as a single attack you can use every phase.

 

It may be a limitation on a single attack power (if that is all you have) it is not much of a lim in a framework.

 

You're better at this sort of thing than I am, but doesn't 5er specifically give an example of extra time working like charges? So if you added the limitation to the MP itself, you'd have to wait for the whole MP to "cool down" before you could use it again? In this case putting the limitation on the MP AND the slots gives you a 2x cooldown limitation (potentially allowing you to create slots with 3 or 4x for more restricted points)?

[Hierax]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

Like any MPP, if you applied the Limitation to the MPP itself you'd have to wait for the MPP to recharge/warmup before you could use any of the slots; but if you applied it to all of the slots then you could use each of them with separate cooldown/warmups; if you applied the Limitation to some slots and not others then only the Limited slots would be limited. What am I missing?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

See this old thread:

Slow recharge rate?

 

And from the FAQ:

 

Q: I’d like to build a weapon for my character that has a “cool-down” period between uses. How can I represent this?

 

A: With Extra Time, more specifically defined: Extra Time (must have been at least [X interval of time] since last use). The value depends upon the shortest possible interval between uses, and since it won’t affect the first use in most encounters, the GM will probably want to reduce the value slightly.

[Ice9]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

Re: MPs, if you just applied to the slots separately, not the pool, you'd only be a getting a minor cost savings. I guess you could put "Variable Limitation" on the entire pool, but then you're only getting half the limitation value, which seems reasonable.

[Klaus Mogensen]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

The easiest way is to have an END Reserve for the power' date=' with just enough END for one use and a suitably slow recharge rate.[/quote']

As Sean pointed out, this is more expensive than just buying the power straight. So here's a variant:

 

Power is bought with Increased END Cost. The END is drawn from an END Reserve with just enough END for one use.

 

Example:

16d6 EB, x10 END Cost (-4): 16 points

END Reserve (80 END, 4 REC): 12 points

Total cost: 28 points

It takes 4 minutes to fully recover the Reserve.

 

- Klaus

 

Edit: Corrected numbers

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

As Sean pointed out' date=' this is more expensive than just buying the power straight.[/quote']

 

The END reserve effectively grants 0 END for free, so it's not really more expensive.

 

You could buy a 12d6 Energy Blast, feeds from END reserve (+0), costs END (so the character must pay 6 personal END when he uses it as well) for 40 points. A 6 point END reserve with 6 REC costs 7 points, so the cost has been reduced 13 points for a 1 turn cooldown period.

 

Extra Time, 1 turn would be a -1 1/4 limitation, so the power would cost 27 points (33 point savings). If Extra Time were Only to Activate, the cost would be 40 points (20 point savings).

 

None of these capture the real effect. Cooldown Time is more limiting than the END Reserve, since the power will always be available at the start of the next turn regardless of when it was previously used. That approach cannot simulate a cooldown period of a phase or two.

 

I think it's reasonable to consider this a variant of Extra Time, similar to "Only to Activate", and use half the Extra Time limitation.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

See this old thread:

Slow recharge rate?

 

And from the FAQ:

 

I looked at the rules last night and I'm thinking that with a -1/4 less lim. would be fair. (Its a -1/2 lim. less if you have a weapon which takes extra time to setup but then can be used each phase to attack thereafter. Exsample were a majic wand or a cannon.)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

I looked at the rules last night and I'm thinking that with a -1/4 less lim. would be fair. (Its a -1/2 lim. less if you have a weapon which takes extra time to setup but then can be used each phase to attack thereafter. Exsample were a majic wand or a cannon.)

 

It's not reduced by 1/2, it's halved. That is, -1/2 becomes -1/4, and -4 becomes -2. While the need to wait for recharge every time is more limiting than this, the ability to get the first shot off without waiting any extra time is less limiting, so I would suggest the two can be reasonably equated.

 

Alernatively, we could use the Activation rules as our guide. With the exception of 8-, the difference between Burnout and Jammed is always 3/4. The Cooldown variant of Extra Time allows the first use without any extra time, just as Burnout and Jammed are identical except that Burnout allows the first shot to work without jamming.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

There's another difference for attack powers. Normally you can't use a second attack power while you are waiting for the first to activate, so the Extra Time effectively acts as a form of Lockout during the activation period. It sounds like this cool down version isn't going to include such a lockout.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

It's not reduced by 1/2, it's halved.

 

Oops my bad... I knew there was a 1/2 somewhere though.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

See this old thread:

Slow recharge rate?

 

And from the FAQ:

 

Extra Time as written does not work well for attack powers: you can not take any other action while the power 'warms up'. Never really did understand the need for the distinction, but there it is...obviously the GM can decide that it works in a different way, but that is how it works in it s 'base form' IIRC...or what Pres said

[Sean Waters]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

As Sean pointed out, this is more expensive than just buying the power straight. So here's a variant:

 

Power is bought with Increased END Cost. The END is drawn from an END Reserve with just enough END for one use.

 

Example:

16d6 EB, x10 END Cost (-4): 16 points

END Reserve (120 END, 6 REC): 12 points

Total cost: 34 points

It takes 4 minutes to fully recover the Reserve.

 

- Klaus

 

Nice approach.

[Klaus Mogensen]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

You could buy a 12d6 Energy Blast, feeds from END reserve (+0), costs END (so the character must pay 6 personal END when he uses it as well) for 40 points. A 6 point END reserve with 6 REC costs 7 points, so the cost has been reduced 13 points for a 1 turn cooldown period.

[...]

None of these capture the real effect. Cooldown Time is more limiting than the END Reserve, since the power will always be available at the start of the next turn regardless of when it was previously used. That approach cannot simulate a cooldown period of a phase or two.

I believe the rules say that the GM can allow recovery of END Reserves to be allocated over a period of time rather than in lumps at intervals. So you could e.g. have a 12 REC Reserve that recovers 1 END every phase.

 

- Klaus

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

How 'bout Extra Time plus Delayed Effect? That way, you do the "preparation" before the adventure starts, and you get your one shot. Then you have to go thru the Extra Time prep again. It's not quite the same thing, I'll admit, since starting the preparation is something you have to actively do, as opposed to just waiting for a cooldown period to pass. And there's also the restriction on Attacks with Extra Time, which is not quite as Sean described it:

 

Extra Time as written does not work well for attack powers: you can not take any other action while the power 'warms up'. Never really did understand the need for the distinction' date=' but there it is...obviously the GM can decide that it works in a different way, but that is how it works in it s 'base form' IIRC...or what Pres said[/quote']

Actually, you can take other actions, you just can't make other *attacks*, and of course there's the exception mentioned in the book (FREd p186) "unless the GM gives permission otherwise".

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

Also from the older thread:

 

Here's a side by side comparison of the 3 major ways this could be done. Charges are only added to the 2nd and 3rd options to show equal utility in the builds.

 

34 Extra Time To Recharge (Option 1): Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); 16 clips of 1 Charge (-3/4) [Notes: Changing Clips normally takes 1 Phase.] - END=[1]

 

43 Extra Time To Recharge (Option 2): Energy Blast 12d6, 16 Charges (+0), Delayed Effect (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4) - END=[16]

 

40 Extra Time To Recharge (Option 3): Energy Blast 12d6, 16 Charges (+0) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, Replace "Only to Activate" with "Does Not Affect 1st Shot"; -1/2) - END=[16]

 

If the player does not want to use charges I see the 3rd option as the easiest to impliment since it is still a 60 active point power like the 1st option.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

..........

 

 

Actually, you can take other actions, you just can't make other *attacks*, and of course there's the exception mentioned in the book (FREd p186) "unless the GM gives permission otherwise".

 

 

You are quite right!

 

This is a pretty major problem in combat though - you'd want to attack normally and use your big gun when you can.

 

I'm not sure that particular limitation should be in place at all: if attack and non-attack powers are treated differently it makes sense for the limtiation value to be different. Also I'm no fan of the 'with GM permission' formula: why lump it ont he GM - give it a cost and have done: everything is 'with GM permission' anyway.

[Klaus Mogensen]

Re: Power "Cooldown": how to write up

 

Also from the older thread:

 

34 Extra Time To Recharge (Option 1): Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); 16 clips of 1 Charge (-3/4) [Notes: Changing Clips normally takes 1 Phase.] - END=[1]

Since this only allows 16 shots in a day, it's not quite the same as a cooldown power, which in theory can fire as many times a day as the cooldown allows. If the cooldown e.g. is one turn, you need 7200 clips to make this work.

 

Besides, changing clips is an action - you can't do anything else while changing.

 

- Klaus