Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

[Kristopher]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Well' date=' you might have taken a glance at the Wikipedia entry for "Trantor"

 

Stop talking sense, man.

[BlackSword]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

So it's not beyond our comprehension.

What isn't beyond our comprehension? For the 3 trillion number you posited it would require nearly the population of the US living inside of Connecticut copy and pasted across the entire world? So I could have said it better, but I think you got the gist, numerically it is feasible, it is however that population density sustained across and entire planet is at the edge of comprehension.

[Kristopher]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

What isn't beyond our comprehension? For the 3 trillion number you posited it would require nearly the population of the US living inside of Connecticut copy and pasted across the entire world? So I could have said it better' date=' but I think you got the gist, numerically it is feasible, it is however that population density sustained across and entire planet is at the edge of comprehension.[/quote']

 

How so?

[Nyrath]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

What does it matter?

[Kristopher]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

What does it matter?

 

I guess it doesn't, it's just a peeve of mine.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Well, let's fiddle with some numbers.

 

Trantor at its height had a population of 45 billion people. The requirement is 2.3 kg of food per man per day. Multiplying it out, Trantor requires about 1x10^11 kilograms of food a day.

 

A supertanker has a DWT of about 550,000 DWT, which is about 5x10^8 kg.

 

So to supply Trantor, you'd need to have 200 of these space supertankers to arrive every day, minimum. And unload them.

 

Reading the novels, I can make a WAG that it would take about 2 days to travel from one of the 20 agro worlds to Trantor. If I haven't overlooked anything, this would mean you'd need 800 supertankers total, to ensure a constant daily arrival of 200 supertankers. This is 40 supertankers per agro world.

 

This is a bare minimum, just-in-time arrangement. You'd want to have several times this, as a safety reserve. This will allow Trantor to stockpile extra food.

 

Which is probably stored on artificial moons, not because it's rational to do it that way, but because the author thought it was "neat".

[Old Man]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

"That's no moon, that's a...

[Ragitsu]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Could a single climate/habitat world be possible in a ring world superstructure (Halo is a more recent example, but there's also Larry Niven's Ringworld), or would it encounter similar hurdles of believability?

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Could a single climate/habitat world be possible in a ring world superstructure (Halo is a more recent example' date=' but there's also Larry Niven's Ringworld), or would it encounter similar hurdles of believability?[/quote']

 

I'd guess there would be variation if just because these things are so damn big. Also, think of the differances one would have between, say, the shores of an ocean and an inland area - even if both are arguably receiving the exact same amount of solar energy.

 

Humidity and cloud cover are major factors. For example, the total lack of cloud cover (which trap radiated heat) and humidity (water vapur = greenhouse gas) is why many deserts get so dern COLD at night, in contrast to other warm areas.

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

I'm fairly certain that in the end, you are only going to get, a single climate planet in a few certain ways. Complete Artificial Control. Complete Vacuum, in dead space with a ball of rock. Anything else, moving air alone is going to change the climate. I don't even think, if you racked the balls all the way up to a full Dyson Sphere, that you could get a single climate, just because of all the simple processes that pile up.

 

~Rex

[Markdoc]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Hey' date=' that's a good point. If they're shipping in millions of tons of food, does that mean the population is producing millions of tons of crap? What do they do with it all?[/quote']

 

Let's just say you don't want to buy the cheapest packaged food on Trantor.

 

cheers, Mark

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

I wonder what the critical mass of Poo is?

 

~Rex

[Markdoc]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Don't forget invasive species catching a ride with some grains being transported.

 

Invasive species are in for a pretty rough ride when your entire ecosystem is made up of buildings. Apart from infectious disease, that's one thing you probably don't have to worry about.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Realistically speaking' date=' it would be cheaper to just put farms IN some of the buildings than to ship in food over interstellar distances.[/quote']

 

That really depends on how cheap it is to ship stuff. A few decades ago, it was argued that it was cheaper to grow food in Europe than fly it in from Tanzania, but actually ... it isn't. Yes, I know that doesn't sound reasonable - but it is nonetheless true.

 

cheers, Mark

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Invasive species are in for a pretty rough ride when your entire ecosystem is made up of buildings. Apart from infectious disease, that's one thing you probably don't have to worry about.

 

cheers, Mark

 

Yeah but in Sci Fi, is some super nasty Alien version of the Brazilian Wandering Spider for example, really that far fetched? Or, various alien roach equivalents?

 

~Rex

[Markdoc]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Yeah but in Sci Fi, is some super nasty Alien version of the Brazilian Wandering Spider for example, really that far fetched? Or, various alien roach equivalents?

 

~Rex

 

Roach equivalents? Maybe ... but one of the interesting things is that high rises - even in developing countries - don't seem to suffer many of the invasive species problems that low-rises in the same neighborhoods do (rats, roaches, assassin bugs, etc). Most natural species become invasive when transferred to an environment which is like their native one, but different in one or two important ways (lack of competitors or predators slight climate change, etc). However for a natural species, an all-indoors environment would be pretty alien....

 

So - not impossible - but also not all that likely, when you are talking about what might have hitched a ride from an "agricultural planet".

 

cheers, Mark

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

I'm leaning more towards the roach equivalents heh. Day job is in construction and goes from Guv'ment funded LOW income remodels (uggh roaches), to High end High Rises (uggh ROACHES). Not to mention we import a lot of flooring material from all over the world. Get some INTERESTING insects on those crates a lot of time. Had some cool Leaf Bugs and walking sticks one year I kept in a tank at home on the desk for a long time. Pretty much though, if folks are importing food from some place they can eat, I'm fairly confident there is a bug that can come with it.

 

~Rex...Alien Roaches...I seen 'em!

[austenandrews]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

I have to disagree. If the climate is suitable for humans and if there are massive amounts of food and water, there will be bugs, rats and similar vermin, which means there will also be spiders, cats and similar predators. Unless you make a specific, concerted effort to eliminate them (or contrive some inherent technological reason to exclude them) any planet with that much activity will have riders, guaranteed.

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Yep. Space Roaches.

 

~Rex

[austenandrews]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Oops, I meant to quote Marcdoc in that post.

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

S'ok. Folks can scroll up. 99.9999999% of all Star Hero fans are smart enough to do that. The remainder will just try and crucify you for making them scroll.

 

~Rex

[Nyrath]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Yep. Space Roaches.

Yes, a friend of mine had a nasty idea. As it turns out, there are many species of insect that are resistant to vacuum. He recalls several that survived exposure to the vacuum chamber inside an electron microscope. So it probably would not be out of the question to genetically engineer an insect that had a self-contained breathing system which could activate upon exposure to vacuum.

 

Then there is the Bombardier beetle. it's jet can be adapted into acting as a space propulsion system.

 

Now, combine that with organic diamond tipped jaws, prolific reproduction, and an instinct to seek out spacecraft's radar dishes, sensors, and other vulnerable items, and you have a real ugly biological weapon.

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Heh Bring it on the Bugs are the Universes best weapons!

 

~Rex

[Ragitsu]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Invasive species are in for a pretty rough ride when your entire ecosystem is made up of buildings. Apart from infectious disease, that's one thing you probably don't have to worry about.

 

cheers, Mark

 

I am sure hardy species can exist. However, and hopefully, there should be some sort of filtration/biohazard cleaning measures employed on the agricultural planet(s)'s loading docks prior to the stock reaching Coruscant.

[RexMundi]

Re: Are single climate/habitat worlds really possible?

 

Or, a cat.

 

~Rex