Group Immunity

[IndianaJoe3]

One of my players wants to have his character's teammates share his Personal Immunity to his Darkness. I suspect the canonical build would be to buy PI as a Naked Advantage, Usable Simultaneously, but I was wondering if there was a less complicated way to do this.

[Daltwisney]

Re: Group Immunity

 

I'm not sure I'd allow it as a Naked Advantage version of PI, UOO. Usable by others is usually reserved for a power construct and not simply an advantage.

One way you might get around it would be to build the darkness with PI, then buy Usable Simultaneously as a Naked Advantage, with the Limitation that they couldn't actually use the Darkness power themselves.

I'm not sure on the SFX of this character's Darkness ability, so I don't know the reason behind "my teammates should be immune to it", but I'd be hesitant to allow it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Naked Advantage is a Power. It's the most straightforward method really, making it the easiest to work with.

 

As for allowing it, it does sound a bit like a way to bypass certain limitations. Though, it almost sounds like the player would like Area Of Effect Flash more than Darkness, though they may be trying to sustain the duration further than Flash goes.

[Lucius]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Other ways, yes.

 

Simpler ways, maybe not.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Immune to the palindromedary & vice versa

[Ice9]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Well, it's not really a different way, but maybe easier to record:

* Personal immunity is +1/4, therefore +25% cost.

* Making it Usable Simultaneously (8 people) would be +1, therefore double the points (+50% cost).

* +1/2 is also +50% of the cost.

 

So you could just double the advantage to +1/2 and call it good.

[Daltwisney]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Well, it's not really a different way, but maybe easier to record:

* Personal immunity is +1/4, therefore +25% cost.

* Making it Usable Simultaneously (8 people) would be +1, therefore double the points (+50% cost).

* +1/2 is also +50% of the cost.

 

So you could just double the advantage to +1/2 and call it good.

 

Not really accurate unless you are just short-cutting the description on the NA, which then ends up not telling you what it does.

 

25 Darkness, 4mR, PI (25 active) (assuming he always wants to be immune to his own Darkness, which should probably be required in this case)

12 Naked Advantage, PI (+1/4), Usable by up to 8 people simultaneously (+1)

 

If you are talking about doubling the PI advantage on the Power itself, changing PI to 1/2 makes the base power 30 Active (7 points cheaper than the NA version), even adding an additional (+1/2) for a total of (+3/4) only makes it 35, and the higher the Active points go, the greater the disparity.

[Ice9]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Why would you need PI both as a standard and naked advantage? Usable Simultaneously can include yourself as one of the eight people.

 

So we have:

20 Darkness, 4mR

10 Naked Advantage: PI (+1/4), Usable by up to 8 people simultaneously (+1)

 

30 Darkness, 4mR, PI (up to 8 people; +1/2)

Same cost.

 

Now whether it's a fair cost is another matter. It is a bit cheaper than Accurate Selective (+3/4), and doesn't require knowing exactly where your team-mates are; on the other hand, you can't exempt bystanders. I think I'd require that the immunity be designated as a separate action from the Darkness itself, with the normal range limits of UbO (you could still do it ahead of time, but you can't instantly include a new ally or bystander).

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Group Immunity

 

I've been thinking some more about this. Right now I'm leaning towards letting the other players buy Personal Immunity to this power as a Naked Advantage. It's reasonable, given the SFX involved. Any thoughts on this?

[Daltwisney]

Re: Group Immunity

 

I've been thinking some more about this. Right now I'm leaning towards letting the other players buy Personal Immunity to this power as a Naked Advantage. It's reasonable' date=' given the SFX involved. Any thoughts on this?[/quote']

 

I can't really comment on the applicability (we haven't heard the SFX involved), but if you feel that is fair House Rule for your game, it would certainly allow you to accomplish your objective. In fact, if the character has a long-standing Nemesis (or Hunted), they may even have studied the character enough to develop this as well. I would just advise caution in letting people buy Personal Immunities (as opposed to defenses) vs other Character's (PC or NPC) powers.

[Rapier]

Re: Group Immunity

 

No, I don't think so.

 

Firstly there is the fact that it's called Personal Immunity, thus implying some kind of self involvement. Oh, I know, don't get caught up in the names.

 

If the other players developed some kind of Enhanced Senses that allowed them to see through the Darkness, that would probably work, but I seriously doubt I would ever allow on player to buy some kind of immunity to another player's power. Darkness has a downside. It's supposed to.

 

If the character REALLY wanted their Darkness to be transparent to his comrades, he should build it so.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Well, we really aren't talking about another character buying an immunity to another character's ability.

 

We're talking about one character granting immunity to their abilities. And yes - don't get caught up in Names. Personal Immunity is the modifier used to grant immunity to a powers abilities, specifically your SFX of them. I see no reason why it should be magically exempt from Usable By Others.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Wouldn't it be nice to pay, say, 30 points for a Naked Advantage Personal Immunity that would allow you to pick 120 AP of attack powers to which you are Personally Immune at any given point in time?

 

It seems like a construct easily abused, so I'd be wary of setting a precedent in that regard. I'd be more inclined to allow a Naked Personal Immunity UBO, as that allows the character who paid for the attack power to designate who gets to be immune. Altternatively, depending on the SFX of the ability, it could "not work against X". Those wishing to be immune need only ensure they meet "X", but anyone else who can meet the same criteria gets the same benefit.

 

The nature of the power and the immunity would probably help many of us assess what may be a reasonable build to simulate the desired result.

[Rapier]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Wouldn't it be nice to pay, say, 30 points for a Naked Advantage Personal Immunity that would allow you to pick 120 AP of attack powers to which you are Personally Immune at any given point in time?

 

It seems like a construct easily abused, so I'd be wary of setting a precedent in that regard. I'd be more inclined to allow a Naked Personal Immunity UBO, as that allows the character who paid for the attack power to designate who gets to be immune. Altternatively, depending on the SFX of the ability, it could "not work against X". Those wishing to be immune need only ensure they meet "X", but anyone else who can meet the same criteria gets the same benefit.

 

The nature of the power and the immunity would probably help many of us assess what may be a reasonable build to simulate the desired result.

 

That is what my sleep-fogged brain was trying to put into a coherent statement. Either some kind of Selective Advantage for the Darkness or a PI UBO would be acceptable, but it would have to be the character with the Darkness paying it.

[spaceprincessecho]

Re: Group Immunity

 

I think Selective (look under the Area of Effect advantage for that one) seems like a much simpler way to go about it. Although that does introduce the idea that he'd technically have to roll to hit against all his enemies, but you could easily GM that away if so inclined.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Group Immunity

 

Can I just say you'd have to be utterly insane to allow a PC to have such a power.

 

I mean, think about it: you either design a disproportionate number of villains with enhanced sesnes that ignore the power - not terribly realistic - or you put up with an entire team the enemy can not perceive, effectively halving (or worse) their combat values.

 

Seriously, you'll regret it, almost instantly. I built this for a villain once and, well thank god it was a villain and I could make him do stupid things until the PCs smacked him with a lucky shot and took him down. You don't want to be dealing with that stuff for a whole campaign.

 

Sean 'Doomsayer' Waters

[Ice9]

Re: Group Immunity

 

That is true - but I don't think that the personal immunity is the real core of the problem; it just makes it a bit cheaper. You could already get the same effect by everyone getting Spatial Awareness, Only to See Through X-Type Darkness. Or more plausibly, Darkness to sight group, and the rest of the team all has Radar or other non-Sight-based senses. You want to make it really hideous, add Megascale, but that's not even necessary - even a small radius will put the enemies at a real disadvantage.

 

Which doesn't mean the power can never be used, it just shouldn't be something you can have always on. For instance, if it required the user to concentrate, and could only be used under limited conditions, I think it could be a reasonable ability.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Group Immunity

 

I'm on board with that - if this is something you can just switch on at the start of combat and leave on throughout with little or no consequence it is too - MUCH too useful an effect. Good call.