Xenomorphs vs Cobras

[Nolgroth]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

You know, Xenomorphs are scary creatures. When you are all alone on a ship with improvised weapons and minimal combat training, even one of them can be quite deadly. If you are a small unit force that just happens to have every single thing that can go wrong coincidentally actually go wrong, a horde of xenomorphs can be terrifyingly effective. If, on the other hand, you have some sort of intense combat training, dependable weapons, reliable information, tactical planning, and (most importantly) a script that doesn't contrive some horrific chain of improbably events designed to render all of the above useless, xenomorphs are target practice at worst.

 

Just sayin'.

[RexMundi]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

I think the Xenomorph is a great HORROR critter. Especially if it is run correctly. However, most folks nowadays and the younger generations only really know them from ALIENS, and not Alien, and even then, more from AVP, then even ALIENS. They just have no Scare anymore. Target Practice basically you just don't want to close. And to keep on topic, they would never get close to a COBRA, so COBRA's win.

 

~Rex

[Old Man]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

The only problem with that line of reasoning is that xenomorphs tend not to cluster on featureless desert plains waiting to get picked off by air strikes or other long range fire support. They sneak in to your fusion-reactor-based atmosphere processing station and kill a dozen colonists before anyone even knows they're there, and now Cobra or whoever has to go in there and take out a whole nest of the things in close quarters.

 

Or you can take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, but you don't need Cobras for that.

[RexMundi]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

COBRA's could do it. If you remade ALIENS and replaced the Marines with COBRA's. 1st thing they would do is Space Ripley because she would slow them down, then the rest of the movie is 15 minutes of finding the colonists, 5 minutes of using Burke as bait, and then 15 minutes of whomping anything in chitin.

 

~Rex

[Yansuf]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

1st thing they would do is Space Ripley because she would slow them down' date=' [/quote']

 

If you believe that, I suggest that you reread the second chapter of the first book.

They would probably insist that Ripley (and Burke and the "scientist") remain on the ship and just advise by com link, but they would not kill or abandon any human.

[Old Man]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

COBRA's could do it. If you remade ALIENS and replaced the Marines with COBRA's. 1st thing they would do is Space Ripley because she would slow them down, then the rest of the movie is 15 minutes of finding the colonists, 5 minutes of using Burke as bait, and then 15 minutes of whomping anything in chitin.

 

I never said the Cobras couldn't do it, just that it was more complicated than "you don't want to close". Of course you don't want to close with something that's made out of fangs and acid. But they're not going to expose themselves to 10mm explosive tipped caseless standard light armor piercing rounds either, if they can help it.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

I never said the Cobras couldn't do it' date=' just that it was more complicated than "you don't want to close". Of course you don't want to close with something that's made out of fangs and acid. But they're not going to expose themselves to 10mm explosive tipped caseless standard light armor piercing rounds either, if they can help it.[/quote']

 

The problem is one of reaction speed. Cobras react with the speed of thier computer programed reflexes. The combat sequence (realize danger, locate danger, bring weapon to bear, and perhaps evade attack) by the cobras is one move, not controled by the human brain. The computer detects the threat, puts the cobra on evasive, engages and defeats target... the the cobra picks himself off the floor and tries to figure out what just happened. This is why the cobras where basically forced out of retirement and back to active duty: the computer (which could not be removed once installed) tended to react to everything as combat-related. This lead to deaths of civilians before the cobra could override the system.

[Curufea]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

I think the Xenomorph is a great HORROR critter. Especially if it is run correctly. However, most folks nowadays and the younger generations only really know them from ALIENS, and not Alien, and even then, more from AVP, then even ALIENS. They just have no Scare anymore. Target Practice basically you just don't want to close. And to keep on topic, they would never get close to a COBRA, so COBRA's win.

 

~Rex

QFT

 

If I had $1 for everytime a horror creature is put into a mary sue action fantasy...

[RexMundi]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

I think my thing with the Xenomorphs is that they went from being a progressively, scary Ninja Like monster that struck from shadows and darkness and you didn't know where or when, to being MOBS of Ninja out in the open, wow look at them all! sorta ruined the critter.

 

They're fun in the games, but in the movies, (at least the new ones), they just run around and drool. Comics did a much better job with them, but then the comics went right back for their Horror roots and when they escalated to mobs and hordes, they kept those roots. Now, they're just, part of the Mary Sue Action Fantasy (and dragging my Predators down with them). It could be interesting though, since Scott is going back to the franchise to try and reboot it. One never knows, it could work.

 

As for the COBRA points. We mentioned the jeep incident before. An Alien trying to sneak up on a COBRA just wouldn't work. Can't get the drop on them.

 

~Rex

[Old Man]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

The problem is one of reaction speed. Cobras react with the speed of thier computer programed reflexes. The combat sequence (realize danger' date=' locate danger, bring weapon to bear, and perhaps evade attack) by the cobras is one move, not controled by the human brain. The computer detects the threat, puts the cobra on evasive, engages and defeats target... the the cobra picks himself off the floor and tries to figure out what just happened. This is why the cobras where basically forced out of retirement and back to active duty: the computer (which could not be removed once installed) tended to react to everything as combat-related. This lead to deaths of civilians before the cobra could override the system.[/quote']

 

That's interesting because the smartguns from Aliens (in the book) were just like that--basically man-portable, servo-controlled sentry guns aimed via motion tracker. All the smartgunner did was pull the trigger. I didn't really care for this concept, though, since it really takes away from the gunners if they're just unskilled labor schlepping the gun around. I prefer to think of Drake and Vasquez as the ultimate badasses that they were in the movie.

[Vulcan]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

COBRAs are literally built for the close-quarter fight. Their reflexes aren't just fast, they are computer fast. The merely biologically fast xenomorphs couldn't be fast enough to compete. Add in the heavy laser in the leg and the rest of the COBRAs back of tricks...

 

In an wide-open arena, COBRAs are actually less dangerous than, say, fully-geared up marines with power armor and all. But in tight quarters, you'd have a heck of a time drawing a bead on them.

 

EDIT: Scooped!

[RexMundi]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

The Smart Gun (aka, the M 56 in ALIENS), basically, was attached directly to the Marines HUD, and was capable of tracking the information given to it by the Motion Sensor. While Autonomous, it wasn't as fast (As it had a Marine attached to it it would shred), and while it was in the Marine Rig, the Marine basically controlled the whole deal keeping Drake and Vasquez in the Badass roles. The Smart Gun set up while manned basically allowed Power Steering and Traction control for a weapon system that otherwise needed to be on a Tripod.

 

COBRA's on the other hand, aren't really limited when it comes to their reactions beyond the "Just killed a bunch of kids joyriding in a Jeep..." bit.

 

~Rex

[Old Man]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

COBRA's on the other hand, aren't really limited when it comes to their reactions beyond the "Just killed a bunch of kids joyriding in a Jeep..." bit.

 

Which is why Cobras sound pretty lame, from a storytelling point of view. If they're basically just riding around in their cybernetic bodies while the computer kills everything in range, there would seem to be no skill involved, no risk to Mary Sue Cobra. I'm sure there's more to it, obviously I haven't read the books, but they do seem to be a roundabout way of just nuking the xenomorphs from orbit.

[RexMundi]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

Ah see that's the thing. The COBRA's, are anything but Mary Sue. They have definitive weaknesses, and exploitable ones. Their Skill comes into play with everything else that isn't, computer generated Spider Sense and Counter reactive tactics. Toss in enough Aliens and I can see the COBRA's having issues, (based on issues in the books.) COBRA's Have been slapped around and stomped by things you wouldn't expect, so Mary Sue, is not a term they are deserving of.

 

~Rex

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

The problem we have is genre translations. Xenomorphs come from a universe where human soldiers are little better than modern marines. The COBRAS come from a universe where the typical soldier wears armor better than the MI in Starship Troopers (or the armor from Forever War, also). The COBRAS are the light infantry/special forces/rangers of thier genre. The COBRAs wipe the floor with xenomorphs, Colonial Marines, Predators... because they're written for a different genre. It's not a fair fight.

[RexMundi]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

True that. COBRA's run roughly about the same level as the Predators, though they would be much faster then the Predators, THAT fight, is in another thread and would be pretty interesting (This is utilizing the info from the Predator comics and books).......Genre though doesn't really matter, since the topic nullifies the genre restriction, you just have to go with the information available for both sides.

 

Now you give those Xenomorphs a good running start, and just toss in a squad of COBRA's......I think the Horde factor would balance things out. Even within their own Genre, the Cobra's almost lost out to a Small but vicious and fast bird.

 

~Rex

[gewing]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

COBRA's could do it. If you remade ALIENS and replaced the Marines with COBRA's. 1st thing they would do is Space Ripley because she would slow them down, then the rest of the movie is 15 minutes of finding the colonists, 5 minutes of using Burke as bait, and then 15 minutes of whomping anything in chitin.

 

~Rex

 

jmfo, but I think they would debrief Ripley, then leave her on the ship. They might still take losses, but they would win. those light lasers and the autotargetting, combined with the sensory enhancements and reaction boosters...

[RexMundi]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

True, Even in their Own Genre the COBRA's suffered Losses just like any other military unit. They would definitely leave Ripley behind though, her normal actions of dumbness would get her killed by a COBRA as a base reaction to her being in the room.

 

~Rex

[clsage]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

.... if Care Bears had nukes' date=' they'd be equally effective, and more cuddly.[/quote']

 

Hope you don't mind, but I'm stealing this sentence. It rocks !

 

-Carl-

[clsage]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

I've written up C.O.B.R.A.'s for 1st, 2nd, 3rd edition.

 

While I know that they are "outdated" would you consider posting any or all those versions ? I'd be interested to see how you handled the "No Conscious Control" issues regarding the implanted battle computer unit....

 

Thanks.

 

-Carl-

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

While I know that they are "outdated" would you consider posting any or all those versions ? I'd be interested to see how you handled the "No Conscious Control" issues regarding the implanted battle computer unit....

 

Thanks.

 

-Carl-

 

I wrote it as a psych limitation: overreacts to percieved attacks. Needed to make a ego roll to not return fire at whoever last shot at him.

[Old Man]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

Wait... you mean not everyone is like that?

[Yansuf]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

I wrote it as a psych limitation: overreacts to percieved attacks. Needed to make a ego roll to not return fire at whoever last shot at him.

 

The problem is that they system reacts too fast; an ego roll won't help.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Xenomorphs vs Cobras

 

The problem is that they system reacts too fast; an ego roll won't help.

 

I was using it as a superhero, not a soldier. I wanted the option of attempting to override the system.

IOW, I wrote up a COBRA as a attempted government sponsered superhero, not as a supersoldier.