Sean Waters Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 This power: Drain BODY 1 point, Characterstics (+1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +2), Expanded Effect (x8 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+3 1/2) (21 Active Points) Drains 1 character point from all characteristics (or any 'related by sfx group of powers') simultaneously, and costs 21 points. Because none of the advantages used count as 'directly affecting damage' you can haymaker that sucker and do 2d6+1 character points of drain. Ho ho ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
director13 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin Half effect against defensive abilities like CON, BODY, STUN? Either way, ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin Half effect against defensive abilities like CON, BODY, STUN? Either way, ouch. Good point, but, as you say, 'Ouch'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin This power: Drain BODY 1 point, Characterstics (+1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 6 Hours; +2), Expanded Effect (x8 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+3 1/2) (21 Active Points) Drains 1 character point from all characteristics (or any 'related by sfx group of powers') simultaneously, and costs 21 points. Because none of the advantages used count as 'directly affecting damage' you can haymaker that sucker and do 2d6+1 character points of drain. Ho ho ho. GM: No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin GM: No. Player: New damage adding rules, get with the programme, shuffler. Wikkid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmshah Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin I believe with the new Increased Maximum Effect on Absorption, that the White Knight Defense can be sustained forever, of course when the points fade your in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireg0lem Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin GM: New damage adding rules, read them again Martial Maneuvers, Haymakers, Combat Skill Levels, and velocity add damage at their usual rate — for example +4 DCs for a Haymaker, +1 DC for 2 CSLs, or velocity/6 in DCs. However, since the Advantages affect how you determine the Damage Classes in the attack, these methods have less impact than they would on an un-Advantaged attack. See 6E2 p102, the example under it even uses Haymaker on an Advantaged attack. That Drain will do 1/2d6 if Haymakered, halved after Power Defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin Player: New damage adding rules' date=' get with the programme, shuffler. Wikkid.[/quote'] Oh, sure. Did you also see the part in the new damage adding rules where it says "The way these rules work is up to the GM?" Again, the word no is the most powerful weapon in a GM's arsenal, more powerful than all the points in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin GM: New damage adding rules, read them again Martial Maneuvers, Haymakers, Combat Skill Levels, and velocity add damage at their usual rate — for example +4 DCs for a Haymaker, +1 DC for 2 CSLs, or velocity/6 in DCs. However, since the Advantages affect how you determine the Damage Classes in the attack, these methods have less impact than they would on an un-Advantaged attack. See 6E2 p102, the example under it even uses Haymaker on an Advantaged attack. That Drain will do 1/2d6 if Haymakered, halved after Power Defense. Player: Start reading earlier The list of advantages that affect damage adds is on page 98. The example on page 102 uses modifiers from that list, the above example doesn't. 2d6+1, only halved after defences where it affects defensive powers, and most characteristics aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireg0lem Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin You are claiming that making the target take damage to 8 characteristics does not directly affect the way they take damage? That list only includes advantages listed under the Advantages section, not advantages listed under specific powers or classes of powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireg0lem Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin Oh, and even without that, the sidebar on page 99 very specifically tells you not to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin In any case, it has to be 8 different characteristics, so no. You can't buy 8 different characteristics as the same characteristic eight times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin It's cooler to put Autofire on your Haymaker, so you can add those 4d6 five times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin You are claiming that making the target take damage to 8 characteristics does not directly affect the way they take damage? That list only includes advantages listed under the Advantages section' date=' not advantages listed under specific powers or classes of powers.[/quote'] Er, no, I'm not: the rules are. I didn't write them. If I had we wouldn't be having this conversation. The list is the list. I didn't write that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin Oh, sure. Did you also see the part in the new damage adding rules where it says "The way these rules work is up to the GM?" Again, the word no is the most powerful weapon in a GM's arsenal, more powerful than all the points in the universe. I use that word all the time - but I was really pleased to see a bit in 6e that mentions that 'yes' can be equally powerful. However, generally, I'd prefer to have the rules there for most common situations without having to make decisions, and in all seriousness I'm slightly disappointed that this isn't tighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin It's cooler to put Autofire on your Haymaker' date=' so you can add those 4d6 five times.[/quote'] Big ba-da-boom...boom...boom...boom...boom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin *Target Moves* Haymaker Misses. That looked nasty. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin *Target Moves* Haymaker Misses. That looked nasty. . . I'm not saying there are not problems, but if you cost 2d6+1 drain (as above) and include 'takes an extra segment' and 'reduces DCV by 5' (the latter a custom lim or a variation on concentration), you are still getting massive utility for your drain...and you might well have a team mate with an entangle you can attack through... The point of the post was to point out one problem. I did not go looking for it - I really just lit on 'Haymaker: Drain +2d6' and started extrapolating. There are clearly advantages which substantially add to combat utility even if they do not directly affect damage. Maybe the list needs expanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin While it might have been nice for this to be mentioned specifically, it very clearly increases the damage done by the base Power, so it should follow those rules anyway. It does say that the final list is up to the GM. I'd like to say it was because it was specific to Adjustment Powers that it got left out, but Increased Stun Multiple is in the official list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretID Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin I don't have 6e yet, and I've only glanced at a few discussions, but I keep asking myself: Why didn't Steve run a draft of the rules changes past these boards, or a select portion? I understand that there was a huge discussion of possibilities, but once the big decisions were made, why not put out a beta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin I don't have 6e yet' date=' and I've only glanced at a few discussions, but I keep asking myself: Why didn't Steve run a draft of the rules changes past these boards, [b']or a select portion?[/b] He did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretID Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin He did. Ah. The timing didn't seem right. It seemed like a very long time in open discussions (which were far, FAR too disorganized for me to think about joining), and then surprisingly little time in writing and editing. But I wasn't paying very close attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin I don't have 6e yet' date=' and I've only glanced at a few discussions, but I keep asking myself: Why didn't Steve run a draft of the rules changes past these boards, or a select portion? I understand that there was a huge discussion of possibilities, but once the big decisions were made, why not put out a beta?[/quote'] He did. Yup. It wasn't for playtesting, but any reasonable amount of playtesting wouldn't have been possible in the time frame available. I mean, the physical book already didn't make it in time for GenCon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin Ah. The timing didn't seem right. It seemed like a very long time in open discussions (which were far' date=' FAR too disorganized for me to think about joining), and then surprisingly little time in writing and editing. But I wasn't paying very close attention.[/quote'] Steve is a very fast writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Re: March of the Munchkin While the 6E Discussion was helpful and good - running a draft past the boards would have caused more issues than it resolved - too many voices with too many opinions - and would have taken way too long. He did put together a small group of people he called SETAC (Sixth Edition Technical Advisory Committee) that ranged from old hero players from 1st Ed to new players with no history past 5th Ed. to bounce ideas off of. Even then we only had a limited time to work with Steve, and were still a good dozen or more voices for him to contend with. There is such a thing as too many cooks in the kitchen and ultimately a game need a sinle person to lead it's design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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