Powered Suits as Vehicles

[rentauri]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

The powered armor is designed by the player. I also don't see many games that have multiple powered armor users. When they do, their abilities tend to be quite different, and we don't have that "near-identical characters" issue.

 

I thought this was for the Fantasy genre. I'm also somewhat biased by a dislike of "magic as a commodity" Fantasy settings.

 

I normally do Scifi settings so the whole slap whatever power you want and call it some powered armor ability isn't the most common to me. Generally when they are used they are somewhat common in their core build so for my players having ten or twenty (to start) and then having my players modify them as they need isn't something new for my group. Heck they probably will be impressed with my allowing them be more open with my allowing them to modify their suits. This is of course if they choose this.

 

I think you would dislike my setting then because I think I'm heading in that direction with what I am doing.

 

From your initial comments' date=' such as "I wanted was magic to be supremely powerful but to counter this the great Knight that adventures in the land does not do it on a proud steed but instead rides a powerful magical suit of armor", I somehow got the sense that your intent and expectation was that "normal" nonmagical abilities would not allow the character to be competitive. [/quote']

 

The golemsuit is self contained to have all those trinkets, weapons, armors and items of magic that the knight on proud steed might carry into battle with his friend the Archmage to be able to fight effectively. Its basically that the knight rides the suit because it has all the things that he wold have are part of the suit or can be upgraded to have.

 

What prevents a Wizard from using a similar suit?

 

Well I was thinking of having the magic of the golemsuit disrupt the casters ability to summon his power but I think I like it being a social stigma or wizards just look down on it. While the second appeals to me more I think I may go for a mix of both in some form.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Well I was thinking of having the magic of the golemsuit disrupt the casters ability to summon his power but I think I like it being a social stigma or wizards just look down on it. While the second appeals to me more I think I may go for a mix of both in some form.

 

The former is probably the better, since not all wizards are going to subscribe to that same stereotype (if I was playing a wizard and this thing didn't screw up my spellcasting, I'd probably learn to use one if it was at all feasible).

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

 

 

 

Well I was thinking of having the magic of the golemsuit disrupt the casters ability to summon his power but I think I like it being a social stigma or wizards just look down on it. While the second appeals to me more I think I may go for a mix of both in some form.

 

I myself prefer the 1st option but the 2nd would allow the socially unacceptable rogue mage big bad who had both.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Begs the question why wizards would spend all this time developing and producing an item they themselves cannot benefit from, and which actually levels the playing field against them.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Maybe there are artificers who just make stuff that are different from casters who hurl spells

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Maybe there are artificers who just make stuff that are different from casters who hurl spells

 

So why not make things that they can use rather than construct for others?

[Stalin_McRally]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

So why not make things that they can use rather than construct for others?

 

Why do blacksmiths make swords for others? maby becuase if you even have need for one yourself, your own needs would be sated after you made just one, but you would still be non the richer!

 

Of course it all depends on settings, if the said mage could just transform or summon gold, then the need would not exist, and and every market would house a "magik gold" detector so they don't suffer from inflation AGAIN...

 

A suggestion would be that only certain ppl could use magic, and the suit uses a power that is non-compatible with magic as an magic vs alchemy, whereas the mages would say that it is unnatural and vulgar, becuase it makes their services less

desireble in a conflict.

Maby they even go as far as offer their services to a side in

a war that doesn't use suits or even form a anti-tech/alchemy congreation?

 

wich side is the king on? the different merchants? and so on.

 

On a player to player basis it could mean some good adventure hooks and group strains.

Especially if two of the chars were friends before they went their separate ways

and became mage and golemknight.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Why do blacksmiths make swords for others? maby becuase if you even have need for one yourself' date=' your own needs would be sated after you made just one, but you would still be non the richer![/quote']

 

Blacksmiths aren't in direct competition with soldiers, so making swords doesn't make their competition more effective. Blacksmiths don't make forges for other blacksmiths, though. A blacksmith building a sword is also not creating something that he is somehow prevented from using, either.

 

Of course it all depends on settings' date=' if the said mage could just transform or summon gold, then the need would not exist, and and every market would house a "magik gold" detector so they don't suffer from inflation AGAIN...[/quote']

 

If gold could simply be created, its value would drop off. Its own rarity makes it valuable.

 

A suggestion would be that only certain ppl could use magic' date=' and the suit uses a power that is non-compatible with magic as an magic vs alchemy, whereas the mages would say that it is unnatural and vulgar, becuase it makes their services less desireble in a conflict.[/quote']

 

So how is it that a magical suit is non-compatible with magic? Why not build one that is compatible with magic, and use it yourself, rather than build one that is not compatible? Why would wizards spend time researching this incompatible construct rather than researching magic which is at least equally useful to them? For these to be pretty common in practice, there must be a lot of wizards specializing in this "anti-magic". Will magic be similarly ingrained in other facets of mundane life? Building these things must have taken a lot of effort. Could less skilled and experienced wizards make magic suits that help out around the house or farm?

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Hugh, I think you're starting to argue just to argue or the world gets your goat. Your objections are rally losing me. The logic is escaping me. Which is really unusual for you.

 

Just because you're an artificer doesn't mena you're a warrior. I think the comparizon is fine. magic armor and sword makers who aren't casers are a staple of fantasy.

 

You're right on gold but its completely tangent to the discussion.

 

Magic is a fictional thing ( certainly in this case) so it can have rules the GM wants. I don't understand your question. Its not science anyone has to justify. maybe just being surrounded in magical metal cuts you off from the mana. It could be anything the GM wants. I agree magic should be ..well, more magical but if he wants it to work that way, Its his call.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Just because you're an artificer doesn't mena you're a warrior. I think the comparizon is fine. magic armor and sword makers who aren't casers are a staple of fantasy.

 

Such artificers tend to construct very rare magical items for very specific purposes. I've never been a big fan of the commoditization of magic, which doubtless influences my perceptions. Some obviously like it - D&D has evolved into a structure where being able to purchase magic items is an expectation. But then, why only one type of magic item that becomes a commodity? Why, specifically, one that operates at cross purposes to its creators?

 

One approach would certainly be magicians who are artificers, but not themselves adventurers. Then it makes sense that they ally with, and bolster the abilities of, the knights. But it seems from the poster's comments that these items developed primarily as a means of allowing those not magically gifted some means of competing against those that are. I don't see why a significant number of those capable of mastering magic would be so eager to level the playing field that these magical armored suits would become a commodity.

 

I'd also want to know where the boundaries lie. If, to use your example, being surrounded in magical metal cuts you off from the mana, why are there no wizards who use these suits for combat while using their own magic to deal with challenges such combat can't resolve? Why would no wizards use these suits when it benefits them, and cast it off to use their other magic when that is more effective?

 

One problem with transferring genres to games is the need to justify the internal tropes. If a trope of this universe is "knights use magical suits that wizards make for them, but never use themselves, to place themselves on a level footing with those wizards", then I'd want to know why that trope is adopted by the people in that universe.

If the players and the GM enjoy that game, that's great - go with it. I like some internal consistency (and we all have different points that make it more of a stretch to suspend our disbelief).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Maybe artificers practice a different school of magic that has no alliance to whatever school produces "combat mages". Maybe the setting has half a dozen schools of magic that are incompatible and alchemy/artificers are one of them. I really don't see why he should have to explain his world's entire cosmology, or even have it set in stone for himself, before asking how to do something. Obviously you don't like the approach he is taking, but that has no bearing on the conversation if his players do enjoy this style of setting.

[rentauri]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Such artificers tend to construct very rare magical items for very specific purposes. I've never been a big fan of the commoditization of magic' date=' which doubtless influences my perceptions. Some obviously like it - D&D has evolved into a structure where being able to purchase magic items is an expectation. But then, why only one type of magic item that becomes a commodity? Why, specifically, one that operates at cross purposes to its creators? [/quote']

 

I'm not sure if it has or hasn't or how far I want to take the industrialization of magic. Certain items crafted from Alchemy and Rune magic can be common and I have been talking with my players on how common they want certain things and how rare. So how common things are and how I will price a sword that has a rune to ignite the blade in flame I am unsure.

 

One approach would certainly be magicians who are artificers' date=' but not themselves adventurers. Then it makes sense that they ally with, and bolster the abilities of, the knights. But it seems from the poster's comments that these items developed primarily as a means of allowing those not magically gifted some means of competing against those that are. I don't see why a significant number of those capable of mastering magic would be so eager to level the playing field that these magical armored suits would become a commodity.[/quote']

 

Money, the desire to protect their kingdom and in some cases the desire to conquer their neighbors (and in one case the desire to conquer everyone). The first suits were created to protect a kingdom from a monstrous horde and the nation realizing that the suits allowed a trained soldier to kill monsters dead real good and kept them. Other nations saw the potential as well and made their own and they are mainly used by the armies for war, in fact I really don't except the players to be using them unless they wish to play a character with a suit or game focused more on the suits as mercenaries, soldiers and the like. Most likely these will be seen in game as enemies and allies but not apart of the player character arsenal.

 

I'd also want to know where the boundaries lie. If' date=' to use your example, being surrounded in magical metal cuts you off from the mana, why are there no wizards who use these suits for combat while using their own magic to deal with challenges such combat can't resolve? Why would no wizards use these suits when it benefits them, and cast it off to use their other magic when that is more effective? [/quote']

 

That was a shot in the dark, and yes the examples would work. Personally I'm unsure as of yet how or if I want to limit the suits. All I do know is that talking with my players they like the idea of the suits and prefer them to be vehicles.

 

One problem with transferring genres to games is the need to justify the internal tropes. If a trope of this universe is "knights use magical suits that wizards make for them, but never use themselves, to place themselves on a level footing with those wizards", then I'd want to know why that trope is adopted by the people in that universe.

If the players and the GM enjoy that game, that's great - go with it. I like some internal consistency (and we all have different points that make it more of a stretch to suspend our disbelief).

 

Why it was accepted? Honestly I'm not entirely sure and you bring up some points I should consider. It was an interesting idea that both my players and I liked so I added it to my game world. Do I see my players sitting down and playing one of these the first game? Nope, I except one of them will play some character that uses magic to enhance his physical self and his martial combat techniques (similar to a marital artist), another player playing something more along a traditional wizard, one going more druidic in nature and the last one to play something combing along the lines of a paladin.. or I could be completely wrong and they play other things.

 

Bottom line is: They like it, I like it and they asked I add it so its their as an option. The whys and why nots have yet to be decided so far it just is.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

I'm not sure if it has or hasn't or how far I want to take the industrialization of magic. Certain items crafted from Alchemy and Rune magic can be common and I have been talking with my players on how common they want certain things and how rare. So how common things are and how I will price a sword that has a rune to ignite the blade in flame I am unsure.

 

If these full suite combat suits are in common use, it seems reasonable to expect much less powerful (and, presumably, less magical labour intensive to create) items would be much more common. Now, maybe all the wizards are pressed into service to create these magic suits (but that begs questions like why PC wizards aren't engaged in this craft, and how wizards powerful enough to create the suits got pressganged into it in the first place), or maybe, for some reason, these items are much easier to create than less powerful magical artifacts (also begging the question why).

 

For powerful wizards desiring to conquer their neighbors, would they place such power in the hands of their soldiers without a backup plan - maybe some suits have built-in self destructs, or a means for the creator to take control - which could make for an adventure hook on its own.

 

Given the extent to which a trained soldier can be enhanced, why not go one step further and create suits that enhance peasant skill to soldier skill? What soldierly skills are actually needed to run the suit (as opposed to training in actually running the suit itself)? What happens when a more humanoid monster gets its hands on these suits? A Dragon with Goblinoid minions all decked out seems like a rational outgrowth, especially if the skills to create these suits are pretty widely available.

 

I really don't except the players to be using them unless they wish to play a character with a suit or game focused more on the suits as mercenaries' date=' soldiers and the like. Most likely these will be seen in game as enemies and allies but not apart of the player character arsenal.[/quote']

 

Why not? If the items are available, and useful, is it reasonable that the players/characters shy away from their use? If they augment a skilled soldier, why not a skilled adventurer?

 

Why it was accepted? Honestly I'm not entirely sure and you bring up some points I should consider. It was an interesting idea that both my players and I liked so I added it to my game world. Do I see my players sitting down and playing one of these the first game? Nope' date=' I except one of them will play some character that uses magic to enhance his physical self and his martial combat techniques (similar to a marital artist), another player playing something more along a traditional wizard, one going more druidic in nature and the last one to play something combing along the lines of a paladin.. or I could be completely wrong and they play other things.[/quote']

 

So why would those characters not use the suits to augment their abilities? It seems like these suits are a means of enhancing the physical self and martial combat techniques. The paladin/armored knight seems like the classic archetype to use such a suit from your initial description. The wizard and the druid seem less likely, assuming there is some clash between the suits and use of magic. Perhaps the problem is money - maybe these suits are not commonplace, but are more like heavy tanks in our modern military structure, limiting access. Could they have a long-term debilitating effect on the user, perhaps?

 

The first step is probably establishing how common you and your players want these things to be, and who you envision using, and not using, them. If they're omnipresent, they must be pretty easy to make. If they're rare artifacts, they could be a lot more difficult to create. Do they get handed down through the generations as priceless family heirlooms, or traded in like used cars every few years as newer models come out? Do they last forever, or wear out after a few years? What kind of ongoing maintenance and/or refueling do they need? These might all be factors that serve to restrict their availability, if that's the goal.

[Stalin_McRally]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

So how is it that a magical suit is non-compatible with magic? Why not build one that is compatible with magic, and use it yourself, rather than build one that is not compatible? Why would wizards spend time researching this incompatible construct rather than researching magic which is at least equally useful to them? For these to be pretty common in practice, there must be a lot of wizards specializing in this "anti-magic". Will magic be similarly ingrained in other facets of mundane life? Building these things must have taken a lot of effort. Could less skilled and experienced wizards make magic suits that help out around the house or farm?

 

actually it was a suggestion mostly aimed at the "threadmaker" (dunno what it is called).

 

My suggestion is, that you make the "magic-suits" non-magewear becuase i have

ALOT of problems with my current player group who does whatever they can in

order to cheat connive or hoard whatever they can, but if you have more mature players then restrictions gets more redundant.

 

woops whas supposed to be a partial quote from Hugh Neilson =(

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

actually it was a suggestion mostly aimed at the "threadmaker" (dunno what it is called).

 

My suggestion is, that you make the "magic-suits" non-magewear becuase i have

ALOT of problems with my current player group who does whatever they can in

order to cheat connive or hoard whatever they can, but if you have more mature players then restrictions gets more redundant.

 

Actually, one approach would be to deem the Golemsuit not to be mundane equipment. If the characters must pay character points for the gear, that constrains the wizard's spellcasting capability, forcing a choice. It's a more metagame approach, but fits well with the original poster's desire that this be an option to power up a non-magic user. He spends his xp on the suit, and the wizard spends his XP on spells. In game context, though, I'd still like a reason why wizards make these, but can't/won't use them.

 

Here's a thought...perhaps every being has the capacity to use magic, though only some combine the innate talent and training to capitalize on that ability. If the Suit runs off the user's own magical capacity in some fashion, that would certainly seem to discourage wizards from using them. You'd need some ability to measure the capacity to use magic, though, which would govern the ability of the wizards to use magic, as well as the ability of the suit wearers to use the powers of the suit (and which would also be reduced by a wizard using such a suit). Ideally, this would dovetail with the magic system(s) being used.

[Tasha]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

One could argue that perhaps the Magic that Artificers use works differently from that that Mages use (or at least the spells work differently). Perhaps in the Magical Kingdoms Artificers use of the 4 basic elements (ie Earth, Air, Fire and Water) allows the Artificer/Smith to imbue their items with Magic. Artificers work their craft secretly and only their Apprentices know their Techniques. As to why these suits aren't just made on an assembly line is probably for 2 reasons, one no one has thought of an assembly line. Also the parts needs to be put together in a certain way in conjunction with the correct rituals for the Knight Suits to work correctly. Each suit is a one off, custom piece of art. So it may take one Artificer/Smith (and his/her apprentices) over a year to complete one suit. The suits could also require some sort of magical attunement that would require an Artificer/Smith to complete.

 

A Mage wouldn't know the correct rituals or even have the Smithing skills to make such an item. Perhaps also the Artificing Magic somehow interferes with a Mage's Spell casting making it harder or even impossible to cast. This could also be because of all of the steel encasing the Mage. Steel being a natural conductor of Magic, but also a material that tends to absorb all magic. Many magic systems do not allow Mages to wear metal armors for just this reason.

 

I am wondering how much harder it would be to balance the PC's Battle armor against their opposition being purchased this way. I might be tempted to buy all of the armor's powers as a set of Foci that the PC's use. That way it becomes a bit easier to balance the Melee Knight Suits vs Mages. Heck you could even use equipment points for the Knights and for Mage spells/Magic items.

 

This is all a very interesting idea. It sounds like it could be a ton of fun. Taken to extremes you could have the PC out of suit caught up in the politics and personalities of the Kingdom. When the Big Bad comes calling, everyone dons their mega powersuit to go kill the Dragon/ Giant / Monster of the Month. Kind of like the 5 Lions version of Voltron, with better writing for an adult audience.

[Ethernaut]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Just a word of caution: If you intend to have both Wizard and Golemsuit users as player character, beware that the Wizard characters won't feel underpowered to the Golemsuit users. Imo this happens easily if they are built with same amount of character points: Vehicles in practice multiply your character points by five and thus Golemsuit users have 5 times more bang to their character point.

[Fearghus]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Just a word of caution: If you intend to have both Wizard and Golemsuit users as player character' date=' beware that the Wizard characters won't feel underpowered to the Golemsuit users. Imo this happens easily if they are built with same amount of character points: Vehicles in practice multiply your character points by five and thus Golemsuit users have 5 times more bang to their character point.[/quote']

 

Yep... this is the point I made in my first post.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

One could argue that perhaps the Magic that Artificers use works differently from that that Mages use (or at least the spells work differently). Perhaps in the Magical Kingdoms Artificers use of the 4 basic elements (ie Earth' date=' Air, Fire and Water) allows the Artificer/Smith to imbue their items with Magic. Artificers work their craft secretly and only their Apprentices know their Techniques. As to why these suits aren't just made on an assembly line is probably for 2 reasons, one no one has thought of an assembly line. Also the parts needs to be put together in a certain way in conjunction with the correct rituals for the Knight Suits to work correctly. Each suit is a one off, custom piece of art. So it may take one Artificer/Smith (and his/her apprentices) over a year to complete one suit. The suits could also require some sort of magical attunement that would require an Artificer/Smith to complete.[/quote']

 

All of which would be excellent in-game reasons why these suits are limited in their availability, very expensive and can't just be obtained by looting their present owner. But that's not consistent with the sense I got that these things were pretty common (from things like 20 basic models with custom features for later add-on).

 

This is all a very interesting idea. It sounds like it could be a ton of fun. Taken to extremes you could have the PC out of suit caught up in the politics and personalities of the Kingdom. When the Big Bad comes calling' date=' everyone dons their mega powersuit to go kill the Dragon/ Giant / Monster of the Month. Kind of like the 5 Lions version of Voltron, with better writing for an adult audience.[/quote']

 

This would be a level playing field for the PC's as they would each have such a suit, however the OP seems to envision the suit as one option among many, not something universal to the PC's. That makes it crucial that the Suit balance against other character options. The more common the suits are (for PC's especially, but also for the opposition and allies), the more I'd want to differentiate and customize the suits so everyone doesn't look similar or identical.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

All of which would be excellent in-game reasons why these suits are limited in their availability' date=' very expensive and can't just be obtained by looting their present owner. But that's not consistent with the sense I got that these things were pretty common (from things like 20 basic models with custom features for later add-on).[/quote']

Well there's common in the sense that most countries have them and if there is a battle some will almost certainly be there, and then there's common where it's a Model T Ford and almost anyone can afford one. If you are talking about a military game set in the semi-real-world setting you might say tanks are common. That doesn't mean that just anyone can go get one, or could afford one even if they could.

[dmjalund]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Not to be confused with 'Power Suits' as vehicles

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37708[/ATTACH]

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Your pic is broken.

[rentauri]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

All of which would be excellent in-game reasons why these suits are limited in their availability' date=' very expensive and can't just be obtained by looting their present owner. But that's not consistent with the sense I got that these things were pretty common (from things like 20 basic models with custom features for later add-on)..[/quote']

 

They are about as common as a tank is today (or maybe around WW2), enough to be known and recognized and some units made exclusively of them but most are not. Rich nations field many, middle class nations field some, poor nations field few and while the individual can have one their is always a story involved in how (even if it is something as simply as a family heirloom). Being how many types of tanks are in the world and variants after how many years I don't think 10-20 base units is much. The only difference, I think, I'm presenting is that modifying and upgrading the units are easier then it is for tanks.

 

Players as adventures would fall into the 'story' category and while in a more military set game the suit will generally be owned by the army or mercenary unit they are attached to (unless they own the merc unit).

 

------

 

I was told to be careful with the point cost of the vehicle but Fantasy Hero has 2 systems same systems where a spells Real Cost is divided by 5 and I am using that as a base in the magic system. Also like the Chaos Blade system in the book I've decide to move away from a pre-generated spell list (I got to the E's in my list it was starting to get to me realizing how much more I had) and allow the player's to craft their own spells, with GM approval, like a mystic superhero.

 

One of my players showed interest in this however he wanted to play a character that was both a pilot and a tech to tinker with it. Talking with him I decided to remove Alchemy and Runecrafting from the overall 'magic' and allow everyone to pick it up. Unlike the magic system these formulas and engravings don't get the divide by five so they must be normally bought. These are hard to learn, understand and advance so while not rare not everyone knows them.

 

The common mage doesn't bother with Runecrafting or Alchemy because to their mind their spells can replicate the effects easier and better. Not all mage's believe this because no mage has been able to successfully duplicate the golemsuit as yet. Magic seems to be able to craft a Golem or a Living Golem, which many a mage scoff and say are better anyway, but the cost to create them compare to the cost of a suit is wildly different. So in the depths research continues on crafting a magical version of the suit and the power it will have if ever completed could turn the scales of any battle easily. But most simply hope to overcome the 'flaws' the suits have dealing with mages.

 

The suits will be bought with Character Points and any character to become a pilot must have Alchemical implants and Runecrafts placed on the skin. The process will actually reduce the Character's Stats (as the points for the ritual are moved to the Vehicle Perk) and worse yet his Characteristic Maxima is reduced as well (something to do with the surgery stealing a part of you lifeforce or some such hogwash, the surgeons always say its nothing but lies anyway).

 

Mage's can use the suit but costing character points means the mage is not using it for spells, also it means having some Alchemist and Runecrafter poking around in their insides, something they aren't keen on. Their have also been horror stories about mages getting the surgery and losing their magic altogether (Samus' best firend's wife's second cousin lost his ability to craft magic ain't no way I getting it done to me). While they can cast magic while in the suit mages find that any spell requiring Incantations can not be done, the suit is not flexible enough.

 

Also while it may be the materials of the suit, the Alchemical solutions or crystals, perhaps the Runes craved into the suit or all of the above or even none of it mages know two strange things: 1) Magic 'feels' deadened to them inside the armor, it is more difficult to summon and cast spells and 2) Mage's feel as if their lifespans shorten inside the suits and indeed they do. Every hour in the suit seems to take them one day closer to the Wheel of Reincarnation. Why and how this occurs no one knows but it is a fact and because of it only mages who are crazy, desperate, dying or those with nothing to lose pilot them. In fact Sora has a famous prison unit filled with mages that are pilots all attempting to earn freedom before death claims them.

[Stalin_McRally]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

Nice! like it alot, just make a necromantic golemsuit that uses trapped mage souls in some "life furnace" and im content.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Powered Suits as Vehicles

 

They are about as common as a tank is today (or maybe around WW2)' date=' enough to be known and recognized and some units made exclusively of them but most are not. Rich nations field many, middle class nations field some, poor nations field few and while the individual can have one their is always a story involved in how (even if it is something as simply as a family heirloom). Being how many types of tanks are in the world and variants after how many years I don't think 10-20 base units is much. The only difference, I think, I'm presenting is that modifying and upgrading the units are easier then it is for tanks. [/quote']

 

Are all the units of more or less equal power? Tanks advance, so I assume these will as well, with some older ones being clearly lower powered.

 

I was told to be careful with the point cost of the vehicle but Fantasy Hero has 2 systems same systems where a spells Real Cost is divided by 5 and I am using that as a base in the magic system. Also like the Chaos Blade system in the book I've decide to move away from a pre-generated spell list (I got to the E's in my list it was starting to get to me realizing how much more I had) and allow the player's to craft their own spells' date=' with GM approval, like a mystic superhero.[/quote']

 

Typically, the division is intended to make up for the fact that Wizards tend to make less use of free gear, and that most magic systems do not allow frameworks such as Variable Power Pools and Multipowers. I would not allow a Multipower (eg. an attacks multipower) in the Suits unless you will also allow them to the wizards for their spells. As well, if you make wizards limit their spells so they can't use Multiple Power Attacks, I would similarly limit the attacks in the Suits.

 

I'd say the most crucial thing to watch is Suit defenses. If no BOD gets through, the driver takes no STUN either. If BOD is too easy to get through, damaged suits will become a frustrating issue for the wearer to deal with.

 

One of my players showed interest in this however he wanted to play a character that was both a pilot and a tech to tinker with it. Talking with him I decided to remove Alchemy and Runecrafting from the overall 'magic' and allow everyone to pick it up. Unlike the magic system these formulas and engravings don't get the divide by five so they must be normally bought. These are hard to learn, understand and advance so while not rare not everyone knows them.

 

The common mage doesn't bother with Runecrafting or Alchemy because to their mind their spells can replicate the effects easier and better.

 

I suspect the common PC won't bother either - what can they do with Runecrafting or Alchemy that is worth spending 5x as many points on?

 

The suits will be bought with Character Points and any character to become a pilot must have Alchemical implants and Runecrafts placed on the skin. The process will actually reduce the Character's Stats (as the points for the ritual are moved to the Vehicle Perk) and worse yet his Characteristic Maxima is reduced as well (something to do with the surgery stealing a part of you lifeforce or some such hogwash' date=' the surgeons always say its nothing but lies anyway). [/quote']

 

I'd be careful with this. It sounds like the characters will be restricted in what they can have outside the suit, which will free up more points to buy the suit. Will this make them overpowered in the suit and useless when it's denied them? If they simply match other characters for power in the suit and will have access to the suit as much as the other characters will have access to their abilities, that should work. But if they're overpowered in the suit and underpowered outside of it, they will always either overshadow or be overshadowed by the other characters.

 

Mage's can use the suit but costing character points means the mage is not using it for spells' date=' also it means having some Alchemist and Runecrafter poking around in their insides, something they aren't keen on. Their have also been horror stories about mages getting the surgery and losing their magic altogether (Samus' best firend's wife's second cousin lost his ability to craft magic ain't no way I getting it done to me). While they can cast magic while in the suit mages find that any spell requiring Incantations can not be done, the suit is not flexible enough. [/quote']

 

Incantations or Gestures? Would the Wizard be allowed a limitation for those spells (ie "not in Suit") if he has a Suit he plans to use frequently? At the extreme, he might want a Multiform, changing forms by entering and exiting the suit, if some powers are only useful when he's in it and others only when he's outside.

 

Also while it may be the materials of the suit' date=' the Alchemical solutions or crystals, perhaps the Runes craved into the suit or all of the above or even none of it mages know two strange things: 1) Magic 'feels' deadened to them inside the armor, it is more difficult to summon and cast spells and 2) Mage's feel as if their lifespans shorten inside the suits and indeed they do. Every hour in the suit seems to take them one day closer to the Wheel of Reincarnation. Why and how this occurs no one knows but it is a fact and because of it only mages who are crazy, desperate, dying or those with nothing to lose pilot them. In fact Sora has a famous prison unit filled with mages that are pilots all attempting to earn freedom before death claims them.[/quote']

 

So, will this form more limitations for the wizard choosing to use the suit, making for characters who are very powerful, but burn out fairly quickly? hmmm...30 YO Mage can spend 3,650 hours in the Suit, becoming 40. How much time will he log in a typical campaign?

 

Are all these restrictions needed? As you say, the wizard in a suit will have to divide his points between magic and Suit, so he's already disadvantaged.