March of the Munchkin

[Sean Waters]

This power:

 

Drain BODY 1 point, Characterstics (+1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +2), Expanded Effect (x8 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+3 1/2) (21 Active Points)

 

Drains 1 character point from all characteristics (or any 'related by sfx group of powers') simultaneously, and costs 21 points.

 

Because none of the advantages used count as 'directly affecting damage' you can haymaker that sucker and do 2d6+1 character points of drain.

 

Ho ho ho.

[director13]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

Half effect against defensive abilities like CON, BODY, STUN?

 

Either way, ouch.

[Sean Waters]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

Half effect against defensive abilities like CON, BODY, STUN?

 

Either way, ouch.

 

 

Good point, but, as you say, 'Ouch'.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

This power:

 

Drain BODY 1 point, Characterstics (+1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +2), Expanded Effect (x8 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+3 1/2) (21 Active Points)

 

Drains 1 character point from all characteristics (or any 'related by sfx group of powers') simultaneously, and costs 21 points.

 

Because none of the advantages used count as 'directly affecting damage' you can haymaker that sucker and do 2d6+1 character points of drain.

 

Ho ho ho.

 

GM: No.

[Sean Waters]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

GM: No.

 

Player: New damage adding rules, get with the programme, shuffler. Wikkid.

[mmshah]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

I believe with the new Increased Maximum Effect on Absorption, that the White Knight Defense can be sustained forever, of course when the points fade your in trouble.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

GM: New damage adding rules, read them again

 

Martial Maneuvers, Haymakers, Combat Skill

Levels, and velocity add damage at their usual

rate — for example +4 DCs for a Haymaker, +1

DC for 2 CSLs, or velocity/6 in DCs. However,

since the Advantages affect how you determine the

Damage Classes in the attack, these methods have

less impact than they would on an un-Advantaged

attack.

 

See 6E2 p102, the example under it even uses Haymaker on an Advantaged attack. That Drain will do 1/2d6 if Haymakered, halved after Power Defense.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

Player: New damage adding rules' date=' get with the programme, shuffler. Wikkid.[/quote']

 

Oh, sure. Did you also see the part in the new damage adding rules where it says "The way these rules work is up to the GM?"

 

Again, the word no is the most powerful weapon in a GM's arsenal, more powerful than all the points in the universe.

[Sean Waters]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

GM: New damage adding rules, read them again

 

Martial Maneuvers, Haymakers, Combat Skill

Levels, and velocity add damage at their usual

rate — for example +4 DCs for a Haymaker, +1

DC for 2 CSLs, or velocity/6 in DCs. However,

since the Advantages affect how you determine the

Damage Classes in the attack, these methods have

less impact than they would on an un-Advantaged

attack.

 

See 6E2 p102, the example under it even uses Haymaker on an Advantaged attack. That Drain will do 1/2d6 if Haymakered, halved after Power Defense.

 

Player: Start reading earlier The list of advantages that affect damage adds is on page 98. The example on page 102 uses modifiers from that list, the above example doesn't. 2d6+1, only halved after defences where it affects defensive powers, and most characteristics aren't.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

You are claiming that making the target take damage to 8 characteristics does not directly affect the way they take damage? That list only includes advantages listed under the Advantages section, not advantages listed under specific powers or classes of powers.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

Oh, and even without that, the sidebar on page 99 very specifically tells you not to do this.

[Balabanto]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

In any case, it has to be 8 different characteristics, so no. You can't buy 8 different characteristics as the same characteristic eight times.

[mattingly]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

It's cooler to put Autofire on your Haymaker, so you can add those 4d6 five times.

[Sean Waters]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

You are claiming that making the target take damage to 8 characteristics does not directly affect the way they take damage? That list only includes advantages listed under the Advantages section' date=' not advantages listed under specific powers or classes of powers.[/quote']

 

 

Er, no, I'm not: the rules are. I didn't write them. If I had we wouldn't be having this conversation. The list is the list. I didn't write that either.

[Sean Waters]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

Oh, sure. Did you also see the part in the new damage adding rules where it says "The way these rules work is up to the GM?"

 

Again, the word no is the most powerful weapon in a GM's arsenal, more powerful than all the points in the universe.

 

I use that word all the time - but I was really pleased to see a bit in 6e that mentions that 'yes' can be equally powerful. However, generally, I'd prefer to have the rules there for most common situations without having to make decisions, and in all seriousness I'm slightly disappointed that this isn't tighter.

[Sean Waters]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

It's cooler to put Autofire on your Haymaker' date=' so you can add those 4d6 five times.[/quote']

 

Big ba-da-boom...boom...boom...boom...boom

[ghost-angel]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

*Target Moves* Haymaker Misses.

 

That looked nasty. . .

[Sean Waters]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

*Target Moves* Haymaker Misses.

 

That looked nasty. . .

 

I'm not saying there are not problems, but if you cost 2d6+1 drain (as above) and include 'takes an extra segment' and 'reduces DCV by 5' (the latter a custom lim or a variation on concentration), you are still getting massive utility for your drain...and you might well have a team mate with an entangle you can attack through...

 

The point of the post was to point out one problem. I did not go looking for it - I really just lit on 'Haymaker: Drain +2d6' and started extrapolating.

 

There are clearly advantages which substantially add to combat utility even if they do not directly affect damage. Maybe the list needs expanding.

[GamePhil]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

While it might have been nice for this to be mentioned specifically, it very clearly increases the damage done by the base Power, so it should follow those rules anyway. It does say that the final list is up to the GM.

 

I'd like to say it was because it was specific to Adjustment Powers that it got left out, but Increased Stun Multiple is in the official list.

[secretID]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

I don't have 6e yet, and I've only glanced at a few discussions, but I keep asking myself: Why didn't Steve run a draft of the rules changes past these boards, or a select portion? I understand that there was a huge discussion of possibilities, but once the big decisions were made, why not put out a beta?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

I don't have 6e yet' date=' and I've only glanced at a few discussions, but I keep asking myself: Why didn't Steve run a draft of the rules changes past these boards, [b']or a select portion?[/b]

 

He did.

[secretID]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

He did.

 

Ah. The timing didn't seem right. It seemed like a very long time in open discussions (which were far, FAR too disorganized for me to think about joining), and then surprisingly little time in writing and editing. But I wasn't paying very close attention.

[archermoo]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

I don't have 6e yet' date=' and I've only glanced at a few discussions, but I keep asking myself: Why didn't Steve run a draft of the rules changes past these boards, or a select portion? I understand that there was a huge discussion of possibilities, but once the big decisions were made, why not put out a beta?[/quote']

 

He did.

 

Yup. It wasn't for playtesting, but any reasonable amount of playtesting wouldn't have been possible in the time frame available. I mean, the physical book already didn't make it in time for GenCon.

[archermoo]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

Ah. The timing didn't seem right. It seemed like a very long time in open discussions (which were far' date=' FAR too disorganized for me to think about joining), and then surprisingly little time in writing and editing. But I wasn't paying very close attention.[/quote']

 

Steve is a very fast writer.

[ghost-angel]

Re: March of the Munchkin

 

While the 6E Discussion was helpful and good - running a draft past the boards would have caused more issues than it resolved - too many voices with too many opinions - and would have taken way too long.

 

He did put together a small group of people he called SETAC (Sixth Edition Technical Advisory Committee) that ranged from old hero players from 1st Ed to new players with no history past 5th Ed. to bounce ideas off of. Even then we only had a limited time to work with Steve, and were still a good dozen or more voices for him to contend with.

 

There is such a thing as too many cooks in the kitchen and ultimately a game need a sinle person to lead it's design.