6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

[drsid]

Hello all

 

I recently picked up the 6th edition volumes one and two. They are, to say the least, intimidatingly heavy and dense.

 

I am currently running a Shadowrun campaign, but we do not particularly care for the game mechanics in Shadowrun. In addition, my group may venture into other genres and are considering using a generic RPG system (i.e., HERO or GURPS) that we can learn well and eventually use for other genres and settings. The only genre/setting we do not intend to use a generic system is fantasy as we like the D&D 4e system well enough.

 

I have a number of questions regarding using the HERO system and I am hoping other users can address this.

 

1. Shadowrun is not a pure cyberpunk setting as it contains elements of magic. How viable is HERO for incorporating two different genres (cyberpunk and fantasy) into one campaign?

 

2. For those who have experience using published settings, whether shadowrun or otherwise, how easy have you found it converting over to HERO.

 

3. There are a number of 5th edition books that seem approrpriate for my purposes, particularly the weapons & gear supplement, the vehicles supplement, and the cyberpunk genre setting supplement. Are the 5th edition materials compatible with 6th edition. And, if not, how much conversion work is necessary? I realize that there is a conversion guide available, but is that for characters or also for setting issues?

 

4. Are there plans to publish a 6th edition version of the above referenced supplements?

 

5. Is there a source for pre-generated NPC's and such? Alternatively, I can't imagine that every NPC/Villiam is designed as a full-blown character using the full HERO system? What do experiences GM's use for designing NPC's given that only a few stats for them are usually needed for a given contact/engagement with the PC's?

 

I ask these questions in order to gain a basic understanding/review of the system so I can decide whether we should jump full-bore into the HERO system or consider GURPS, instead.

 

Thanks for your time!

[mayapuppies]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Hello all

 

I recently picked up the 6th edition volumes one and two. They are, to say the least, intimidatingly heavy and dense.

 

I am currently running a Shadowrun campaign, but we do not particularly care for the game mechanics in Shadowrun. In addition, my group may venture into other genres and are considering using a generic RPG system (i.e., HERO or GURPS) that we can learn well and eventually use for other genres and settings. The only genre/setting we do not intend to use a generic system is fantasy as we like the D&D 4e system well enough.

Welcome aboard. Judging by your questions and setting preference, you've picked the right system.

 

1. Shadowrun is not a pure cyberpunk setting as it contains elements of magic. How viable is HERO for incorporating two different genres (cyberpunk and fantasy) into one campaign?

Super easy. With almost little effort you can have both tech and magic in a setting, you just have to define the mechanics that make them different from one another.

 

D3 Games is actually going to be releasing a mixed genre dystopian setting this year, Q3 or Q4, called Inceptum Terminus. Plus Blackwyrm games just released Michael Surbrooks Kazei 5 anime/cyberpunk setting.

 

I'd go into the fantasy setting D3 Games has available and the anime/fantasy setting that we have in development but it seems you'll be using 4E instead.

 

2. For those who have experience using published settings, whether shadowrun or otherwise, how easy have you found it converting over to HERO.

Some settings are easier than others, I've converted many D20 feats, CthulhuTech and Exalted with very little effort.

 

3. There are a number of 5th edition books that seem approrpriate for my purposes, particularly the weapons & gear supplement, the vehicles supplement, and the cyberpunk genre setting supplement. Are the 5th edition materials compatible with 6th edition. And, if not, how much conversion work is necessary? I realize that there is a conversion guide available, but is that for characters or also for setting issues?

Still very compatible and very easy to convert. Most of the abilities/powers/skills are still the same with minor changes. Anything drastic that comes up can easily be covered by a quick visit here until you get your feet under you.

 

4. Are there plans to publish a 6th edition version of the above referenced supplements?

I'm not good at this part. A future poster who's more in tune with upcoming products can answer this better.

 

5. Is there a source for pre-generated NPC's and such? Alternatively, I can't imagine that every NPC/Villiam is designed as a full-blown character using the full HERO system? What do experiences GM's use for designing NPC's given that only a few stats for them are usually needed for a given contact/engagement with the PC's?

I may be rare, but I never build my NPC's, whether they're mooks or named villains. But that's just me, others will build entire character sheets for every kind of NPC, most operate in the middle with just a few key characteristics and powers, then fudging the rest as necessary. Most setting books will have sample NPC's available. Then there's Susano's website (I don't have the link here) which has a bajillion characters made on it.

 

I ask these questions in order to gain a basic understanding/review of the system so I can decide whether we should jump full-bore into the HERO system or consider GURPS, instead.

 

Thanks for your time!

Heh, well HERO System of course.

[Rapier]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Welcome, welcome, welcome!!

 

You are most definitely in the right place!!!

 

You've got a good start with the 6E books (both 1 & 2).

 

Hero is very versatile and is very much capable of what you are looking for. In fact, my campaign is running a very ShadowRunny game. There are machine guns, magic and cyberware (but not quite to the full on level as in ShadowRun). Balancing the design of magic vs weapons does take a little effort and some trial and error, but is extremely simple and straight forward.

 

6E is close enough to 5E that the 5E books (and even 4E, although the quality back in those days was pretyt dubious, for the most part) will do you just fine with only some tweaks here and there. Post-Apoc Hero, Cyber Hero, Fantasy Hero, Dark Champions, Ultimate Mystic and Ultimate Martial Artist should probably be on your short list of acquisitions if you want a broad base for genre-mixing.

 

The hardest part will be designing your campaign. Obviously, the ShadowRun system has something that isn't working well for you (otherwise you wouldn't be switching). So you will want to tailor the rules and character builds to fix that. You will also want to throw out some of the conventions within the ShadowRun system, since they won't necessarily make much sense in another game system.

 

Before I forget, there are a couple of books with pregenerated villains and such. However, if you purchase Hero Designer (which you MUST MUST MUST, it will make your life 5000% easier) you can generate (from scratch) a character in a few minutes. Once you get good and familiar with Hero Designer and learn how to use the prefabs and such, you can simply click packages (eg Street Samurai, Dermal Plating) and have them added to the character extremely easily. I do like to purchase the enemies books, because they tend to have some nice backgrounds and some good concepts that are very adaptable, but if money is tight, I tend to shift them down to the bottom of the list since I can very easily create my own characters.

 

We are here for ya, so feel free to ask for any questions and help!

 

WELCOME!

[drsid]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Thanks for the quick response. On the one hand, there is something about the Hero system that grabs me more than the GURPS system (aside from the term GURPS seeming a bit odd to me); on the other, GURPS appears to have various supplements already in place for running a dystopian cyber-fantasy. If the 5e books you mentioned are viable, then this may be a moot point.

 

You mention the character builder software. I will definitely need to pick that up.

[Rapier]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Thanks for the quick response. On the one hand, there is something about the Hero system that grabs me more than the GURPS system (aside from the term GURPS seeming a bit odd to me); on the other, GURPS appears to have various supplements already in place for running a dystopian cyber-fantasy. If the 5e books you mentioned are viable, then this may be a moot point.

 

You mention the character builder software. I will definitely need to pick that up.

 

Not are those books handy, I can direct you to my campaign doc (it's in this thread about my conversion: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/77131-Working-Notes-for-my-Campaign-Conversion-to-6E) which might give you a bit of an idea of what is possible.

 

Getting HeroDesigner also gives you access to The Vault which is a storehouse for characters and things people have uploaded.

[torchwolf]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Hello all

 

I recently picked up the 6th edition volumes one and two. They are, to say the least, intimidatingly heavy and dense.

You might want to check out this 2-Page Introduction which summarizes the game elements pretty well:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/77944-Hero-In-Two-Pages-Complete

It's free to download, print out and distribute to your players at will.

 

Essentially, you don't need to learn more than the sections you are going to use, to begin playing.

Hero system is extremely modular, and much of the text relates to "how to make the system work the way you want it to."

Volume 2: Combat and Adventuring contains all combat rules, for instance, and Chapters 1 through 4 in the Character Creation book contains all you need to design a character.

Volume 2: Chapter 5 (Powers) is actually used to build any cybernetics, weapons, superpowers, spells, or anything else you need to define in your setting.

 

I am currently running a Shadowrun campaign' date=' but we do not particularly care for the game mechanics in Shadowrun. In addition, my group may venture into other genres and are considering using a generic RPG system (i.e., HERO or GURPS) that we can learn well and eventually use for other genres and settings. The only genre/setting we do not intend to use a generic system is fantasy as we like the D&D 4e system well enough.[/quote']

Hero is considerable more intuitive than Shadowrun, especially the Skill System (3d6, apply modifiers if appropriate, then roll your Skill or lower). It can be adapted to use a d20 with high or low roll if you prefer, but I'd recommend the 3d6 low roll personally.

 

I have a number of questions regarding using the HERO system and I am hoping other users can address this.

I'm pretty sure you will receive several answers beyond this one.

 

1. Shadowrun is not a pure cyberpunk setting as it contains elements of magic. How viable is HERO for incorporating two different genres (cyberpunk and fantasy) into one campaign?

It is perfectly adaptable, since it allow you to design both cyberware (including cyberweaponry, dermal implants, skillsofts etc.) and any magic system, to work any way you want them to.

 

2. For those who have experience using published settings' date=' whether shadowrun or otherwise, how easy have you found it converting over to HERO.[/quote']

Very easy. Hero has no preconceptions in the system about what kind of setting you want, and is built to accommodate your personal choices.

I've both played and run Shadowrun, and the Hero rules are by far easier to both use and design new stuff in.

Some Shadowrun conversions have in fact been made on these Hero boards.

 

3. There are a number of 5th edition books that seem approrpriate for my purposes' date=' particularly the weapons & gear supplement, the vehicles supplement, and the cyberpunk genre setting supplement. Are the 5th edition materials compatible with 6th edition. And, if not, how much conversion work is necessary? I realize that there is a conversion guide available, but is that for characters or also for setting issues?[/quote']

Some equipment will work slightly differently, but most of that is covered fairly exhaustively by the conversion guide (actually the guide consists of p20-21 of Volume 1).

In general, the obvious differences are in 6th Edition measurements directly in meters instead of game inches (1" = 2m) and vehicles having separate PD and ED instead of just DEF.

You can mostly use any equipment, creatures, characters or vehicles designed for earlier editions iwith the 6th Edition rules without altering them, just noting if any special attributes, Powers or so have changed, but the changes mostly apply to point costs for efficiency comparisons.

 

4. Are there plans to publish a 6th edition version of the above referenced supplements?

A vehicles supplement is scheduled for next year.

Hero System Martial Arts for 6th Edition is scheduled to be available pretty soon (probably Mars at latest). This might be very interesting to you if you find the Shadowrun combat system a bit too abstract.

 

5. Is there a source for pre-generated NPC's and such? Alternatively' date=' I can't imagine that every NPC/Villiam is designed as a full-blown character using the full HERO system? What do experiences GM's use for designing NPC's given that only a few stats for them are usually needed for a given contact/engagement with the PC's?[/quote']

Actually, p437-440 in 6th Edition, Volume One, lists a selection of generic pre-built NPCs.

Tweaking these up or down a bit and adding Skills, Talents or Perks as desired will give you a useful NPC in a minute or two. As you get used to the scale, it's pretty easy to just jot down the values you need at will. Designing important recurring NPCs you might want to design them as full characters at times, or you may just rip off (I mean, pay homage to...) a published character.

There are also links to several treasure troves of predesigned and/or converted characters for use with the Hero System (most of these for 5th Edition as yet, but you can mostly use them as written with little problem).

 

I ask these questions in order to gain a basic understanding/review of the system so I can decide whether we should jump full-bore into the HERO system or consider GURPS, instead.

 

Thanks for your time!

GURPS also uses a 3d6 low roll mechanic, but in my opinion, adapting the Shadowrun to the Hero system is much easier than adapting it to GURPS. Being a Herophile, I may be biased in this, of course.

[Rapier]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Being a Herophile' date=' I may be biased in this, of course. [/quote']

 

Simply because you like sunshine, doesn't change the fact that it's nice and warm!

[Lucius]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Hello all

 

I recently picked up the 6th edition volumes one and two. They are, to say the least, intimidatingly heavy and dense.

 

Fifth edition could stop a bullet.

 

I am currently running a Shadowrun campaign, but we do not particularly care for the game mechanics in Shadowrun. In addition, my group may venture into other genres and are considering using a generic RPG system (i.e., HERO or GURPS) that we can learn well and eventually use for other genres and settings. The only genre/setting we do not intend to use a generic system is fantasy as we like the D&D 4e system well enough.

 

I have a number of questions regarding using the HERO system and I am hoping other users can address this.

 

1. Shadowrun is not a pure cyberpunk setting as it contains elements of magic. How viable is HERO for incorporating two different genres (cyberpunk and fantasy) into one campaign?

 

I'd say that's playing to Hero's strength.

 

 

Start by writing out how you want things like cyberware to work in general, and how you want magic to work in general.

That way you'll know how to proceed when you actually write stuff up.

 

This will determine things like what Powers can be used with which "special effects." For instance, maybe mages can use Invisibility, but people using cyberware can't. Don't get too hung up on Power names though - maybe, after all, some kind of cybernetic ECM package could be "Invisibility to Radar."

 

And it will determine which kind of Advantages and Limitations must, can, or should not, be used for a given kind of power. For example, if all magic is supposed to be draining to the caster, maybe no spell can have Zero ENDurance Cost. Maybe all cyberware except the simplest things like dermal plating can be disabled with an Electro Magnetic Pulse, and must take "Restrainable." Or maybe instead you define that Pulse as a Dispel Technology Power.

 

 

2. For those who have experience using published settings, whether shadowrun or otherwise, how easy have you found it converting over to HERO.

 

For some of us, you've just described their favorite hobby.

 

3. There are a number of 5th edition books that seem approrpriate for my purposes, particularly the weapons & gear supplement, the vehicles supplement, and the cyberpunk genre setting supplement. Are the 5th edition materials compatible with 6th edition. And, if not, how much conversion work is necessary? I realize that there is a conversion guide available, but is that for characters or also for setting issues?

 

I think it's fair to say that the differences have more impact on character creation than on play.

 

By the way, Hero Designer can switch back and forth between the two editions.

 

5. Is there a source for pre-generated NPC's and such?

 

Of the kind you need for a Shadowrun type game? In a published source, maybe not.

 

But Mr. Surbrook, who posts here under the name Susano and will probably be along in this thread soon, has a website, "Surbrook's Stuff" that has all kinds of characters for all kinds of games.

 

Alternatively, I can't imagine that every NPC/Villiam is designed as a full-blown character using the full HERO system?

 

You'd be surprised....

 

What do experiences GM's use for designing NPC's given that only a few stats for them are usually needed for a given contact/engagement with the PC's?

 

I think most of us have some "generic" write ups handy for different types, and then add appropriate abilities for the encounter.

 

So you can figure out what a given "level" of "mook" is in your game, and then use that underlying character

 

as a bodyguard - add Martial Arts including Block, Grab, Disarm, and Throw, Profession: Bodyguard, and maybe Danger Sense

 

as a biker gang member - add Combat Driving (Motorcycle), Teamwork, Streetwise

 

as a private detective - add Conversation, Shadowing, Security Systems, Stealth, Concealment, Profession: Detective

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

as a palindromedary -

[drsid]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Okay. I've poured through some of the older threads on Shadowrun and cyberpunk settings and browsed through the main rules books. A few thoughts I have, and please correct me if I am wrong, as I brainstorm.

 

The key is to preserve the shadowrun setting, not necessarily do a direct conversion of mechanics and "game play" elements. So, as I consider what is key to the setting, I see the following:

 

a. the presence of the matrix that is accessed only by hackers

b. augmented reality that is pervasive

c. astral space that is easily entered by mages, perceived by some adepts, and non-existent for the mundane

d. the presence of magic as shamanic and hermetic

e. the presence of spirits/elementals.

f. the presence of cyberware and bioware for enhancement

g. the existence of fantasy races: elves, dwarves, orks, trolls, and humans.

 

For example, when one looks at magic, it is the presence of magic in the world that defines Shadowrun, not the mechanics of how it works, per se. The existence of drain is a mechanic to limit the power of spellcasters, but if I can figure out another way to limit their power, I think that I could still maintain the shadowrun setting. Similarly, essence is a way of limiting cyberware; if I could figure out a different HERO system way of limiting cyberware, the setting would still be maintained. Does this make sense?

 

The use of magic as shamanic or hermetic is more of a roleplaying thing in my perception. So, would it be viable to simply make a single spell system and leave the variations to roleplaying?

 

And what of spirits? Keeping it simple, would they simply be followers with some sort of limit places on them?

 

Cyberware as simply powers. For example, a Ares Macrotechnology Wired Reflexes Mark IV (level 3) system would be purchasing some power that gives a SPD bonus; whereas, purchasing a Fuchi Cybersystems Datajack would be purchasing a extra-dimensional travel power that allows entrance into the matrix?

 

Although I certainly don't have the mechanics of HERO down by any means, am I at least grasping the concepts behind how I should be looking at things or am I way off base?

[Rapier]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Okay. I've poured through some of the older threads on Shadowrun and cyberpunk settings and browsed through the main rules books. A few thoughts I have, and please correct me if I am wrong, as I brainstorm.

 

The key is to preserve the shadowrun setting, not necessarily do a direct conversion of mechanics and "game play" elements. So, as I consider what is key to the setting, I see the following:

 

a. the presence of the matrix that is accessed only by hackers

b. augmented reality that is pervasive

c. astral space that is easily entered by mages, perceived by some adepts, and non-existent for the mundane

d. the presence of magic as shamanic and hermetic

e. the presence of spirits/elementals.

f. the presence of cyberware and bioware for enhancement

g. the existence of fantasy races: elves, dwarves, orks, trolls, and humans.

 

For example, when one looks at magic, it is the presence of magic in the world that defines Shadowrun, not the mechanics of how it works, per se. The existence of drain is a mechanic to limit the power of spellcasters, but if I can figure out another way to limit their power, I think that I could still maintain the shadowrun setting. Similarly, essence is a way of limiting cyberware; if I could figure out a different HERO system way of limiting cyberware, the setting would still be maintained. Does this make sense?

 

The use of magic as shamanic or hermetic is more of a roleplaying thing in my perception. So, would it be viable to simply make a single spell system and leave the variations to roleplaying?

 

And what of spirits? Keeping it simple, would they simply be followers with some sort of limit places on them?

 

Cyberware as simply powers. For example, a Ares Macrotechnology Wired Reflexes Mark IV (level 3) system would be purchasing some power that gives a SPD bonus; whereas, purchasing a Fuchi Cybersystems Datajack would be purchasing a extra-dimensional travel power that allows entrance into the matrix?

 

Although I certainly don't have the mechanics of HERO down by any means, am I at least grasping the concepts behind how I should be looking at things or am I way off base?

 

Nope, you are most definitely on the right track! Resistance is futile!

 

In my game I made a marked difference in how Shamanic and 'Hermetic' magic works. Shamanic is nothing but favours from spirits and hermetic is actual spellcasting.

 

I am so very excited for you! THIS is the fun part!!

[Grymour]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Having played and GMed both GURPS and HERO, I can state with some confidence that HERO is better by far.

 

Along the way I too wished to convert Shadowrun to HERO.. and while browsing another site.. I found a complete conversion posted at http://www.starherofandom.com/h_shadowrun/index.php

 

Hope this helps

[torchwolf]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Okay. I've poured through some of the older threads on Shadowrun and cyberpunk settings and browsed through the main rules books. A few thoughts I have' date=' and please correct me if I am wrong, as I brainstorm.[/quote']

We all love that around here.

 

The key is to preserve the shadowrun setting' date=' not necessarily do a direct conversion of mechanics and "game play" elements. So, as I consider what is key to the setting, I see the following:[/quote']

Preserving the flavor of a setting is one of the Hero system's great strengths.

 

a. the presence of the matrix that is accessed only by hackers

This can be done by defining it as either

1) a separate dimension, or

2) a state of perception.

Hero can represent #1 with Extra-Dimensional Movement; and #2 with Clairsentience and some Mental Powers.

Making it accessible only to hackers is simply by having it unavailable except when built using the proper cybernetics.

 

b. augmented reality that is pervasive

Not sure exactly how you mean, but assuming that it means magic, astral phenomena, strange or paranormal critters, diseases, mystic items or even something like the Insect Spirit incursions, all that is easily built using Hero.

 

c. astral space that is easily entered by mages, perceived by some adepts, and non-existent for the mundane

d. the presence of magic as shamanic and hermetic

e. the presence of spirits/elementals.

If you really want to dive into different aspects of magic, the Ultimate Mystic book have extensive treatment of astral dimensions, different traditions of magic, the layers of intrigue in a magical world, and spirits of lesser and greater power and how they can be used as followers, summoned beings, or even contacts.

If you like the Metamagic planes, you should check this book out. I incorporated some of Shadowrun's magic concepts and ideas for my campaigns until I bought that book which expanded things greatly.

 

f. the presence of cyberware and bioware for enhancement

The above mentioned Mike Surbrook has written the soon-to-be-published Kazei 5 second edition for Hero system 6th Edition for BlackWyrm Games; this features tons of cyberware and bioware very suitable if you want predesigned pieces of such equipment and implants.

 

g. the existence of fantasy races: elves' date=' dwarves, orks, trolls, and humans.[/quote']

And of course dragons. There is a Book of the Dragon which features dragons for 5th Edition - it is inspirational and features lots of ideas you can probably use for your fantasy game too.

Other critters: The Hero Bestiary, Asian Bestiary 1 and 2. However, an updated version for 6th Edition is coming up sometime this year, so unless you're in a hurry...

Elves, dwarves, orks, trolls, etc. are easily made with racial templates, i.e., adding some STR, CON, IR Vision and maybe extra resistance to toxins and poisons for dwarves. Allergies would be Physical Complications, Susceptibilities or Vulnerabilities in Hero. Similarly to how Shadowrun does it, really.

 

For example' date=' when one looks at magic, it is the presence of magic in the world that defines Shadowrun, not the mechanics of how it works, per se. The existence of drain is a mechanic to limit the power of spellcasters, but if I can figure out another way to limit their power, I think that I could still maintain the shadowrun setting. Similarly, essence is a way of limiting cyberware; if I could figure out a different HERO system way of limiting cyberware, the setting would still be maintained. Does this make sense?[/quote']

It makes excellent sense.

Published Hero products like the Fantasy Grimoires 1 and 2 contains hundreds of spells (under 5th Ed, but converting to 6th mostly changes some of the numbers) that are assumed to take a toll on the spellcaster and possibly have side effects (nearly every spell has a number of optional designs); the cost to a spell user is usually END, and when you run out of END you can use your STUN until you drop unconscious.

Essence as a limit to cyberware: this idea you can transport to Hero if you like, using a tracking of an implant's Active Points divided by say 5, 10 or 20 and giving penalties to Magic and Interaction Skills when the total exceeds a certain total. This gives you a reasonable limit on effectiveness, and you can use a similar scale for Magic when summoning, for instance.

The usefulness of my suggestions of course depends on whether you want to keep the Shadowrun flavor or if you want to use another system entirely. Using Hero, you can for instance create close representations of D&D spells fairly easily. Take a look at the sample spells throughout the sidebars in the Powers chapter, and p234 in Volume 2 (under the Fantasy Hero genre).

 

The use of magic as shamanic or hermetic is more of a roleplaying thing in my perception. So' date=' would it be viable to simply make a single spell system and leave the variations to roleplaying?[/quote']

Perfectly viable. You could of course define a spell using the Blast Power as a spirit manifesting to attack an enemy (maybe using the Physical Manifestation Limitation), or you can use Summon to actually call a being into existence for a brief while.

The spells themselves in Shadowrun make no distinction in whether they are shamanic or hermetic in source however. Neither do the Fantasy Grimoires I mentioned (should you want to use those to save time).

 

And what of spirits? Keeping it simple' date=' would they simply be followers with some sort of limit places on them?[/quote']

Followers, Contacts, or the Summon Power will all work, in slightly different ways for different purposes. Other Powers using the Physical Manifestation will also work, especially for Watchers and other really limited spirits. The same goes for elementals.

Several exotic types of spirits are easily designed (or you could check out the creature sources I mentioned which have several examples, including many types of elementals).

 

Cyberware as simply powers. For example' date=' a Ares Macrotechnology Wired Reflexes Mark IV (level 3) system would be purchasing some power that gives a SPD bonus; whereas, purchasing a Fuchi Cybersystems Datajack would be purchasing a extra-dimensional travel power that allows entrance into the matrix?[/quote']

You got it.

The Wired Reflexes SPD bonus can be built as either a straight SPD addition, as Aid, or as the Aid option Boost.

The Datajack can be built as Extra-Dimensional Movement. Optionally, you can make the matrix work as a mental space, in which case a datajack can provide Mental Awareness (an Enhanced Sense) instead.

Building hacking, matrix, and cybernetic control as Mental Powers are described in the Advanced Players Guide (advanced, expanded and some optional rules for 6th Edition) which is very helpful if you like tinkering.

 

Although I certainly don't have the mechanics of HERO down by any means' date=' am I at least grasping the concepts behind how I should be looking at things or am I way off base?[/quote']

You have grasped the concepts well it seems to me.

I should probably point out that there are in fact several ways to build most things in the Hero system, but you definitely have got the idea.

 

Oh, and I forgot to say - good to have you here with us.

[torchwolf]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Having played and GMed both GURPS and HERO, I can state with some confidence that HERO is better by far.

 

Along the way I too wished to convert Shadowrun to HERO.. and while browsing another site.. I found a complete conversion posted at http://www.starherofandom.com/h_shadowrun/index.php

 

Hope this helps

Oh my stars and garters. This is truly as complete a conversion of Shadowrun as you're likely to see anywhere.

Negative points: the Matrix is not defined, just copied from Shadowrun. The conversion is perhaps too complete - very good if you want to completely emulate Shadowrun, less good if you just want the setting and flavor. The totems, for instance, suffer from the same arbitrary decisions made in Shadowrun when designing the original system.

Good points: Vehicles, Armor, Weapons, Cyberware, Bioware, Spirits, Elementals, and Spells are very well converted and complete.

 

All in all, very good overview of how the Hero system can look in the Hero system.

Note: Aid (Succor) is now Aid (Boost) under 6th Edition.

[drsid]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Thanks for the link, Grymour ... though, to toot my own horn, I had already gotten it via my google-fu. *grin*

 

With regard to that conversion, I take it that it is based on 5th edition?

 

Thanks for all the feedback and help. I'll need to get to downloading some of the 5th edition PDF's it seems.

[prestidigitator]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Here's another thread where it was discussed. There are some really good links in it. Particularly the one to "Shadowrun HERO" which has a BUNCH of conversion material in it:

 

ShadowrunHero game?

 

EDIT: Oops. Missed that Grymour already posted a link to Shadowrun HERO. Anyway, the other links and info in this thread might still be useful.

[prestidigitator]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

And Cyberspace/Matrix Persona as Vehicle is a thread I started a while ago when I had another idea about implementing the Matrix. How to handle the Matrix is probably the biggest decision in building a Shadowrun campaign IMO.

[Lucius]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

And Cyberspace/Matrix Persona as Vehicle is a thread I started a while ago when I had another idea about implementing the Matrix. How to handle the Matrix is probably the biggest decision in building a Shadowrun campaign IMO.

 

Actually, it would be "How to handle the Matrix, how to handle the Astral Plane, and how to differentiate them" which is a set of related decisions.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary goes both ways

[drsid]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Thanks for the great links.

 

My interpretation of the Hero System is that it appears to be the backbone for a roleplaying system; it appears to be more of a system for designing own's own RPG rather than simply a universal roleplaying system like GURPS, if that makes sense? Heck, with all the toolkiting advice, you can really create your own characteristics/attributes, use templates to make your own races and "character classes/archetypes," etc.

 

One approach would be to use the Powers to design nearly everything, from magic to cyberware, to gear. Using the system, you could design everything, leave the foundation and development opaque to the players, and simply present them with the magic system and a grimoire, a technology system and the related equipment, and a list of cyberware, bioware, and weapons/gear.

 

For example, here is a Powerball spell and this is what it does and how much damage it does. I would use the HERO mechanics to design the spell, but the players don't really need to know the underlying structure.

 

If one does this, however, then quite frankly, it might be just as easy to completely scrap the entire Shadowrun game mechanic system and recreate a new mechanic that simply is set in the Shadowrun Universe. In this sense, one is not converting to Shadowrun, but recreating Shadowrun.

 

Or, recreating a cyberfantasy setting.

 

One the one hand, this sounds like damn fun; on the other, a damn lot of work.

[mayapuppies]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Hero System is exactly that, it's a Toolkit rather than a roleplaying game in of itself.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

The above mentioned Mike Surbrook has written the soon-to-be-published Kazei 5 second edition for Hero system 6th Edition for BlackWyrm Games; this features tons of cyberware and bioware very suitable if you want predesigned pieces of such equipment and implants.

 

Not only that, but Kazei Five is a manga/anime-inspired cyberpunk setting, so it also includes guidelines, examples, and templates for genetically modified/constructed humanoids, mutants, and formidable psychic powers; so there should be plenty of material directly translatable to Shadowrun' s fantasy conventions with minor tweaks and changes to special effects and window dressing.

 

If you'd like to get a sense of what K5 is about, there are two good sources. Author Michael Surbrook has samples from the first edition of the book, and his own campaign using it, on his personal website, here. Mike also put up a thread about the new edition on these forums, including Attached samples and links to previews. Here is said thread.

[torchwolf]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

My interpretation of the Hero System is that it appears to be the backbone for a roleplaying system; it appears to be more of a system for designing own's own RPG rather than simply a universal roleplaying system like GURPS' date=' if that makes sense? Heck, with all the toolkiting advice, you can really create your own characteristics/attributes, use templates to make your own races and "character classes/archetypes," etc.[/quote']

Like Mayapuppies said, it is a toolkit. Your interpretation is dead on, and yes, you can do all those things.

You can even use all the GURPS setting books you want as references.

The Hero setting books are just as extensive as the GURPS books, though, and even more so in certain respects, certainly more so in adaptability.

 

One approach would be to use the Powers to design nearly everything, from magic to cyberware, to gear. Using the system, you could design everything, leave the foundation and development opaque to the players, and simply present them with the magic system and a grimoire, a technology system and the related equipment, and a list of cyberware, bioware, and weapons/gear.

 

For example, here is a Powerball spell and this is what it does and how much damage it does. I would use the HERO mechanics to design the spell, but the players don't really need to know the underlying structure.

It can also definitely add to the rather bland flavor of Shadowrun's spell listings if the Powerball formula the city-slicker mage just downloaded from a Denver filesharing database can actually be either an improved Magic Bolt variant with Explosion or Vandular's Chaotic Corruscations (both from 6the Edition Volume 2, p234), or even a D&D spell you converted, rather than all magical traditions using a generic "Powerball" as in Shadowrun.

You can also have bioware that binds spirits, cyberware that generates telepathic interference, etc.

 

A note on magic: you may notice that Shadowrun's Elemental effects for spells are just the special effects of a Power in the Hero System - you can easily design an EMP blast spell if you like; fetish-required spells have the Focus (expendable or not) Limitation; Ritual Magic have the Extra Time Limitation, probably a Linked Mind Scan to find its target, and a bonus to targeting dependent on an expendable Focus (the material link).

 

If one does this, however, then quite frankly, it might be just as easy to completely scrap the entire Shadowrun game mechanic system and recreate a new mechanic that simply is set in the Shadowrun Universe. In this sense, one is not converting to Shadowrun, but recreating Shadowrun.

 

Or, recreating a cyberfantasy setting.

Yep. An advantage in doing this is that it is much easier to introduce anything new you like and have a pretty good initial idea of how it will compare to anything else. That is one big advantage vs ready-made whole cloth systems. Hero is modular enough to switch out and plug in whole new sections of rules, adjusted the way that suits your campaign best, depending on GM and player preferences, and the point values are there to help you evaluate the effectiveness of everything.

Using Hero for Shadowrun adds several options, as the established limits of the Shadowrun system evaporates (for instance, you can have teleportation spells, redo the cosmology, build spacecraft, etc.).

 

One the one hand' date=' this sounds like damn fun; on the other, a damn lot of work.[/quote']

Yes, quite a bit of both.

OTOH, you can rip off preconstructed elements, NPCs, and whatnot to any degree you like, adjust it a bit to fit your ideas, and use it. As you've seen, much can be found here and on related sites, and many people here love to shoot ideas back and forth, coming up with new and sometimes strange solutions.

As has been pointed out, the Hero Designer software can save large amounts of time and effort in that part, as it also lets you design templates, package deals, and modify prebuilt stuff, all very quickly. You can also combine it with opacity by hiding the builds and writing out your lists with only costs displayed.

 

As Lord Liaden said, do have a look at the Kazei 5 second edition preview - you may just end up using much of that book.

[Susano]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Not only that' date=' but [i']Kazei Five[/i] is a manga/anime-inspired cyberpunk setting, so it also includes guidelines, examples, and templates for genetically modified/constructed humanoids, mutants, and formidable psychic powers; so there should be plenty of material directly translatable to Shadowrun' s fantasy conventions with minor tweaks and changes to special effects and window dressing.

 

If you'd like to get a sense of what K5 is about, there are two good sources. Author Michael Surbrook has samples from the first edition of the book, and his own campaign using it, on his personal website, here. Mike also put up a thread about the new edition on these forums, including Attached samples and links to previews. Here is said thread.

 

Correction: There are not mutants. There are humans, genetically upgraded humans, replicated humans, espers, and cyborgs. You can even combine some of these.

[Susano]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

5. Is there a source for pre-generated NPC's and such?

 

Go here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/index/

 

You'll find hundreds... no, thousands of characters sheets for power levels ranging from around 25 points, to several well over 1,500.

[gojira]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

2. For those who have experience using published settings, whether shadowrun or otherwise, how easy have you found it converting over to HERO.

 

One thing to consider is just don't bother converting at all. For NPCs, 5th ed. characters will work just fine. Their point totals will be off, but for an NPC who cares?

 

I don't have 6e myself yet, but I can read 6e character sheets just fine. The two systems are really close, just incremental improvements really.

 

3. There are a number of 5th edition books that seem approrpriate for my purposes, particularly the weapons & gear supplement, the vehicles supplement, and the cyberpunk genre setting supplement. Are the 5th edition materials compatible with 6th edition. And, if not, how much conversion work is necessary? I realize that there is a conversion guide available, but is that for characters or also for setting issues?

One supplement I haven't seen mentioned is Urban Fantasy. Why? Steve actually did Shadowrun's magic system with Hero rules. Better, he improved it. There's different traditions of hermetic mages, including rune magic, Hindu magic, Voodoo, blood magic, black magic, all along with the regular spells from Shadowrun converted into Hero terms. There's the shamanistic magic in there too. It's a real eye-opener how to manipulate the Hero system.

 

Note that Urban Fantasy is modern in it's setting. No cyberware, and no future tech. But the magic system will get your conversion going at least. Also note that the setting (called "6th Sun") is a mini setting, it doesn't take up the whole book. But the spell system looked pretty darn complete to me.

[Rapier]

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun)

 

Note that Urban Fantasy is modern in it's setting. No cyberware' date=' and no future tech. But the magic system will get your conversion going at least. Also note that the setting (called "6th Sun") is a mini setting, it doesn't take up the whole book. But the spell system looked pretty darn complete to me.[/quote']

 

Actually, the Magic System is the part that requires all the thought and work. Cyberware, especially, is incredibly easy (eg +1 SPD, +3 DEF, etc with just an IIF Cyberware).