Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Basing the argument to use Powers to model abilities that can also be modeled with Skills on how another RPG system does it seems a bit hollow.

[Ice9]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

That was specifically in response to Tasha's claim that anything modelled as a power was some "newfangled trend", with no precedent in anything prior to 3E D&D. I'm not sure how the OD&D Magic-User fits into that "Skills-n-Talents" model, but whatever.

 

In every other post, I've been basing it on the fact that there are a lot of genre-appropriate abilities that are best modelled as powers. And also the fact that there are Heroic genres other than low fantasy.

[casualplayer]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

No one, and I repeat no one, has said "Don't use Powers." I mentioned that most Powers are only effectively defended against by other Powers, so if you allow in the offense you also need to strongly consider allowing in the defense. If your game doesn't use Adjustment Powers, no one needs Power Defense but if you do use them you have to weigh what being defenseless against them might entail. There's a GM decision to be made at the onset of the game so that a player doesn't spend (or neglect to spend) points in a way that's going to diminish their enjoyment of the game or that of the other players.

 

All Powers in a Heroic game, IMO, should be treated as Magnifying Glass abilities. Not Stopsign. Lots of innocuous little abilities are as devastating to certain scenes as Danger Sense to an ambush.

 

Vondy mentioned that Skills counteract and interact with Skills best. Similarly CVs interact with CVs. Hero is made up of several parallel rules structures that can mingle but work best within their own domain.

[Greywind]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Basing the argument to use Powers to model abilities that can also be modeled with Skills on how another RPG system does it seems a bit hollow.

Expecting one system to do what another does in a totally different matter is pretty much the norm.

[Tasha]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Sneak attack could be expressed with just Combat Skill Levels or just by using the existing surprise rules. Find Traps was always a Good Perception roll with Security Systems as a complementary skill. Multiple attacks are usually expressed by having a higher than base Spd. Using autofire was something that no one thought of, because in those days we didn't think of powers being for anything by Magic Spells/effects and Psionic powers. Other than that Powers were for Supers.

 

Magic items are different and the ones based on powers weren't really fighter usable. Also I was talking about non-spell abilities. Magic using powers is a given and I even admitted such above.

 

Again I am speaking from a historical point of view. Remember I have been playing since the dawn of time (or at least the Dawn of the Hero System). We were avid Fantasy Hero players since it was first published and played pretty much every edition of it that has ever been published. So I am speaking about the attitudes of the players I played with and that of the many groups in the bay area that I had some contact with.

 

Now things are much different and people are more willing to use powers to make strange abilities on Heroic Characters. I actually like this freedom.

[Tasha]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

That was specifically in response to Tasha's claim that anything modelled as a power was some "newfangled trend", with no precedent in anything prior to 3E D&D. I'm not sure how the OD&D Magic-User fits into that "Skills-n-Talents" model, but whatever.

 

In every other post, I've been basing it on the fact that there are a lot of genre-appropriate abilities that are best modelled as powers. And also the fact that there are Heroic genres other than low fantasy.

 

NO I DIDN'T SAY THAT! What I said was that with some genre exceptions, it never occured to us to even HAVE weird abilities.

 

Yes there were some genres that it was appropriate for even in the old days (ie Fantasy Magic, Cyberwear, Psionics and others I am not thinking about). In original Justice Inc (AKA Pulp Hero 1st ed), your strange psychic abilities were purchased using talents. That was really the only book that I saw power like Talents. It wasn't till 5th edition that gave us the idea that talents could be built with Powers. Hell, some talents couldn't even be built with powers in the JI days.

 

Also, Just because we thought that way nearly a decade ago (when 3rd edition D&D shipped). Doesn't mean that we think that way now. Also my Original post was in reply to this post earlier in the thread talking about how in 4th edition days people didn't like to use powers in heroic games.

 

I agree with you that for 5th edition- 6th edition making characters with talent like powers or out and out powers is OK as long as it fits the genre.

[Lucius]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

From a recent "subheroic" (i.e. only 75 pts total) character I wrote:

 

Running +6m (12m/18m total) (6 Active Points); Limited Power Only when diving for cover (-1), Instant (-1/2) Real Cost: 2

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a cosmic palindromedary

[dmjalund]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

I think if you are going to have an Adjustment power as a Talent, you should buy it with an AVAD which exists in the campaign

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Appropos pf nothing in particular...

 

While reading about Brian Boru's campaign against the Norse occupation of Ireland, I was struck by the fact that his men started training, in the fashion of the invaders themselves, to catch incoming javelins and return them to sender. I immediately made a bunch of padded tipped javelins and started practicing with my fighting troupe to learn this skill. It became a favorite lazy afternoon game.

 

Missile Deflection and Reflection are Powers.

 

Am I a Heroic or Superheroic character?

[Tasha]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Well just catching them/Deflecting them is now covered in 6e rules as a default thing you can do with Block. So you are a Heroic Character, if you can do the martial arts thingie of instantly throwing it back, then you would have a Power bought as a talent. So still heroic.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Well just catching them/Deflecting them is now covered in 6e rules as a default thing you can do with Block. So you are a Heroic Character' date=' if you can do the martial arts thingie of instantly throwing it back, then you would have a Power bought as a talent. So still heroic.[/quote']

 

I can do it, but I think I have a limit on the Reflection that I have to make my Block roll by at least 3 points.

 

By the several powers I used writing myself up I suspect my take on the question is obvious

Nice to see deflection finally removed from the Powers section, IMHO. (I haven't got 6th yet, but I have high hopes for my upcoming b-day)

[Greywind]

Re: Heroic v. superheroic genres and the use of powers

 

Can't throw for anything, unless it was thrown at you first?